Global Warming, the real deal, or propaganda? Options

[kimmytree]

With our nation's politics so split, it seems like just as many people that believe in Global Warming think its a lie. What are your views on it? Are we really damaging our Environment with our huge production of carbon dioxide? Or are scientists and enviromentalists simply exaggerating?

I was flipping through my Chemistry book today in class, and found a very interesting section on Global Warming. It's an A Beka Book, published by a Christian college... last updated in 2000. I completely disagree with what the book says, but I thought it'd be interesting to share and debate on.

Global Warming
Recently, some scientists have speculated that mankind's production of CO2 (from fossil fuel combustion, agriculture, and cement manufacturing) may significantly enhance the greenhouse effect, causing average global temperatures to rise. Although man's annual contribution of CO2ot the environment is far smaller than nature's (roughly 7 billion tons vs. 200 billion tons), these scientists worry that this small increase may cause unpredictable changes in the global climate. Environmental activists have gone much further, predicting global flooding, disease epidemics, mass famine, and even the extinction of the human race if drastic action is not taken to slash CO2 emissions.

Earth's climate history
Actually, mankind's effects on the global climate are probably far smaller than some would like to think. Although the earth's climate is not well understood, the science of climatology has shown that the earth's climate tends to fluctuate over long term cycles. For example, between AD 900 and AD 1100, a period climatologists call the Medieval Climate Optimum or Medieval Warm Period, global temperatures are thought to have been significantly warmer than at present. The weather was so mild that grapes and citrus fruits were grown in England; the Vikings established successful farms and colonies in Greenland; and the Anasazi Indians built a large agriculture-based civilization on the Colorado Plateau (which was then characterized by a warm, moist climate). By the 1300's, however, global temperatures dropped sharply, plunging the world into a period called the Little Ice Age. The Vikings' crops and livestock in Greenland began to fail, the colonists died, and the island became covered with ice. Widespread exhaustion and malnutrition due to poor weather and crop failures left Europe vulnerable to huge plague epidemics that killed millions of people. Cooler, drier weather on the Colorado Plateau spelled the end of the Anasazi civilization in America, while at the same time the Thames River near London froze over in the winter with ice thick enough to support annual "ice fairs." In the years to come, the unusually cold winters would cause great hardship for early American colonists. About 1850, the climate began to warm once again, gradually ending the Little Ice Age; by the early 20th century, citrus fruits were being grown in the United States as far north as the Carolinas. This warming continued until 1938 or so, when temperatures leveled off and began to drop once again (probably related to ta decline in solar output). As late as the 1970's, unusually cold winters prompted environmental activists to call for drastic government action to save the planet from "global cooling" and an imminent Ice Age. In the late 1980'sand 1990's, temperatures once again began to climb (corresponding to an increase in solar output), prompting renewed calls to save the planet - this time for global warming.

The Kyoto Protocol
The United Nations responded to fears of global warming by convening a 1992 "Earth Summit" in Rio de Janiero, Brazil. Under the direction of radical environmentalist Maurice Strong, leaders of 150 nations drafted the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change, which called for nations to "voluntarily" clash CO2 emissions, at great cost, to 1990 levels. In 1995, at a second UN conference in Berlin, developing nations voted to exempt themselves from any restrictions while approving mandatory CO2 cutbacks for developed nations such as the United States. These mandatory cutbacks were later incorporated into an amendment to the Freamework Convention called the Kyoto Protocol, drafted in Kyoto, Japan, in December 1998.

The Kyoto Protocol demands that the United States reduce its CO2 emissions to 7% below 1990 levels by the year 2010 (a 30-40% reduction below estimated 2010 levels). It also calls for restrictions on hydrofluorocarbons and perfluorocarbons, methane, nitrous oxide, and sulfur hexafluoride.

Interestingly, most other nations fare far better under the treaty than the United States. China, Singapore, Mexico, and many other rapidly industrializing nations are specifically exempted from the Protocol, while the nations of Western Europe are allowed to count the shutdown of pullution-emitting Communist factories in Eastern Europe in the early 1990's as if they were cutbacks in their own CO2 production.

Costs of Kyoto
Proponents of the Kyoto Protocol have argued that slashing CO2 emissions by as much as 40% below estimated 2010 levels will have little if any economic cost. The Clinton Administration estimated that the only noticeable effect would be an increase in gasoline prices of 6-8 cents per gallon, while some environmentalists have even argued that the treaty will save money and jobs. However, since the treaty lays heavy burdens on U.S. industries while copletely exempting most overseas industries, it is likely that it will only accelerate the flight of energy-intensive U.S. industries to other nations, with the inevitable loss of American jobs. Some critics predict that by 2010, the Kyoto Protocol could result in the loss of 2.4 million U.S. jobs and cost the average family as much as $2700 per year in price increases and losti ncome. Energy shortages like those of the 1970s may once again become commonplace, particularly if environmentalists continue to obstruct the construction of new nuclear plants.

Possible benefits of rising CO2
These huge costs are particularly ironic in the light of the fact that increased CO2 levels (and even global warming, should it occur) would likely be a net benefit to mankind. It is a known fact that plants grow much more efficiently at higher CO2 concentrations; if the CO2 content of the air is experimentally doubled, crop yields increase up to 50% while requiring much less water and fertilizer. In addition, history reveals that periods of warmer average global temperatures tend to be associated with better living conditions for humanity as a whole. During the medieval Climate Optimum (when average global temperatures were 6-9 degrees warmer than at present), average life expectancies increased significantly due to reduced disease, higher crop yields, and better nutrition. The global cooling that ended this period (the Little Ice Age), by contrast, was associated with a 10-year drop in average life expectancies.

Looking ahead
Unfortunately, the Kyoto Protocol seems to reflect a "ready-fire-aim" approach that characterizes many environmental issues. Although the fate of the treaty is not yet certain, it is likely that the global warming debated will continue for some time to come. As Christians, however, we can be certain that "while the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and sumer and winter, and day and night shall not cease" (Genesis 8:22). Although we should do all within our power to protect the world God has given us, we must always remember that the fate of the earth rests in the hands of its Creator.

That last paragraph scares me the most... the idea that the earth will only cease to exist when God's ready for it to. The first few paragraphs just lead up to global warming... most of the bizzare content is in the last two paragraphs.

Agree, or disagree on the book's claims? Discuss.

[jackie13xo]

haha nahhhhhhhhh

YOU SUCK
YANKEES SUCK
end of story.

[kimmytree]

Crap, the debate forum really needs to be modded better.

But just because you went to a $30,000 a year school doesnt mean you werent told any lies. There are college professors just as qualified as yours who hold exact opposite views. You can never believe everything a person tells you, no matter who they are. But that goes both ways.

[xKatt]

^ Yup. There's very qualified and supported scientists on both sides of the debate.

[RAWRstephishere]

Global warming is true, but people dont have that much effect of it.

One volcano exploding causes more pollution than man kind has ever made.
I dont think cutting down on our pollution will do that much good.
Its like doing one sit-up a day to loose 20 pounds.

[brooklyneast05]

Global warming is true, but people dont have that much effect of it.
One volcano exploding causes more pollution than man kind has ever made.

yeah people always say this and my response is who cares, i don't get it i guess, maybe i'm looking at it different than u mean it. we shouldn't worry about our effect because that causes more pollution. to me it's like saying, we killed 2 people but that person over there killed 30, so our two aren't important.

i still think our two are important

[*Steven*]

Global warming is true, but people dont have that much effect of it.

One volcano exploding causes more pollution than man kind has ever made.
I dont think cutting down on our pollution will do that much good.
Its like doing one sit-up a day to loose 20 pounds.

Have you read through the thread?

[RAWRstephishere]

Have you read through the thread?

I didnt read through all of it.

Thats just my opinion.

[*Steven*]

Monotony doesn't help arguments.

[jesusisthebestth...]

the way i see it, even if global warming is a big hoax it's a good idea for us all to stop polluting the environment and take the necessary precautions to save the environment for fresh air, at least

[VaeVictis]

I am yet to hear a convincing argument as to why Global Warming ISN'T fact.

I'm sure you all know the principles involved, so I won't go into them, but I do believe in global warming.

And yes, I have seen An Inconvenient Truth. Was quite an interesting watch, by the way.

[*Steven*]

I am yet to hear a convincing argument as to why Global Warming ISN'T fact.

I'm sure you all know the principles involved, so I won't go into them, but I do believe in global warming.

And yes, I have seen An Inconvenient Truth. Was quite an interesting watch, by the way.

Have YOU read the thread? We've been over plenty of very good reasons why it's not a big deal, and how it's happening. There have been arguments for both sides, both good arguments.

[Smarmosaur]

i do beleive it exists, but I really really really don't think we have to even BEGIN to worry about it for the next...eh...couple billion years? people are making too big of a deal about it. i think it's good that we are aware of it, but for the love of pickles, don't worry so much! pollution is one thing, global warming is another. two side of the scale.

[*Steven*]

Morbidangel, have you taken notice to the topic that's pinned w/ the name "Notice!"?

If you are going to participate in a Debate which has already been going on for quite a few pages, you must read at least the last page or so to get an idea of what's already been discussed and covered. When one posts something that has already been covered, it only halts the debate because those who are well-engrossed in the topic have to stop and explain. So pleeeease don't do it. If it becomes a continuous thing, you will receive a verbal warning and go on from there.

Please go through the posts on this page before you respond to the original post. You've been doing that in a number of debate topics. Consider this your verbal warning, if it continues you'll receive a warning. I'll be sending you a PM momentarily.

[ClaudelGFX]

I believe Global Warming is REAL, cuz i for one felt it on my skin this summer... and last year we barely had snow on Xmas and on the New Year there was no snow at all... which never happen untill now, we had snow untill february and so... in fact if i remember well last year i was wearing Shorts at New Year's party rofl.

Here you can see how Winter was before Global Warming...
http://www.tabblo.com/studio/stories/view/222772/

Temperatures of up to 45 degrees Celcius have plagued much of south-eastern Europe, from Croatia to Bulgaria. According to press reports, several elderly people have died of heat-related complications. The Romanian Health Ministry reported 19 such deaths.
http://www.euractiv.com/en/climate-change/.../article-165839
http://ec.europa.eu/environment/climat/home_en.htm

"The same thing can happen as a result of sea-level rise. Bangladesh is having terrible problems in this area. It has a population of about 120 million in an area the size of Wisconsin, and there is already border tension between Bangladesh and India. A significant chunk of Bangladesh is projected to go underwater in the next 100 years. Where are those people going to go? There's no room left."
http://www.commondreams.org/views/071000-102.htm

[*Steven*]

Well if we're going to bring personal experiences into it, how come the Texas weather is a few degrees cooler and a few years ago we had 8 inches of snow on Christmas. Must be global warming.

[Smarmosaur]

^^ LOL we say that ALLLL the time here.
"must be global warming"
back on track...
i don't think any weather patterns and temperature changes have to do with global warming...the patterns are never going to be the least bit same. ever. i don't think we should bring personal experiences into this. it just doesn't fit.

[kimmytree]

I believe Global Warming is REAL, cuz i for one felt it on my skin this summer... and last year we barely had snow on Xmas and on the New Year there was no snow at all... which never happen untill now, we had snow untill february and so... in fact if i remember well last year i was wearing Shorts at New Year's party rofl.

Here you can see how Winter was before Global Warming...
http://www.tabblo.com/studio/stories/view/222772/

You cant really compare one year with the next... global warming isnt dramatically changing our climate from year to year. Our earth is millions of years old - our climate isnt going to shift that fast.

[*Steven*]

Actually billions, but yeah, you can't base global warming on changes over the span of a few years. Decades, maybe. Even then it's part of a natural cycle, but all of this has already been discussed and is kinda redundant x.x

[ClaudelGFX]

You cant really compare one year with the next... global warming isnt dramatically changing our climate from year to year. Our earth is millions of years old - our climate isnt going to shift that fast.

You're so like wrong about all this, you just have to live somewhere to know what exactly is changing or not, saying it isn't so its just plain stupid.

[brooklyneast05]

You're so like wrong about all this, you just have to live somewhere to know what exactly is changing or not, saying it isn't so its just plain stupid.

there isn't a wrong or right on this subject...
just a personal view of what is right and wrong
have u even read any of this thread to know what kimmytree's opinion is?
i wouldn't say she is "so like wrong about all this" when shes expressed views two pages ago that she thinks global warming is possibly happening and if nothing else we should take precautions, better safe then sorry.

going off personal experience alone doesn't convince anyone, we aren't in ur country to "feel" global warming. i agree that we can't compare one year with the next. just because there was snow on Christmas last year and not this year isn't evidence of global warming.

[*Uronacid*]

blnGlobalWarming = true;
if(blnGlobalWarming = true) {new intCollege = 30000};


^OMG look guys global warming is real! I found it on the internets!

[arghrawr]

I've gotta say, I watched The Inconvienient Truth and it seems like propaganda to me. After reading through this whole thread, I could care less if people think global warming is real or not. Isn't the fact that we're polluting our earth enough to motivate us to try and clean up our act? Global warming or not, we should be trying to live lifestyles that are healthier and more beneficial for the earth and ourselves. I get kind of disgusted when I hear people say they wouldn't be willing to change their lifestyles. It's like a druggie refusing to clean up his/her act to me. The earth needs to detox.

[*Uronacid*]

I've gotta say, I watched The Inconvienient Truth and it seems like propaganda to me. After reading through this whole thread, I could care less if people think global warming is real or not. Isn't the fact that we're polluting our earth enough to motivate us to try and clean up our act? Global warming or not, we should be trying to live lifestyles that are healthier and more beneficial for the earth and ourselves. I get kind of disgusted when I hear people say they wouldn't be willing to change their lifestyles. It's like a druggie refusing to clean up his/her act to me. The earth needs to detox.

I'll agree with this.

[xoxo_proud]

I've gotta say, I watched The Inconvienient Truth and it seems like propaganda to me. After reading through this whole thread, I could care less if people think global warming is real or not. Isn't the fact that we're polluting our earth enough to motivate us to try and clean up our act? Global warming or not, we should be trying to live lifestyles that are healthier and more beneficial for the earth and ourselves. I get kind of disgusted when I hear people say they wouldn't be willing to change their lifestyles. It's like a druggie refusing to clean up his/her act to me. The earth needs to detox.

I'll agree with this to. We need to clean up the earth. Whether global warming exists or not

[kimmytree]

I've gotta say, I watched The Inconvienient Truth and it seems like propaganda to me. After reading through this whole thread, I could care less if people think global warming is real or not. Isn't the fact that we're polluting our earth enough to motivate us to try and clean up our act? Global warming or not, we should be trying to live lifestyles that are healthier and more beneficial for the earth and ourselves. I get kind of disgusted when I hear people say they wouldn't be willing to change their lifestyles. It's like a druggie refusing to clean up his/her act to me. The earth needs to detox.

Very well said, I totally agree (with the bolded statements). I know I'm not really contributing by posting this, but you've said it all.