jocker clusterf**k, damn. Options

[*Steven*]

It would, however, have been nice to simply site it out of politeness, even if it's something nice and small at the far bottom left corner of the screen.

I don't code, simply because I know nothing about it.

But I guess, to each his own.

[*Uronacid*]

It would, however, have been nice to simply site it out of politeness, even if it's something nice and small at the far bottom left corner of the screen.

I don't code, simply because I know nothing about it.

But I guess, to each his own.

Alright, I know a little bit about website coding. Enough to take a layout someone made, and change all the pictures to make it look different. Yeah, I'm not going to advertise it as my own on my own website, but I'm not going to advertise it as someone else's either. People can assume that I made it if they want, but I'm not going to turn my personal site into an advertisement.

It seems like that's what these people consider jocking. People Jock all the time. I Jocked an entire corporate IM client/server application for my company network, and you know what... MY COMPANY LOVED ME FOR IT.

[*Steven*]

Fair enough. I haven't checked to see whether it's the exact same or not, but either way it's not my issue. I'm merely arguing the point for argument's sake.

[*Uronacid*]

Fair enough. I haven't checked to see whether it's the exact same or not, but either way it's not my issue. I'm merely arguing the point for argument's sake.

I understand, don't worry. It seems as if you just trying to see both sides of the argument. I don't believe you're siding with anyone. You just seem bored. xD

[*Steven*]

Work.


I love flaming people, especially if I can find a very minuscule reason to justify the flaming.

[*tripvertigo*]

time to add my 2 cents into this..

there's a difference between borrowing/stealing someones programming and then stealing their css.

Css/styling has to do with your creativity. Programming... there's only really one or two ways to code certain functionality, and yes i agree that it isnt really a big deal amongst programmers to steal source code if it has to do with really advanced stuff, but then again, that is WHY hey have OPEN source scripts and modules you can use for that kind of stuff, so you shouldnt really have to steal someones personal code anyawy.


styling/placement/composition is another thing entirely. this girl stole the creative part of his page, and just switched out the colors and pictures... that's just foul.

[*Uronacid*]

Steve, I totally relate to you.

time to add my 2 cents into this..

there's a difference between borrowing/stealing someones programming and then stealing their css.

Css/styling has to do with your creativity. Programming... there's only really one or two ways to code certain functionality, and yes i agree that it isnt really a big deal amongst programmers to steal source code if it has to do with really advanced stuff, but then again, that is WHY hey have OPEN source scripts and modules you can use for that kind of stuff, so you shouldnt really have to steal someones personal code anyawy.
styling/placement/composition is another thing entirely. this girl stole the creative part of his page, and just switched out the colors and pictures... that's just foul.

Oh my god... you are the most ignorant little bitch... ever... IN THE HISTORY OF THE UNIVERSE. Hahahahhahahah, do you know how difficult programming is? Do you know how creative you must be to develop the complex mathematical formulas behind web browsers that are used to read your shitty CSS programming? Do you know how creative the person who invented the JPEG, PNG, or GIF compression methods had to be. You are an insult to all computer users. There is not one area of technology that is less creative than another. They are all a form of art regardless of your narrow minded opinion. Your CSS and Images are nothing but a shell on top of masses of masses of programming that wouldn't exist without the creative people who programmed it. I'm not saying that either of these area's in technology are more important than one another, but I am saying that you just made an incredibly ignorant statement.

There is no difference between using code or using graphics or using someones open source programming. It's the fucking internet. If you don't encrypt what you made so that it won't be stolen or purchase a copyrighted logo then you're going to have to suck it up. You're putting it out there for everyone to use. If you don't like it then suck a big donkey dick because it's never going to change. The only thing you can do is accept things the way you are, and be happy that you can play with CSS in the first place.

Who cares if some douche bag in taiwan is using your CSS and graphics. You're dumb for being upset about it. Honestly, what credit is he getting?

[*tripvertigo*]

um.. okay i tried to be nice and i was basically agreeing with both sides, but if you wanna be a total douchebag about it:

do i know how difficult progamming is? yes. why? im a programmer. and i'm a designer, so i also know how difficult it is to create an artistic concept.

math has nothing to do with creativity, sorry to break it to you. if it did, maybe there wouldnt be a need for designers and developers. you'd just have developers doing all the work, wouldnt you?

and no... just because you put something on the internet, does not mean you're putting it there for everyone to use.

frankie didnt "accept" the fact that some people are going to be total asswipes and steal his creative content from his site, nor did he suck a big donkey dick and look where it got him. she changed the damned layout. so that entire argument is just irrelevant at this point.


and to reiterate, i said yes... amongst programmers/developers its usually okay to borrow certain parts of code from each other, but amongst designers it is not. there's a difference between the two.

even if two programmers sit down and program a part of the site without talking to each other or without borrowing bits of code from somewhere else, chances are it's going to turn out relatively the same way.

you put two designers in separate rooms and tell them to make comps for a site, it's going to look way different. obviously.

put a programmer in front of a computer, open up photoshop and tell him to make a comp for the same site, and it's going to look like shit.

put a designer in front of a computer and tell them to program somethin, and chances are he or she wont even know where to begin.

[*Uronacid*]

um.. okay i tried to be nice and i was basically agreeing with both sides, but if you wanna be a total douchebag about it:

do i know how difficult programming is? yes. why? im a programmer. and i'm a designer, so i also know how difficult it is to create an artistic concept.

math has nothing to do with creativity, sorry to break it to you. if it did, maybe there wouldn't be a need for designers and developers. you'd just have developers doing all the work, wouldn't you?

and no... just because you put something on the internet, does not mean you're putting it there for everyone to use.

frankie didnt "accept" the fact that some people are going to be total asswipes and steal his creative content from his site, nor did he suck a big donkey dick and look where it got him. she changed the damned layout. so that entire argument is just irrelevant at this point.
and to reiterate, i said yes... amongst programmers/developers its usually okay to borrow certain parts of code from each other, but amongst designers it is not. there's a difference between the two.

even if two programmers sit down and program a part of the site without talking to each other or without borrowing bits of code from somewhere else, chances are it's going to turn out relatively the same way.

you put two designers in separate rooms and tell them to make comps for a site, it's going to look way different. obviously.

put a programmer in front of a computer, open up photoshop and tell him to make a comp for the same site, and it's going to look like shit.

put a designer in front of a computer and tell them to program somethin, and chances are he or she wont even know where to begin.

HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH. I love this site. Alright, you're wrong. You are so wrong. Wrong wrong wrong wrong. I'll prove it.

There is creativity in math, you're just to ignorant to see it. Everything in this world is math, the creativity comes in the code. Creativity doesn't have to be visual, you can be creative and come up with a better way to do things via a programming language.

Alright.. fine you're right... the two worlds are different. Designers are bitchy little queers(frank, is not just a queer, I have no problem with queers, he's a little bitchy one.) who are just pathetically trying to inch their way up the social scale tooth and nail. Programmers share ideas to make the world a better place (selfless). Designers are just selfish little fuckers who expect no-one to touch the things that they publicly paste all over the web...

I want to meet gay programmers... I bet they aren't nearly as bad. I bet I would love them. I would be gay for them.

[1angel3]

Was that an exaggeration?

No, he really really has an popular site.

[Detective]

What's going to happened when myspace becomes a thing in the past?

[1angel3]

What's going to happened when myspace becomes a thing in the past?

Good question, I don't think people could live, honestly.

[*tripvertigo*]

ok i dont really understand why you're being an ass this point, unless its to just be an ass, but i basically did agree with both sides. i guess that makes me an ignorant bitch? yes, math is all around the world, but artists and designers dont exactly have to DO any math or have to worry about syntax when they're creating art. I dont think Im giving programmers any less credit, because I do agree that obviously without them there wouldnt be things like photoshop for designers to use. but im just saying that, fine, it's common for programmers to borrow source code from other sites. but its basically taboo amongst designers. a design or piece of art is basically an extension of the designer or artist themselves. it's something that came from their personality. that's why we dont really appreciate when others just steal it and basically change the colors and pictures. the composite is basically the same. the concept is the same.


Math is definitive. Art isn't. what's 1+1? 2. it's never going to be 3 just because you're feeling creative. Relating the two is just retarded.

Putting something on the internet doesnt give everyone free reign to download it and change it, no matter what it is (code, or design). I'm just saying that amongst programmers it's more widely acceptable than designers. If you saw something at a museum, i doubt you'd think it'd be okay to take it off the wall, cut out the main elements of the piece, and glue your own shit on it. I don't see how something being on the internet is any different

[*alovesopure*]

ok i dont really understand why you're being an ass this point, unless its to just be an ass

Yeah, that is why. He just does it to do it. No real reason, pay him no mind.

[*ersatz*]

Josh, the difference is when you use someone's code for programming, you are not going around saying, "I made this, it is my artistic venture" like one is when they jock something. You're just using it. And designers can USE other peoples' things too; they may look at the css and use it as a template for their own, or a guide if they are confused on something, but what that person did to Frankie's is different than that...it wasn't for efficiency. The person didn't know what to do and literally colored over Frankie's main image (you can see it on the left where they did) and put a different picture. Everything else is exactly the same. When designers make something like that and put it on their own site, it's a showcase. Yes I understand things like that happen when you put things on the internet, but it's really quite mean of someone to do, and most times people will simply ask the person to take it down. If they don't listen, that's when they get flamed. That's their own fault.

[mysticalazxn]

i steal your xanga layout before and that didn't went well.
The only thing that is copyable is the code but the format, color, graphic, font size and content have to be different. But once you learn complicated code no one know where it start and where it end.

[RAWRstephishere]

haha.

pwnage.

[*Uronacid*]

Josh, the difference is when you use someone's code for programming, you are not going around saying, "I made this, it is my artistic venture" like one is when they jock something. You're just using it. And designers can USE other peoples' things too; they may look at the css and use it as a template for their own, or a guide if they are confused on something, but what that person did to Frankie's is different than that...it wasn't for efficiency. The person didn't know what to do and literally colored over Frankie's main image (you can see it on the left where they did) and put a different picture. Everything else is exactly the same. When designers make something like that and put it on their own site, it's a showcase. Yes I understand things like that happen when you put things on the internet, but it's really quite mean of someone to do, and most times people will simply ask the person to take it down. If they don't listen, that's when they get flamed. That's their own fault.

Alright I understand what you're saying, but my argument is: Why do you care? If you paste something on the internet for all to see, you have to realize that it's also a free ticket for all to use regardless of what it is. When you guys get real jobs you're going to find yourself jocking pictures and code all the time. Especially if you get into graphic design. Yeah, you're going to make blends, vectors, and own stuff too, but things will be thrown at you so fast that there will be times when you have to make a quick thing that looks good and you don't have time to create your own work of art. It may be the coding, it may be the images... if they aren't copyrighted, you're going to take them, because it's your job to take them.

The real world is much much MUCH different than createblog (obviously). Right now you guys are all out there trying to find yourselves and be INDIVIDUALS (the big thing right now is to be original). When someone "steals" you're work it's like they are taking something that is apart of you and saying that it's apart of them. It it's like they are taking the thing that you created, the thing that says "This is ME" written all over it and saying it is them. I know what it's like. I'm a designer too. I'm extremely good at photoshop. I'm probably better than most of you. I only went into IT because being a designer is shit money and the jobs are scarce.

When you grow up, you're going to realize that no-one gives a shit. You're individuality doesn't matter anymore. For the most part, it doesn't matter who you are or how original you can be. I'm not saying that being creative doesn't' help, but what matters is "Are you able to get your job done?" You loose most of that creativity in the field anyways, because you find yourself making what other people want to see instead of what you want to see yourself.

The petty shit that you designers are bitching people out for and stressing out over is a complete waste of your and their time. I know it's upsetting to see your artwork taken or you're layout used, but you need to suck it up. The sooner you suck it up and accept that people are just going to take what you create because you posted it on the internet, the sooner you will be a happier person because you won't stress out about it.

[*ersatz*]

No one's stressed. But if we see it, we're gonna ask them to take it off. That takes at most two minutes. It's not like our lives are over if someone jocks our stuff, we'd just rather them not. And for some of us, it's not our job to steal peoples' stuff or even our job to make our own stuff. I don't get paid for this. And it's not about individuality, it's just...I made it, so I want the credit. If at your job, you do something really great, like reformat something and it's all better now, and someone else says they did it, that's not fair, is it? And you'd complain about it, because you deserve the credit for it.

I don't think it's immature to ask someone to not jock your stuff. It's immature to jock it in the first place.

[*tripvertigo*]

um i have a real job, and i manage just fine without taking other peoples work so that's just bullshit right there. the fact that you just think its ok to take shit off the internet because somehow the internet makes everything free to you is probably just a reflection of your skill level. dont just assume you're the only "grown up" on this board.

if i ever caught anyone on my staff taking creative content from other peoples sites, i would have them fired so f**king fast. i cant be held responsible for their mistakes if we get caught and sued for something like that. not only that, but it's also about self respect. if you cant figure out how to get your work done without stealing shit from other people, then find a work around or just admit that you cant get your job done.

i have no problem purchasing illustrations and photos from istockphoto or gettyimages though. at least you've paid royalties

[*Uronacid*]

No one's stressed. But if we see it, we're gonna ask them to take it off. That takes at most two minutes. It's not like our lives are over if someone jocks our stuff, we'd just rather them not. And for some of us, it's not our job to steal peoples' stuff or even our job to make our own stuff. I don't get paid for this. And it's not about individuality, it's just...I made it, so I want the credit. If at your job, you do something really great, like reformat something and it's all better now, and someone else says they did it, that's not fair, is it? And you'd complain about it, because you deserve the credit for it.

I don't think it's immature to ask someone to not jock your stuff. It's immature to jock it in the first place.

Look, if it was just someone asking nicely to give credit where credit was due. I would say that's fine, but these people are flaming the shit out of everyone for "Jocking". These people aren't getting paid, what credit are you getting? What is this recognition going to get you anyways? (example: Is it just so you can feel good about yourself?) Even if someone else is using it, you can still claim it as your own. If it leads to a job, you can still claim it as your own work. No-one has stolen your rights to your work. It's still your work.

• From one stand point you have the user who sees anything that's posted online without a copyright as "free for the taking" (which it is, from a legal aspect).

• From another stand point you have the angry designer who created what they have taken and wants some kind of recognition for the work that they did (you can't blame them) even if the user that has taken their work isn't claiming it as their own.

Both people are right in a way, but it's not the users problem. It's the designers problem for posting it on the web. If you placed it on the web, you're just going to have to grow up and understand that it's now free for the taking. You have to accept that even though it sucks. The sooner you accept that people will jock your shit without copyrights the sooner you will lead a happier lifestyle. It's not morally or legally wrong to take un-copyrighted images or code from someones layout.

P.S> The relationship between this, and someone stealing recognition at a job is to different. You would need to find another hypothetical situation. You can't cut, copy, and paste physical labor, but you can cut, copy, and paste coding and digital images. Although, it would piss me off if someone did that. Something like that could affect how someone looks upon me when I receive my salary at the end of the year... if someone in the same field was taking credit for the sweat of my brow then I may not receive that promotion I needed. This will effect my life. On the other hand taking images or layouts from a blog site does not have dramatic effects upon a persons life.

um i have a real job, and i manage just fine without taking other peoples work so that's just bullshit right there. the fact that you just think its ok to take shit off the internet because somehow the internet makes everything free to you is probably just a reflection of your skill level. dont just assume you're the only "grown up" on this board.

if i ever caught anyone on my staff taking creative content from other peoples sites, i would have them fired so f**king fast. i cant be held responsible for their mistakes if we get caught and sued for something like that. not only that, but it's also about self respect. if you cant figure out how to get your work done without stealing shit from other people, then find a work around or just admit that you cant get your job done.

i have no problem purchasing illustrations and photos from istockphoto or gettyimages though. at least you've paid royalties

Ouch, you're oh so wrong about me. Ha ha, I make many interesting graphics that I don't post on the web because I don't want people to take them. If you don't have copyrights to protect your stuff. You're in a bit of a pickle. You can't sue anyone if they have a need for your stuff and you don't have copyrights to protect it. You're just a scrap book. At that point, it's not stealing.

I'm not talking about taking images from people who clearly have copyrighted images. I'm talking about teens who throw everything they have on the web and get mad when people use it for their own thing. There is no legal repercussion for doing this. It's more of a "sucks to be you" situation for that teen who posted his/her images on the web.

Chill chill

P.S.> I'm sure your whole design staff would be thrilled when their 20 year old boss fired someone who used un-copyrighted pictures for something on the job. (I just don't believe you have attained such a position.)

[*tripvertigo*]

so we should just accept that because we post shit on the internet, people are going to be assholes and take it?

why dont the jockers just accept that there may be consequences to their actions?

a lot of people DO ask them politely to either give credit where its due or just take their work down. after being refused is when the flaming begins, so i dont see anything wrong with that.

when someone takes your work without giving you the credit, it threatens your individuality. someone may look at your layout and then their layout and decide that the other person came up with it first. they may think that YOU'VE jocked the layout, and that could ruin your reputation.

it's the same deal when you cheat on a test at school. your professor has no way of knowing who cheated off who, so most of the time you BOTH get punished for it.

[heyyfrankie]

read the whole thing.

!!!

hmmm..well, i guess anything i have to or would have said has already been said. BUT...

the main reasons why i was so upset were the obvious.
This person took my exact same css and coding. and i wouldn't really care if i had copied that from some other site or something like that, but i actually wrote that whole style sheet. From <html><head> to </body></html>. CSS...HTML...Everything.

&&&&&&&&What Sammi said is correct: it's not like they just changed the picture...THEY f**kING PASTED NEW STUFF OVER IT. you can see the paint splatters from my original...

BLAH BLAH BLAH

[*Uronacid*]

so we should just accept that because we post shit on the internet, people are going to be assholes and take it?

why dont the jockers just accept that there may be consequences to their actions?

a lot of people DO ask them politely to either give credit where its due or just take their work down. after being refused is when the flaming begins, so i dont see anything wrong with that.

when someone takes your work without giving you the credit, it threatens your individuality. someone may look at your layout and then their layout and decide that the other person came up with it first. they may think that YOU'VE jocked the layout, and that could ruin your reputation.

it's the same deal when you cheat on a test at school. your professor has no way of knowing who cheated off who, so most of the time you BOTH get punished for it.

so we should just accept that because we post shit on the internet, people are going to be assholes and take it?
Well, there's nothing that you can do about it. There are ABSOLUTELY NO legal repercussion for "jocking". Where do you think the term "Whore for Whore" or "Whore Me" comes from. These are the developers of layouts that people are just going to copy the code.

why dont the jockers just accept that there may be consequences to their actions?
Because there are no consequences to their actions...

a lot of people DO ask them politely to either give credit where its due or just take their work down. after being refused is when the flaming begins, so i dont see anything wrong with that.
So, the designer is kindly disagreeing with the user, and the user is kindly disagreeing with designer. You can't expect the user to agree with you (being a designer). You can't expect anyone to agree with you any any conflict. The only thing you can do is hope that the user understands you, feels your pain, and takes your stuff down out of the goodness of his/her heart.


when someone takes your work without giving you the credit, it threatens your individuality. someone may look at your layout and then their layout and decide that the other person came up with it first. they may think that YOU'VE jocked the layout, and that could ruin your reputation.

I'm going to assume that the someone you're talking about is someone who is looking to hire you for a job.

If you're reputation is threatened by jocking then you're obviously not a good enough to graphic/web designer anyways. People who make are into web design generally have a style that they stick to. It's your signature as an artist. A nitch (if you will) that makes you an individual.

Unless this "Jocker" "jocks" every layout/graphic you have ever created they're going to have a tough time applying for a position with your work. If you don't have enough work samples to prove that you're not a "jocker", then you're not good enough to get a job. If you don't have that... then you don't have a reputation to ruin.

Also, I have never been in an interview where the HR department asked me if I was "jocking". If you're starting in the tech field companies usually hire you as an intern so they can fire you if you suck. If you are jocking then you're probably not going to last anyways.

it's the same deal when you cheat on a test at school. your professor has no way of knowing who cheated off who, so most of the time you BOTH get punished for it.
No, not at all. No-one gets in trouble for "jocking", because it's not stealing. Stealing is illegal, and "jocking" is not.

[xKatie]

omg i used to do this alll the time