Is homosexuality determined at birth, or is it a choice? Options

[MissFits]

It can take years for things like food and drug allergies to manifest, so even though that's always been in your body it isn't always apparent. Same concept for gay people.

It's not a learned behavior. There are things that you might identify with, but it doesn't mean that they taught you to be gay.

[brooklyneast05]

It's not a learned behavior.

u state it like it's a fact

[Joss-eh-lime]

yeah, it's definitely a choice.
whether conscious or subconscious, its a choice to live a lifestyle that pretty much goes against nature.

[MissFits]

u state it like it's a fact

I believe this very strongly. I know it's not a learned behavior.

yeah, it's definitely a choice.
whether conscious or subconscious, its a choice to live a lifestyle that pretty much goes against nature.

How does that go against nature if animals do it?

[brooklyneast05]

I believe this very strongly. I know it's not a learned behavior.
How does that go against nature if animals do it?

how do u know it's not?

[MissFits]

Because it happens naturally in nature.

No matter how many gay people a dog is surrounded by, it will never learn to be gay. A dog, or a monkey, will be gay because they are wired that way. Some people are wired that same way.

[brooklyneast05]

we aren't dogs
we aren't talking about if homosexuality is a choice for dogs
we're talking about humans

what's normal for an animal isn't necessarily normal for a human, and they often do things for different reasons than humans. ever heard of male dogs mounting each other as a way of showing dominance? not necessarily for sexual pleasure. just because a dog performs a "homosexual act" doesn't mean that dog is gay, or that it prefers male dogs, because the same dog would probably do the same thing with a female. it's ridiculous to base ur opinion off what animals do, because sexual orientation in animals and sexual orientation in humans are completely different.

[MissFits]

But, you are saying it is a learned behavior. That's not possible if animals don't learn it. Even some pigs are gay, and they are the closest thing to humans in the animal world. Something like 3 or 4 chromosomes off.

Anyhoo. Scientist are starting to find that they can detect hormonal imbalances in the womb (I believe it was stated previously in this post). They are actually trying to cure being gay. They wouldn't be able to do that if it were a learned behavior.

[*Insurmountable*]

we aren't dogs
we aren't talking about if homosexuality is a choice for dogs
we're talking about humans

what's normal for an animal isn't necessarily normal for a human, and they often do things for different reasons than humans. ever heard of male dogs mounting each other as a way of showing dominance? not necessarily for sexual pleasure. just because a dog performs a "homosexual act" doesn't mean that dog is gay, or that it prefers male dogs, because the same dog would probably do the same thing with a female. it's ridiculous to base ur opinion off what animals do, because sexual orientation in animals and sexual orientation in humans are completely different.

omfg, thank you!


Personally I think its by the experiences you go through in life that kind of affect what orientation you are. I mean think about it.

A woman is raped by a guy she may have been closed to and once straight but after so a traumatic trauma she just doesn't want to be with men or trust them because something like that happened so she turns over to women because it seems like she can trust them more.

I'm no ignorant, but I can't possibly understand how the hell theres a gay gene.

[brooklyneast05]

But, you are saying it is a learned behavior. That's not possible if animals don't learn it. Even some pigs are gay, and they are the closest thing to humans in the animal world. Something like 3 or 4 chromosomes off.

Anyhoo. Scientist are starting to find that they can detect hormonal imbalances in the womb (I believe it was stated previously in this post). They are actually trying to cure being gay. They wouldn't be able to do that if it were a learned behavior.

^ so ur saying being gay is something that needs to be cured? it's a disease?


once again, just because an animal engages in a homosexual act doesn't mean that animal is gay. it doesn't go around looking for only same sex partners. i don't care what pigs do, WE AREN'T PIGS. pigs have completely different lifestyles than humans. don't u see a difference between homosexuality in animals and humans? are our chromosomes similar? yeah. is anything else in our lifestyle similar? no not really

I'm no ignorant, but I can't possibly understand how the hell theres a gay gene.

me eitherrrrrrrrr

[MissFits]

I am not saying that, scientist are saying that.

Don't kill the messenger, but being gay is not really accepted in America, so of course they want to "fix" all gay people.

[*Uronacid*]

OMFG your ignorant at the fact that you really think hes serious..
Did you happen to miss this post?
Its a choice.
I don't see how the hell it can be determined at birth o_O *baby comes out of vagina in doctors hands* Oh here you go you have a new gay baby boy, congratulations.

LMAO

I am not saying that, scientist are saying that.

Don't kill the messenger, but being gay is not really accepted in America, so of course they want to "fix" all gay people.

Alright, I'll stop acting Chinese, and tell you off. You are an ignorant bitch. Stop it already. Gay people should stop trying to press this "I'm born gay" issue, and just accept that they want to be gay. I personally could care less if you or anyone you know is a homosexual. In fact, I don't mind homosexuals at all. At the same time, when in Rome. You don't goto the crypts and tell them your a blood. You play along, and try your best to fit in so you don't get your ass kicked. The only point I'm trying to make in saying this is:

If your going to be some flamboyant homosexual with tight pants and a pink shirt then you should just accept the fact that society doesn't take well to people who are clearly standing out. Why do you think people hang together in groups? Because they have similar ideas, they compliment each other. A flamboyant homosexual with a bunch of jocks would just seem out of place because it is out of place. They aren't going to accept this queer kid with a lisp. It's not because he's gay, it's just because he's a fucking alien to them.

Jeez, if you gay people want to fit in and hang out and be accepted by everyone then don't act like women because you're not going to fit in. I say this is because it is the reason people are bring up this whole "determined at birth issue". They don't want to accept that they made the choice to be different. They just want to prove they were born this way so they blame it on something that's not their fault. If they do this, people will have to "accept" them or become "racist". Just fucking admit to wanting the dick whether it's subconscious or not.

Now back to our regularly scheduled program.

1.

My first point, The articles you're talking about clearly state that their research into homosexuality being a "birth defect" are no-where near complete or close to proving any theory anyone might have about sexual orientation being determined in the womb. The very last paragraph in the article even states this:

"There are plenty of gay men who are first-borns, many straight men with older brothers and many women whose fingers give no clue to their sexual orientation."

In this Breedlove (the doctor who did this research) practically says, "My research doesn't mean shit at this point so don't take it to seriously right now." He has no proof that sexual orientation is determined by the hormones.

Androgen (The hormone that he believes may be the cause of homosexuality.) causes abnormalities in finger growth among men and is exposed more and more to fetuses as the number of child births in a single womb increase. There is no accurate way to measure exactly how much of this hormone a fetus is exposed to. Therefore he uses there finger size and number of siblings from a womb to determine an estimate.

Essentially, The final paragraph says that he is no where near proving this theory even though he would like to think it's true and finds it very fascinating that it could be.

In conclusion to this point, just because research is being done doesn't mean that it's complete. Just because someone is testing a theory doesn't mean that that theory is true. Stop throwing it in our faces that research is being done. We know it's being done, and we're fairly certain that it's going to be a waste of time. Don't base your argument on this vague bit of research. Fuck your research you ignorant little girl.

2.

My second point, just because a few animals fuck doesn't mean that homosexuality is determined at birth. Have you seen a dog that only fucks male dogs? I highly doubt it. What makes you think it's not just a stupid horny animal that wants to have sex with another animal regardless of it's sex. Men do that in prison all the time. They just want to use their fuck sticks.

Also, I have yet to see a "gay" bug... Hold up... Wait, thank you google...

3.

Thirdly, I would like to know:
If you think homosexuality is determined in genes. How would this gene pass itself on if caused an individual to have no desire to reproduce?

[NoSex]

^ so ur saying being gay is something that needs to be cured? it's a disease?
once again, just because an animal engages in a homosexual act doesn't mean that animal is gay. it doesn't go around looking for only same sex partners. i don't care what pigs do, WE AREN'T PIGS. pigs have completely different lifestyles than humans. don't u see a difference between homosexuality in animals and humans? are our chromosomes similar? yeah. is anything else in our lifestyle similar? no not really
me eitherrrrrrrrr

Actually, it has been observed in the laboratory and in nature that hundreds and hundreds of different animal species exhibit exclusive homosexual preference. This is to say that animals do not merely exhibit homosexual behavior. Rather, there are animals who are exclusively attracted to the same sex, despite all other variables being reasonably considered. Homosexuality is a natural phenomena. Given our observations and our knowledge of neurological functions, animals do not have a choice in regards to their sexual orientation.

We are more like animals than not. f**k, we are animals. Insofar as all the science suggests, sexual orientation is not a choice.

[*Uronacid*]

Actually, it has been observed in the laboratory and in nature that hundreds and hundreds of different animal species exhibit exclusive homosexual preference. This is to say that animals do not merely exhibit homosexual behavior. Rather, there are animals who are exclusively attracted to the same sex, despite all other variables being reasonably considered. Homosexuality is a natural phenomena. Given our observations and our knowledge of neurological functions, animals do not have a choice in regards to their sexual orientation.

We are more like animals than not. f**k, we are animals. Insofar as all the science suggests, sexual orientation is not a choice.

Many of the animals they talk about are animals that choose a mate, stick with it, and move on after their homosexual relationships. They are only exclusive for periods of time. Either way, these animals aren't able to be watched and are also suspected to have intercourse with the opposite sex too. For you to say that animals partake in exclusive homosexual relationships as if they do it over the course of their entire life is withholding the actual truth.

http://books.google.com/books?id=w76at4mOW...igEZNg#PPA50,M1

[*CowerPointyObjects*]

I'm no ignorant, but I can't possibly understand how the hell theres a gay gene.

Okay, so you're just closed-minded, then.

Josh, I am revolted that you are still spewing your shit in this topic after all these months. I should report you for what you said to that girl a couple of posts ago, too. Not to mention your racist comments. Holy shit, now I'm actually going to report you because you never cease to be a nasty little bugger.

Gay people should stop trying to press this "I'm born gay" issue, and just accept that they want to be gay. I personally could care less if you or anyone you know is a homosexual. In fact, I don't mind homosexuals at all. At the same time, when in Rome. You don't goto the crypts and tell them your a blood. You play along, and try your best to fit in so you don't get your ass kicked. The only point I'm trying to make in saying this is:

If your going to be some flamboyant homosexual with tight pants and a pink shirt then you should just accept the fact that society doesn't take well to people who are clearly standing out. Why do you think people hang together in groups? Because they have similar ideas, they compliment each other. A flamboyant homosexual with a bunch of jocks would just seem out of place because it is out of place. They aren't going to accept this queer kid with a lisp. It's not because he's gay, it's just because he's a f**king alien to them.

Please, make a less rational point next time. In what universe does it make sense to say that being gay is a choice because flamboyant gays don't fit in with jocks? First off, not every football player in existence is a narrow minded jackass; some actually have gay friends. Secondly, are you trying to suggest that they're trying to get mainstream society to reject them? Because that's just silly. As far as I can tell from your indecipherable bullshit about the blood and crypts, you're disproving your own 'point.' People don't try not to fit in, so it must be natural for them not to. By saying, "you play along, and try your best to fit in so you don't get your ass kicked," you're suggesting that homosexuals would actually have to play along to seem straight, which would make it a natural thing and not a choice, because in what way does it make sense to suggest that someone should try really hard not to fit in as they simultaneously pretend they do? I cannot believe how dense you are.

[brooklyneast05]

Okay, so you're just closed-minded, then.

Josh, I am revolted that you are still spewing your shitin this topic after all these months.

aug 27th through sept 23rd = "all these months"

geez josh, so many months u've been spewing ur shit in this topic


i'm so f**king tired
ill be back in the morning with a good post on this topic perhaps
i still don't think it's "determined at birth"

[*CowerPointyObjects*]

Who are you?

And by 'all these months,' I obviously don't mean this literal thread. There used to be a similar one or something. One way or another, we've been down this road before. But yeah, same shit spewed.

[brooklyneast05]

Who are you?

And by 'all these months,' I obviously don't mean this literal thread. There used to be a similar one or something. One way or another, we've been down this road before. But yeah, same shit spewed.

oh i get what u mean now
i only thought that since u said "in this topic"

and im jc, why?
who are u

[*Sandraaa*]

Can we all try to be civil and stop resorting to insults? It's called DEBATE. We're bound to have different opinions. With this said, Josh, you've been verbally warned.

[*Uronacid*]

Okay, so you're just closed-minded, then.

Josh, I am revolted that you are still spewing your shit in this topic after all these months. I should report you for what you said to that girl a couple of posts ago, too. Not to mention your racist comments. Holy shit, now I'm actually going to report you because you never cease to be a nasty little bugger.
Please, make a less rational point next time. In what universe does it make sense to say that being gay is a choice because flamboyant gays don't fit in with jocks? First off, not every football player in existence is a narrow minded jackass; some actually have gay friends. Secondly, are you trying to suggest that they're trying to get mainstream society to reject them? Because that's just silly. As far as I can tell from your indecipherable bullshit about the blood and crypts, you're disproving your own 'point.' People don't try not to fit in, so it must be natural for them not to. By saying, "you play along, and try your best to fit in so you don't get your ass kicked," you're suggesting that homosexuals would actually have to play along to seem straight, which would make it a natural thing and not a choice, because in what way does it make sense to suggest that someone should try really hard not to fit in as they simultaneously pretend they do? I cannot believe how dense you are.

So, you reported me for my opinion in a debate. Wow, you're 18 years old. Are you still in the "I'm gonna' tell the teacher on you!" phase? When are you going to learn that I don't give a fuck. Hey, while you're out there telling on me for my "ignorant" opinion why don't you go fuck yourself with a tampon. Tell them I said you're a cunt too. Oh, and would you like some cheese with that whine? xD

Also, I'm sorry it was so confusing for you. I was merely saying that if you're going to be a flamboyant gay then the chances of not being accepted are likely to be very high because barely anyone relate to your lifestyle.

I guess I feel like a large percentage of these flamboyant gays who aren't "accepted" want to blame it on genes or birth so they can place the fault of not being accepted on something other than themselves. I think that these "extreme" homosexuals should just accept the fact that many people aren't going to accept them because they are so blatantly different. I'll admit, the bloods and the crypts were extreme, but meh... I like extreme.

I'll try to be less extreme for your sake, sense you don't seem to understand. I'm sure the people who weren't going out of their way to tear my post to shreds would have understood it.

I'm sorry, a flamboyant gay probably wouldn't get accepted by Jocks. Not all Jocks are the same. I agree, but in general you aren't accepted by groups you cannot relate to (this includes myself).

I apologize for being such a narrow minded idiot. I'll tip toe around every bush I see from now on. Try not to put words in my mouth next time. You should probably stop shoving that stick up your ass. I've heard that if you shove it up to far, internal bleeding may occur. That may not be your period blood when your taking a shit. On the other hand and based upon the majority of your posts, you may just be on an eternal menstrual phase. Either way, you should definitely consult a doctor. ;]

I am revolted... no I'm not. I'm just laughing at you for being so upset. Oh, before you tell me you aren't upset and that you don't care, I guess I assumed you were upset because you took the time to sit there and tell me how insanely revolted you were.

Your favorite black homosexual,

Josh ????

oh i get what u mean now
i only thought that since u said "in this topic"

and im jc, why?
who are u

She is Menstruation. Find it in the dictionary, you'll see her face even though it's not in her profile. Watch out, she'll tear your bloody head off.

I am menstruation. No one rules the mencese like me; not this fuck, none of you little fucks out there. I AM THE CATAMENIA COMMANDER! When it comes down to takin' care of business, here's what I do. I grab it...then I put on my nose like this...and im like, "OH youz little fuck..."

^Click the tiny purple arrow to see where she wrote it.

Can we all try to be civil and stop resorting to insults? It's called DEBATE. We're bound to have different opinions. With this said, Josh, you've been verbally warned.

I was only playin... xD

[*Steven*]

Cower if you're going to report a post for being misguided and using mean words, you should probably make sure that you take out all your cussing and insults as well, because that just makes you look foolish.

[*Sandraaa*]

Steven, I fail to see where Cower used insults.

[*Steven*]

My bad, but if you're that offended by what he's saying, yet you still mention that he's "spewing shit" multiple times, w/e imo.

[*Sandraaa*]

I verbally warned him for the bitch comment not his opinion. I can warn someone for their opinions ...

[*Steven*]

I'm not talking about you sandra.