bombings on japan, were the really needed Options

[Spirited Away]

So then back to the original topic, there were still Japanese of military importance who didn't want to surrender even after the bombings?

[ComradeRed]

Yes, a lieutenant in the Eastern District Army (the one that guarded over Tokyo), placed the Emperor in House Arrest for aobut one night, before the Emperor's agents managed to publicize his tapes anyways. The lieutenant committed ritual suicide. I saw a history thing on this.

[Spirited Away]

Commited suicide... Japanese's way of commiting suicide is... scary.

Anyway, so then the bombs did help to encourage Japan to surrender, right? Otherwise, there would still be a bloody resistance should the US decides to attack by land.

[ComradeRed]

No, if the US guaranteed the Emperor's position, he would've released the surrender tapes and they would've surrendered peacefully.

[Spirited Away]

No, if the US guaranteed the Emperor's position, he would've released the surrender tapes and they would've surrendered peacefully.

So then the country's itself was unstable (in the sense of government) because different groups of people wanted to do different things.

But then he did surrender and he's still Emperor. So what went wrong? I mean, I still feel that the bombs were justified.

[ComradeRed]

Justified, perhaps. Necessary, no.

[Spirited Away]

Justified, perhaps. Necessary, no.

Well, that's going to shut me up

[jaeman]

Nope! I guess they just wanted it to feel more dominant. Besides, they wasted money.

But I wouldn't know.

[*kryogenix*]

do u guys think the 2 bombs dropped on japan during WW2 were really needed?
i say no because they just killed innoc3nt people in those 2 citys and it left a perment mental damage on my grandma (im japanese)
so what do u guys think

Ah, personal bias. I have some personal bias too. My great grandparents were killed by the Japanese. My grandmother had to run to the mountains to escape the burning houses. They threw their dead bodies into the water wells.

You have to look at it from both sides. The Americans were trying to save lives. If the bombs weren't dropped, millions more would have died.

[stryker76]

i am very patriotic toward my country...not like most people because i also think that my country makes bad choice...one of which being the bombing of Japan. We say that we have to stop terrorism....well in order to do that we need to look at our selves first. I mean when the US bombed Japan we had no cause to bomb those cities. They had only innoccent people there....nothing else....and to justify our selves we teach our children that they diserved it.....well hmmmm ok what im about to say may offend some people but its an example only and im sorry if i do.
We the US maybe have diserved what happened on 9/11....i mean it was a big wake up call to america....and ya kno it was no different then when we bombed Japan....just in the fact that it happened to us and not someone else. America is nothing but on big double standard. It is ok for us to do to others but if they try or do the same to us..its like oh hell no.....America is as much a terrorist group for bombing japan as Al Quaeda is for attacking the TWC's.....

[Spirited Away]

I mean when the US bombed Japan we had no cause to bomb those cities. They had only innoccent people there....

To those who said that we should have bombed a military base instead of these two cities, PLEASE consider these:

During World War II, Hiroshima was a city with that contained the 2nd Army Headquarters, and one of the key storage and communication center.

As for Nagasaki, it was one of the largest sea ports responsible for various industries (ship, military equipments... etc).

The cities were not all that 'innocent'.

[*NatiMarie*]

I think it was unnecessary for the bombs to be placed...okay, maybe one atomic bomb if it was the final resolution, but placing two (the other in Nagasaki), right after the first one was placed was not a good thing to do. The japanese were clearly going to surrender after the first atomic bomb was placed since U.S. translaters had intercepted a Japanese message stated that the emperor was clear on the way to surrendering. So that's why I think the atomic bombs were unnecessary. Have a nice day.

[saintsaens]

from a lot of european countries' point of view, the pearl harbour bombings were necessary because otherwise the united states wouldn't have joined the war and without their help, hitler would have conquered half of europe.

the point of the debate isn't that anyway. it's asking whether the use of nuclear weapons was necessary to make the Japanese surrender. quite clearly, by the stage the bombs were dropped, the Japanese were not going to win the war. however, they would probably not have stopped fighting until each and every part of their military was destroyed. but are "time" and "inquisitiveness" justifiable enough reasons for killing totally innocent people? wasn't it more morally justifiable to kill each and every fighting soldier, rather than civilians, until they surrendered?

Theres honour in that. You risk your life for country.

Anyways, Japanese did suffer a great and tremendous loss, but war is a casualty. Theres nothing we can do about that. Just collateral damage.

[*kryogenix*]

I think it was unnecessary for the bombs to be placed...okay, maybe one atomic bomb if it was the final resolution, but placing two (the other in Nagasaki), right after the first one was placed was not a good thing to do. The japanese were clearly going to surrender after the first atomic bomb was placed since U.S. translaters had intercepted a Japanese message stated that the emperor was clear on the way to surrendering. So that's why I think the atomic bombs were unnecessary. Have a nice day.

They weren't placed, they were dropped. And the US wanted to be sure that the war would be over before Stalin's forces got to Japan.

[sadolakced acid]

no, the US just didn't want to invade japan. they invaded okinawa, and the civillians were waiting on the beach with sharpened bamboo sticks to "kill" the americans with

the japanesse were going to fight to the death. an invasion of the main island was slated to cost 1 million american lives and 75% civilian casualties.

plus, if the bombs hadn't been developed, the US invasion plan was this:::

at huntsville, al. they had already made tons of nerve gas. this was based on experience with okinawa.

they would first, gas the entire island and send troops in with gas masks to kill off the people who survived to resist.


the bombs were the lesser of two evils, but much lesser.

and the placing two was a bluff. the japanesse thought we only had one bomb. by dropping two, we tricked them into thinking we had a whole stockload. but all we had were two.

[JlIaTMK]

those werent needed

there was just more ppl killed and with death comes even more anger
and then the anger is passed back and forth

[*NatiMarie*]

They weren't placed, they were dropped. And the US wanted to be sure that the war would be over before Stalin's forces got to Japan.

Ok, I know the bombs were dropped...that's not the point. Yes the US wanted to be sure that the war would be over before Stalin's forces got into Japan, but why drop two bombs. The dropping of the second bomb was completely unnecessary. It killed many innocent civilians and some of the people who died included some American POWs. Dropping one bomb was good enough because the emperor of Japan at that time was planning to surrender (the Americans found out after intercepting many messages).

[Spirited Away]

Well, when Japan attacked Pearl, they killed many innocents, too. Why is that America must bare the burden of attacking "civilians" when Japan did just the same?

[*NatiMarie*]

Two wrongs don't make a right. Yeah, the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor because it was a military base. The Japanese were clearly aiming to hurt the soldiers and such (destroy aircraft and more, w/e), but the US was clearly aiming to hurt innocent civilians. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were cities with a bountiful amount of civilians, and was not a military base. There were many innocent people and the damage that the US did was to these civilians, not the Japanese military. And another thing about Pearl Harbor, it was clearly evident that FDR knew that the attack was coming but didn't do anything about it. It's partly his fault for caring more about the war in Europe than worrying about other enemies.

[Spirited Away]

Actually, there was NO declaration of WAR until the attack ended. And if you've read some earlier posts, you would know that Hiroshima and Nagasaki are not all that "innocent".

To those who said that we should have bombed a military base instead of these two cities, PLEASE consider these:

During World War II, Hiroshima was a city with that contained the 2nd Army Headquarters, and one of the key storage and communication center.

As for Nagasaki, it was one of the largest sea ports responsible for various industries (ship, military equipments... etc).

Edit:: and it was a wrong that was 'justified'.

[*NatiMarie*]

Still...why the need to bomb Nagasaki. Why couldn't the US wait for the call of surrender. They bombed Nagasaki 2 days later.

Kryogenix stated:They weren't placed, they were dropped. And the US wanted to be sure that the war would be over before Stalin's forces got to Japan.

--Well Stalin then declared war on Japan, and he then launched an invasion of Manchuria. So eventually, Stalin's forces did get to Japan

[Spirited Away]

Still...why the need to bomb Nagasaki. Why couldn't the US wait for the call of surrender. They bombed Nagasaki 2 days later.

Kryogenix stated:They weren't placed, they were dropped. And the US wanted to be sure that the war would be over before Stalin's forces got to Japan.

--Well Stalin then declared war on Japan, and he then launched an invasion of Manchuria. So eventually, Stalin's forces did get to Japan

ComradeRed told me that basically (I think) that the US needed to ensure that the Emperor would stay Emperor or else there wouldn't be a (quick) surrender ( ?).

First of all, they were the enemy, part of the Axis, why should they be asking conditions for surrender? They certainly were not in a position to ask any demands.

Second, not only were we faced with War, but also a our relationship with Russia was wavering. Japan was ready for a bloody confrontation in their country and if we had waited and Japan did not surrender, there would be more casualities and damage than the results of the two bombs combined.

Imagine a full scale attack on Japan by Russia and the US forces combined; imagine the US and Russia duking out their difference on Japanese soil...

We needed to ensure surrender, not just guess that they would surrender, and we needed to show Russia that we weren't afraid to use a WMD.

[*NatiMarie*]

Quote: ComradeRed told me that basically (I think) that the US needed to ensure that the Emperor would stay Emperor or else there wouldn't be a (quick) surrender ( ?).

The US wanted the Emperor to drop from being emperor. The US were asking for heavy demands and of course Japan wasn't going to give in.
There's more but i forgot

[*kryogenix*]

Still...why the need to bomb Nagasaki. Why couldn't the US wait for the call of surrender. They bombed Nagasaki 2 days later.

Kryogenix stated:They weren't placed, they were dropped. And the US wanted to be sure that the war would be over before Stalin's forces got to Japan.

--Well Stalin then declared war on Japan, and he then launched an invasion of Manchuria. So eventually, Stalin's forces did get to Japan

The US wanted the Japanese to surrender ASAP. As you pointed out, Manchuria was invaded. Though not the same as invading the Japanese Islands, it still meant that Stalin was on the path to Japan. The US needed to end the war quick, or we might have been faced with Communist Japan.

[Spirited Away]

The US wanted the Emperor to drop from being emperor. The US were asking for heavy demands and of course Japan wasn't going to give in.
There's more but i forgot

The Japanese was in no position to make demands. They were the enemy; they chose to be the enemy; and after Pearl, they shouldn't even be thinking about making demands.

We were generous to let them keep their Emperor... of course that generosity came from a selfish motive, but we were still quite generous.