Women's Rights = Divorce Rate, New Debate Topic Options

[MissFits]

My mom did everyday.
I really make an effort to and I usually do a pretty good job.

[brooklyneast05]

i guess it depends on the people, and probably the job too. when something is stressing me out, i have a hard time leaving it anywhere

[MissFits]

Working at in a pharmacy can get really stressful when you get a lot of people coming in at once and you have to stay over your shift. It sucks, and it used to make me so mad. I guess at work I am like a different person. I am not there because I like it, I am there to make money. When I leave work I am so happy to be away from there that it melts away any bad mood. It's like a light switch for me, I am off at work and on at home.

If that makes any sense at all.

[Uronacid]

yeah but how often can someone leave their work related stress at the door?

Ugh... seriously... you can't just bottle it all up. Well, I have to carry my job home. I'm on call if they decide to call me.

[demolished]

Housewife with children has my total respect.

We need women to stand at home to watch the kids and monitor the house. =/

[jesusisthebestth...]

^what's ur opinion on what the rise of the "single mother" is caused by?

there are several reasons, most caused by american culture - which has so many outside forces influencing it. i think that there are more single moms now than ever because there is less emphasis on the importance of marriage...i dont know if there are statistics on this or anything, but most of the young women i know are running away from marriage, but not child bearing or child rearing.

[Kontroll]

Correlation does not mean causation.
Since you haven't really developed any sort of meaningful relationship between the two variables I would rather not comment. Altogether though, the premise appears quite absurd.

Nate, grow up. This is why we're having this discussion. To come down to a logical conclusion. Not for holier than thou assholes on their pedistals mocking people for no reason at all but to publically humiliate them. On the internet, I should add. Be real, dude. Give us a real f**king answer instead of your text book rhetoric. We're real people here, not a f**king college classroom. You don't have to put on an act.

[Spirited Away]

The rise of the "single mother" is not a result of feminism. The feminism movement is near its death. The number of feminist single moms is probably not that high.

Really? So you're saying that any movement that dies out eventually don't make any impact while at its height? So, something like impressionism faded out and gave way to post-impressionism means impressionism never inspired any other artists? I hope that's not what you're telling me, but I could be wrong.

To your understanding, what impact did feminism have on women? Or if you don't think it did anything, please explain why. Some evidence would be nice.

[Kontroll]

Nate's a pussy. Pussy, pussy, pussy!

I whole-heartedly agree with Josh.

[jesusisthebestth...]

Really? So you're saying that any movement that dies out eventually don't make any impact while at its height? So, something like impressionism faded out and gave way to post-impressionism means impressionism never inspired any other artists? I hope that's not what you're telling me, but I could be wrong.

To your understanding, what impact did feminism have on women? Or if you don't think it did anything, please explain why. Some evidence would be nice.

1. i said the feminist movement has had no affect on the increase in the number of single moms in america's present day society. i refuse to believe that the feminist movement is the reason why everywhere i turn there's another pregnant chick without a ring on her finger.

2. was impressionism a movement? a movement that changed the lives of all artists just as the feminist movement changed the lives of all women, resutlting in collective benefits for women all over the country? i dont understand why you're making a connection between impressionism in art and the feminist movement in life.

[brooklyneast05]

analogy

makes sense to me

[jesusisthebestth...]

^^^

i just dont like it when people compare art and life...but thats just my thing. it's not that the comparisons are futile and not that there is no clear correlation at times between the two ideas, i just prefer correlations between two real life situations...art is not real life to me, but again just personal opinion, it's another debate topic for a later time

[brooklyneast05]

it's comparing a movement to a movement though.
impressionism is real, the feminist movement is real.
i do not understand, but anyway, u don't think the feminist movement could have any affect whatsoever?

[deplorable]

feminist in the forum.

"Women do not have to sacrifice personhood if they are mothers. They do not have to sacrifice motherhood/marriage in order to be persons. Liberation was meant to expand women's opportunities, not to limit them. The self-esteem that has been found in new pursuits can also be found in mothering."

~Elain Heffner

enough said

[brooklyneast05]

it's not enough said, it's a quote, and this is a debate. how does that relate or not relate to divorce rate? what do YOU think?

[jesusisthebestth...]

it's comparing a movement to a movement though.
impressionism is real, the feminist movement is real.
i do not understand, but anyway, u don't think the feminist movement could have any affect whatsoever?

yea, though they both are movements they are movements of different types, it's like comparing WWI to the War in Iraq just because they are wars doesnt mean they will have the same affect on some topic, i cant think right now lol. you get it? but, anyway, to answer your question, i think the feminist movement intended in no way to limit the likelihood of socio-economic prosperity among women, i believe that being a single mother greatly damages a woman's likelihood of being socially and economically prosperous. therefore, i don't see the comparison...but we've totally re-vamped the debate topic, we're supposed to be comparing women's rights and divorce rates lol.

[Spirited Away]

1. i said the feminist movement has had no affect on the increase in the number of single moms in america's present day society. i refuse to believe that the feminist movement is the reason why everywhere i turn there's another pregnant chick without a ring on her finger.

2. was impressionism a movement? a movement that changed the lives of all artists just as the feminist movement changed the lives of all women, resutlting in collective benefits for women all over the country? i dont understand why you're making a connection between impressionism in art and the feminist movement in life.

1. You make it sound like being a single mom is a bad thing calling them "chicks" without rings on their fingers. Single moms generally don't fit that kind of degrading description. That's another story.

Feminism led to many things, but most important of all (imho): the recognition of "woman". Sojourner said it best: "If the first woman God ever made was strong enough to turn the world upside down all alone, these women together ought to be able to turn it back , and get it right side up again! And now they is asking to do it, the men better let them." This recognition is followed by women on jury duty, woman suffrage, and laws protecting women rights were established.

Fact: in 1900, two-thirds of divorce cases are initiated by the wife; a century earlier, most women lacked the right to sue and were hopelessly locked into bad marriages. (I practically copied and pasted this here from a source. You're more than welcome to research this for yourself)

Mel Krantzler wrote: "To say goodbye is to say hello ... hello to a new life - to a new, freer, more self-assured you. Hello to new ways of looking at the world and of relating to people. Your divorce can turn out to be the very best thing that ever happened to you."

What more do you need to understand that though feminism may not be the sole reason for the increase of single mom's or divorces, but it was a trigger for many societal changes we've seen so far.

2. Are you seriously asking me why made that analogy? You said feminism was a dying movement, not strong enough to make any impact on anything. So I used impressionism as an example of a movement that was thought to be useless and "avant-garde" and also died out quite quickly. However, it made such a strong impact that made critics eat their words.

I'm not making an example between art and life. The context is comparing a movement to a movement. I thought that was clear.

analogy

makes sense to me

Thanks. At least that made sense to someone else and not just me.

^^^

i just dont like it when people compare art and life...but thats just my thing. it's not that the comparisons are futile and not that there is no clear correlation at times between the two ideas, i just prefer correlations between two real life situations...art is not real life to me, but again just personal opinion, it's another debate topic for a later time

Again, not "art and life", but we're comparing two movements. Read within context and you'll understand the analogy.

yea, though they both are movements they are movements of different types, it's like comparing WWI to the War in Iraq just because they are wars doesnt mean they will have the same affect on some topic, i cant think right now lol. you get it? but, anyway, to answer your question, i think the feminist movement intended in no way to limit the likelihood of socio-economic prosperity among women, i believe that being a single mother greatly damages a woman's likelihood of being socially and economically prosperous. therefore, i don't see the comparison...but we've totally re-vamped the debate topic, we're supposed to be comparing women's rights and divorce rates lol.

Um, do you understand what the Impressionism movement was about? I'm not here to teach art history so I won't go into details, but it sounds like you don't see the correlation because you don't understand what the Impressionism movement what went on during that time. However, that itself is unimportant as I'm not here to compare the two in that way. The point was making comparision between two "dying movements" making huge impact in history, as oppose to you implying that a dying movement does not make any impact. Are we savvy?

Feminism help bring about change in how society perceive family. No one is saying that feminism affect the rise of single moms directly, I don't see why you seem to think that, but I hope it's clear now. However, I am saying that feminism brought about changes in policy, family structure...etc., enough to where I can rightly say that it must have indirectly brought on the effects that we're discussing.

[*CowerPointyObjects*]

It makes sense for the divorce rate to rise as women gain more freedoms, but I don't think that makes equality between the sexes wrong; it might suggest the opposite. There's no real reason to value marriage over everything else (leaving out the tangent about gay marriage I'm tempted to make); perhaps it's merely an indication that a new system is needed.

[MissHygienic]

Housewife with children has my total respect.

We need women to stand at home to watch the kids and monitor the house. =/

Disregarding personal choice, I see no reason why you are saying that there should be more women subjected to a life confined in the parameters of their property and a little mini-clone of themselves. Time and time again, we hear women bitching about lower wages because of their sex; they are not being treated equally; they are the lesser of man, yet women end up being housewives, effectively pulling themselves out of the work force, and to watch the kids and monitor the house. This is very clearly gender role separation?

There are many exceptions, and life isn't about fame or wealth, but this world could use more people working, instead of having them at home and thinking about reproducing over and over. This world is already crowded, and if there's one term I can put on housewives, it'd be "heavy consumer." What do they give back to the world? Especially to the women who have kids right after high school. I can't imagine these girls are experienced enough to maximize productivity.

I could see how "women's rights," as in women who go out and pursue a life other than being a housewife, is in correlation with divorce rate because they want equality, and by all means, I support it. I believe it's only a minor factor in divorce rates, however. In a broader aspect, it's mostly girls and boys who end up with the wrong people and learning later on that they made mistakes. Fun.

[jesusisthebestth...]

1. You make it sound like being a single mom is a bad thing calling them "chicks" without rings on their fingers. Single moms generally don't fit that kind of degrading description. That's another story.

take it however you'd like...i really don't care what connotation you see in the term chick. my feeling is simply that single moms have it harder than women without children and women who are in relationships with the father of their children and i don't think that is a change the feminist movement intended to bring about.

Feminism help bring about change in how society perceive family. No one is saying that feminism affect the rise of single moms directly, I don't see why you seem to think that, but I hope it's clear now. However, I am saying that feminism brought about changes in policy, family structure...etc., enough to where I can rightly say that it must have indirectly brought on the effects that we're discussing.

i said nothing about the feminist movement's affect on single moms directly or indirectly...i said it had no affect at all. there's the difference. i don't see how women receiving freedoms has led to conditions under which single mothers live these days and the increase in the number of divorces.

[Spirited Away]

1. take it however you'd like...i really don't care what connotation you see in the term chick. my feeling is simply that single moms have it harder than women without children and women who are in relationships with the father of their children and i don't think that is a change the feminist movement intended to bring about.

Did you enjoy ignoring the argument and facts presented? No matter intentions, one event can cause unintentional effects whether or not it wanted them. For example, a driver wanting to get to one destination never intented to collide with another driver or to cause additional traffic by being on the road, but he does anyway. Arguing for "intention" is moot at this point.


2. i said nothing about the feminist movement's affect on single moms directly or indirectly...i said it had no affect at all. there's the difference. i don't see how women receiving freedoms has led to conditions under which single mothers live these days and the increase in the number of divorces.

Where are your stats that feminist movement have no effect on the rise of single mothers? It's nice that you pointed out a difference, but it'll be nicer and more valid with statistics or some kind of evidence to prove your point.

Feminism isn't just about women's freedom. It's about empowering women to make choices for themselves (and not for the men "ruling" them) and so many others. EMPOWERING women comes before receiving women rights, as you may have noticed. The history of the women rights movement is hand in hand with feminism.

Again, it doesn't matter what you think or what you believe, please provide us with statistics or some source to back up your statements. If not, please don't discredit other views (that has some stats) based on your sole opinion. In a religious debate you might be able to get away with it, but facts can be accounted for in this type of discussion.

Disregarding personal choice, I see no reason why you are saying that there should be more women subjected to a life confined in the parameters of their property and a little mini-clone of themselves. Time and time again, we hear women bitching about lower wages because of their sex; they are not being treated equally; they are the lesser of man, yet women end up being housewives, effectively pulling themselves out of the work force, and to watch the kids and monitor the house. This is very clearly gender role separation?

There are many exceptions, and life isn't about fame or wealth, but this world could use more people working, instead of having them at home and thinking about reproducing over and over. This world is already crowded, and if there's one term I can put on housewives, it'd be "heavy consumer." What do they give back to the world? Especially to the women who have kids right after high school. I can't imagine these girls are experienced enough to maximize productivity.

I could see how "women's rights," as in women who go out and pursue a life other than being a housewife, is in correlation with divorce rate because they want equality, and by all means, I support it. I believe it's only a minor factor in divorce rates, however. In a broader aspect, it's mostly girls and boys who end up with the wrong people and learning later on that they made mistakes. Fun.

Nicely put.

[sheridan_whitesi...]

What is this workplace you are on about? I do believe, I, as a husband, have furnished you a place already, equipped with the finest granite and stainless steel. Now, to your place, and do what the Almighty Lord Jesus put you on earth to do. I feel rumblings in my stomach, for desserts of a round and crusty nature.

[demolished]

Disregarding personal choice, I see no reason why you are saying that there should be more women subjected to a life confined in the parameters of their property and a little mini-clone of themselves. Time and time again, we hear women bitching about lower wages because of their sex; they are not being treated equally; they are the lesser of man, yet women end up being housewives, effectively pulling themselves out of the work force, and to watch the kids and monitor the house. This is very clearly gender role separation?

I DO respect women as much as men in terms of power and wealth. There's no excuse for salaries reductions. Yes, women do bitch because they want to work. What's wrong with women being housewives ... when dad's at work ALREADY supporting the family?

My mom is a housewife, and I totally love her. She works hard to settle things down in a family of 7 members. She serves an inspiration role model for us, siblings. We were poor, not wealthy, and 1st generation of Asian American. Shouldn't mom be concern about their children who's growing up, learning, and becoming a young adult WHILE dad's at work SUPPORTING the family? Parents are responsible for their children. My mom does her job very well. My family is walking with big step to success, the American Dream, but we're not rich but we're trying to break through the social class. All my siblings graduated from school. my sister major in business, other one major in teaching & passionate about children, brother major in criminology but working as business claim adjustor, and brother major in business. if mom wasn't there for us, not being caution about us, not nagging the freak out of us, not annoying us as hell even though we hated her like a mother flippin bitch sometimes, not giving more-than enough attention and concern about us, we probably wouldn't be doing fine.


This is my reasons, my core value, argumentation of heart, and emotional appeals for stating my post earlier.

There are many exceptions, and life isn't about fame or wealth, but this world could use more people working, instead of having them at home and thinking about reproducing over and over. This world is already crowded, and if there's one term I can put on housewives, it'd be "heavy consumer." What do they give back to the world? Especially to the women who have kids right after high school. I can't imagine these girls are experienced enough to maximize productivity.

"Thinking about reproducing over and over" .... What the heck are you thinking? We ARE giving back to the world by teaching our children and leading them to better life than they did.



Think about what mother can do for the children to achieve and reach their potential? Children, now, are the future starting from today. And what happen to them reflect the society.

I could see how "women's rights," as in women who go out and pursue a life other than being a housewife, is in correlation with divorce rate because they want equality, and by all means, I support it. I believe it's only a minor factor in divorce rates, however. In a broader aspect, it's mostly girls and boys who end up with the wrong people and learning later on that they made mistakes. Fun.

I don't care if women go out to work OR MEN and not watch the dam children. It's their choice and what they want best for themselves or everyone.


and please ... think of this as a friendly talk. i'm not really debating

[MissHygienic]

I DO respect women as much as men in terms of power and wealth. There's no excuse for salaries reductions. Yes, women do bitch because they want to work. What's wrong with women being housewives ... when dad's at work ALREADY supporting the family?

My mom is a housewife, and I totally love her. She works hard to settle things down in a family of 7 members. She serves an inspiration role model for us, siblings. We were poor, not wealthy, and 1st generation of Asian American. Shouldn't mom be concern about their children who's growing up, learning, and becoming a young adult WHILE dad's at work SUPPORTING the family? Parents are responsible for their children. My mom does her job very well. My family is walking with big step to success, the American Dream, but we're not rich but we're trying to break through the social class. All my siblings graduated from school. my sister major in business, other one major in teaching & passionate about children, brother major in criminology but working as business claim adjustor, and brother major in business. if mom wasn't there for us, not being caution about us, not nagging the freak out of us, not annoying us as hell even though we hated her like a mother flippin bitch sometimes, not giving more-than enough attention and concern about us, we probably wouldn't be doing fine.
This is my reasons, my core value, argumentation of heart, and emotional appeals for stating my post earlier.

"Thinking about reproducing over and over" .... What the heck are you thinking? We ARE giving back to the world by teaching our children and leading them to better life than they did.

Think about what mother can do for the children to achieve and reach their potential? Children, now, are the future starting from today. And what happen to them reflect the society.
I don't care if women go out to work OR MEN and not watch the dam children. It's their choice and what they want best for themselves or everyone.

and please ... think of this as a friendly talk. i'm not really debating

Not to pull you away from your sweet reverie, here, but did you even take the time to analyze the points I made in my post? I did not say there was something wrong with women choosing to be housewives. I said that I did not understand why in God's name you would suggest that we need more women to "watch the kids and monitor the house." These were your words. I also did not really care to hear your life story, as it had nothing to do with the topic, anyway.

Since you had to share it, I have a few speculations of my own to invalidate your story. One of them being that you come from an Asian-American background, and I know that a lot of traditional Asian mothers feel as if they need to pressure their children to be the best. In your own words, you said that she nagged the hell out of you, because she was vicariously living through her children. Was she actually supporting you, or was she pushing you and your siblings to be what she never was? Go ahead and deny everything here, though, they're just some doubts I had.

One thing you cannot deny is that children do look up to their mothers as role models. Now, as for the mothers right out of high school who have a sugar-daddy, the mother's life decisions can be heavily influential to the child. "I don't have to do a lot; I will let my husband do everything and raise kids in hopes of them being mildly more useful than I was." Do you see the cycle here? In many cases, women will conceive children who will grow up to be housewives with little to no experience, and they will produce more kids who will grow up to be nothing but consumers in this world. It is not about majoring in business. You can major in any-f**king-thing you want, and it still might not get you anywhere.

What is this about "potential" and "future?" You're quite the optimistic one, aren't you? There is no logic in shoving the labor and "potential for success" onto your kids, if you are in no way successful yourself because it likely won't work out. Do you pay attention to global issues? Recycling, sewage issues, schools with less and less math teachers, overpopulation, homelessness. And you think it's a smarter idea to hope for the best that the future generation will take care of it. Why not promote the housewife lifestyle and let the men take care of things? No worries, even though women do make up more than 50 percent of the population. And there should be more housewives.

[demolished]

Not to pull you away from your sweet reverie, here, but did you even take the time to analyze the points I made in my post? I did not say there was something wrong with women choosing to be housewives. I said that I did not understand why in God's name you would suggest that we need more women to "watch the kids and monitor the house." These were your words. I also did not really care to hear your life story, as it had nothing to do with the topic, anyway.

One thing you cannot deny is that children do look up to their mothers as role models. Now, as for the mothers right out of high school who have a sugar-daddy, the mother's life decisions can be heavily influential to the child. "I don't have to do a lot; I will let my husband do everything and raise kids in hopes of them being mildly more useful than I was." Do you see the cycle here? In many cases, women will conceive children who will grow up to be housewives with little to no experience, and they will produce more kids who will grow up to be nothing but consumers in this world. It is not about majoring in business. You can major in any-f**king-thing you want, and it still might not get you anywhere.

My "life story" was the reason for "watch the kids and monitor the house". Earlier I stated this, "This is my reasons, my core value, argumentation of heart, and emotional appeals for stating my post earlier." i already explained the reasons why. Again, i also say, "I'm not really debating". I'm answering you, actually.

Of course you didn't say there was something wrong with women being housewives. i WAS TOTALLY AWARE OF THAT.


You made a claim that you cannot deny that children do look up to their mother as role model ... but i can deny your claim... i cannot deny my own mother. I say she serves as an inspirational role model for us, not mom serve as a role model for every child.

As for the mom with sugar-daddy, it's her fault for making a horrible decision. I quoted this earlier

I don't care if women go out to work OR MEN and not watch the dam children. It's their choice and what they want best for themselves or everyone.

What is this about "potential" and "future?" You're quite the optimistic one, aren't you? There is no logic in shoving the labor and "potential for success" onto your kids, if you are in no way successful yourself because it likely won't work out. Do you pay attention to global issues? Recycling, sewage issues, schools with less and less math teachers, overpopulation, homelessness. And you think it's a smarter idea to hope for the best that the future generation will take care of it. Why not promote the housewife lifestyle and let the men take care of things? No worries, even though women do make up more than 50 percent of the population. And there should be more housewives.

Um. shut the f**k up? Are you picking on me?

What are your solutions to the problem? We do NEED women to stay at home, but NOT ALL OF THEM! Look and read carefully. We know women traditionally stay at home watching the children. Again, it's their choice and what they want best for themselves or everyone.

and you're a f**king bitch. "There is no logic in shoving the labor and "potential for success" onto your kids, if you are in no way successful yourself because it likely won't work out.". My mom had no free education, is poor, and ... you dare to diss her? You cannot assume unsucessful mother makes unsucessful children, f**king dick shit.