Affirmative Action, go away! Options

[kimmytree]

^ More than it is for whites?

[animalinside]

People believe that Affirmative Action isnt fair because they only see how it affects themselves, and sometimes they look at the surface of it and everything seems completely unbalanced, but if you look further down the timeline, like with job placement, promotions and what not, things arent fairly balanced there either.

It isnt a perfect system, but it is definitely better than nothing

[*Steven*]

^Provide examples please, I'm not understanding what you're trying to say.

Nowadays everyone's so focused on equal opportunity, equality, etc etc, and then we still have Affirmative Action.

[dannyordinary]

I think it should stay
since not everyone has the help that others do.

[brooklyneast05]

I think it should stay
since not everyone has the help that others do.

but also the ones who have more help, it isn't really their fault.
whether i'm black or not my parents had plenty of money to send me to a good college, and it's not my fault that i had more help and opportunity than some people. i wouldn't wanna be punished for things i can't control. but that goes both ways i guess, just like i wouldn't wanna be punished because my skins black and they are set on hiring a white dude, even if i'm just as qualified.

[Spirited Away]

^ More than it is for whites?

Generally, Asians are held on the same level as Whites on college admissions. However, I've read some articles that show many instances where they are worst off than Whites.

[Joss-eh-lime]

Yeah but not all were treated equal. You can tell people they were created equal all you want but that's not going to stop people from being power hungry and having a system of government in which people are not equal in place.

exactly thank you

[jesusisthebestth...]

i'm torn on this subject simply because i didn't live in a time when there was no affirmative action, so i do not know how things once were. but no one is treated equally at all times, as a result of race, ethnicity, financial status, social status, etc...so i find that affirmative action is good for those less privileged in challenging situations.

but affirmative action goes both ways...i wish people would stop acting like african americans are the only people who benefit from affirmative action.

[*ersatz*]

Generally, Asians are held on the same level as Whites on college admissions. However, I've read some articles that show many instances where they are worst off than Whites.

Asians still get extra points on standardized tests. I don't know anything else because as of yet it doesn't affect me, but I do know about standardized tests.

[Comptine]

Generally, Asians are held on the same level as Whites on college admissions. However, I've read some articles that show many instances where they are worst off than Whites.

It depends on how you look at "worst off". A lot of asians (Part of our culture, I guess. In China and other Asian countries, universities are reserved for the very, very top of the nation. Out of millions a city that take the merit test, only a couple thousand move on to higher education) spend a lot of time on grades and studying. So a lot of them are only academically appealing while other candidates have other stuff going for them. For the really competitive institutions like Harvard and Princeton, all these Asians look the same. Also, these colleges get hoards of Asians that obviously only apply to them for the name.

I think affirmative action should get tweaked. I knew someone in my school who was like a star football player, his parents were extremely successful, he was smart but he was also black. He got into Harvard. Everyone was sure he had a good chance to get in based on merit but everyone knew it was locked in because of his race. Another girl in my school had mediocre grades but had a relatively well off family and most people wouldn't call her UPenn material. She put Hispanic down and I think that helped her get accepted.

Affirmative action shouldn't look at race anymore. It should look at the community or social or economic class the person comes from. I think that is a fairer "help" than based on race because it would be ridiculious to "help" someone when they obviously had the means to succeed and do well. The two people I mentioned and I, we attended a really good school with excellent resources. They both came from a good environment. If they already had a good thing going for them and they are equal to White/Asian candidates, why should they get picked because they were a minority?

College is already extremely competitive where a dozen other people applying have the same stuff as you. Why should someone on an equal level get picked just because they were Hispanic or Black? I would understand if colleges picked a person if he came from the projects, attended a shit school with nothing to offer, his parents worked minimum wage jobs, and he was always minding his siblings and still managed to shine and make something of himself. That is a person that deserves a break and given a bit more allowance.

[*Sandraaa*]

I think affirmative action should get tweaked. I knew someone in my school who was like a star football player, his parents were extremely successful, he was smart but he was also black. He got into Harvard. Everyone was sure he had a good chance to get in based on merit but everyone knew it was locked in because of his race.

I don't understand. You say he was smart and had a good chance, so what makes you think that wasn't the reason he got into Harvard?
It makes it seem as if Blacks in Ivy league colleges are accepted because of their race.

[animalinside]

Plus he played football very well, Harvard will obviously be more willing to accept someone that will be beneficial to them in many ways

[Comptine]

^I didn't say he didn't deserve it nor did i say it's surprising he's in Ivy League cause he's black. But there are others like him who are just as qualified. That fact that no one doubted whether or not he'll get in is because he had his merit AND affirmative action on his side - making him a shoo in. But if he were white or asian, even if he had the merit, it wouldn't guarantee his acceptance.

it's not that black people in Ivy League are there because of AA. But for everyone else, being qualified and a minority is the best way to get into Harvard where even 2400 SATs and a valedictorian has an iffy chance.

[animalinside]

plenty of 2400's and 1st in class dont get into ivy leagues all the time. You could make the same argument for people with legacies that usually get in with 2200+ and like top 5 percent rankings.

[BOOGERSHAHA]

ugh i hate legacy! fin.

[*Sandraaa*]

^I didn't say he didn't deserve it nor did i say it's surprising he's in Ivy League cause he's black. But there are others like him who are just as qualified. That fact that no one doubted whether or not he'll get in is because he had his merit AND affirmative action on his side - making him a shoo in. But if he were white or asian, even if he had the merit, it wouldn't guarantee his acceptance.

it's not that black people in Ivy League are there because of AA. But for everyone else, being qualified and a minority is the best way to get into Harvard where even 2400 SATs and a valedictorian has an iffy chance.

Why do you keep insisting that Affirmative action helped him? I still don't buy this.

But if he were white or asian, even if he had the merit, it wouldn't guarantee his acceptance.

I see. So only African Americans in this situation are guaranteed to get accepted?

[Comptine]

^Because, everybody knows that even if someone has the merit, he/she might not get into Harvard or Princeton. But some people use AA to give them an extra boost. I don't think he put down his race to get more help nor do I think he's like that but other people around him knows that AA will favor him. We saw other kids who were really smart and did great things but didn't get into their schools.

My point is that AA already has a negative perception among people who don't get it. Many people wouldn't say Bob got in to Harvard even when he has a 99 average and a 2400 SAT because people know that's not enough to get in. However, if Bob was a minority, he has something extra going for him.

He was my friend. I had class with him. He was really nice and very helpful in class. I knew he was smart and talented. He had a good chance at Harvard. But I understood Harvard's admission's process and about my school's relationship with Harvard. For other people, they had a good chance but with Harvard you can never be sure. But everyone KNEW he was going to get in because AA would help him. He was already there but AA confirmed it.

[innovation]

do you pay for your ancestors' sins? no.
should you benefit from what your ancestors suffered? no.

originally affirmative action was put in place to help blacks get back on their feet, right? because they were mostly poor and were facing heavy racism.

These reasons are rather obsolete in the modern world. Currently, academic institutions implement affirmative action policies because racial diversity is considered a public good. In the United States, diversity is a positive value, and since many institutions now compete against one another to attract qualified applicants, promoting racial diversity is a factor that might play into students' college decisions. In order to enhance the attractiveness and quality of its institution, a university chooses to adopt this policy.

Thus, I think that affirmative action stems more from pragmatism than from moral obligations to blacks. After all, Hispanics benefit equally from affirmative action, despite the fact that they were not enslaved on a widespread basis. From my perspective, this debate is more about the rights of the private sector than anything else.

Along the same token, socioeconomic diversity has recently been viewed as another public good; outreach initiatives to lower-income classes enhance a university's public image. Thus, many universities have taken the initiative to recruit lower-income students. For instance, my university offers a full ride to any student with an annual household income below $60K. Other universities have adopted similar measures and have dedicated more time and effort to attracting socioeconomically disadvantaged students.

People always assume Asians are smarter. With Affirmative Action, a college has to have a certain amount of Asians... who in some cases end up taking white students spots, when they are the ones with the better credintials (sp?). Asians are still a minority in this country.

Affirmative action policies do not require colleges to admit "a certain amount of Asians"; that policy would constitute the institution of quotas, which is illegal.

[Joss-eh-lime]

I think the solution is to have something that aids people with low incomes, regardless of race, of gender.

Like "Help the Less Fortunate Have a Chance at Success" Action.

[brooklyneast05]

i agree with that more than just going by race,
but still u run into a lot of the same issues i think. is it really someones fault that their parents make more money that another persons, and should they get priority over that person for things they cant control.

[*Uronacid*]

Meh... affirmative action... it's lame, but only because I'm a white male. Life's a competition, and I don't want anyone to have an unfair advantage. I want to survive. I was born a white male, and I want to reap the benefits of being one. I'm sorry you were born a female, Black, Jew, Asian, with green hair. Fuck off, I went to college, I have better grades than you, and did I forget to mention my gorgeous white skin, blue eyes, and blond hair *sparkle*.

Here, I made an acronym for all your supporters of Affirmative Action.

W - worship
H - holy
I - invincible
T - tough
E - excelence

M - man
A - awsome
L - wonderful (that one was backwards)
E - Everything you want to hire

Basically, affirmative action is like our gov't saying saying, "Alright, we know that white males are better than you guys, so we'll give you a handicap because you're not as good as they are."

*our gov't hands a crutch to all the minorities*

Hey, would any of you be interested in licking my white male ass-hole? It tastes better than a chocolate pretzel.

[innovation]

^ What a meaningless, tactless, fallacy-ridden post.

Institutions and corporations don't implement a policy of affirmative action out of pity or mockery. (Refer to my previous post)

[animalinside]

Meh... affirmative action... it's lame, but only because I'm a white male. Life's a competition, and I don't want anyone to have an unfair advantage. I want to survive. I was born a white male, and I want to reap the benefits of being one. I'm sorry you were born a female, Black, Jew, Asian, with green hair. Fuck off, I went to college, I have better grades than you, and did I forget to mention my gorgeous white skin, blue eyes, and blond hair *sparkle*.

Here, I made an acronym for all your supporters of Affirmative Action.

W - worship
H - holy
I - invincible
T - tough
E - excelence

M - man
A - awsome
L - wonderful (that one was backwards)
E - Everything you want to hire

Basically, affirmative action is like our gov't saying saying, "Alright, we know that white males are better than you guys, so we'll give you a handicap because you're not as good as they are."

*our gov't hands a crutch to all the minorities*

Hey, would any of you be interested in licking my white male ass-hole? It tastes better than a chocolate pretzel.

You make me ashamed to be white... especially when you post speaking of supremacy, when in reality it only illustrates your inferiority...not to mention your grammar/spelling mistakes

[Joss-eh-lime]

Meh... affirmative action... it's lame, but only because I'm a white male. Life's a competition, and I don't want anyone to have an unfair advantage. I want to survive. I was born a white male, and I want to reap the benefits of being one. I'm sorry you were born a female, Black, Jew, Asian, with green hair. Fuck off, I went to college, I have better grades than you, and did I forget to mention my gorgeous white skin, blue eyes, and blond hair *sparkle*.

Here, I made an acronym for all your supporters of Affirmative Action.

W - worship
H - holy
I - invincible
T - tough
E - excelence

M - man
A - awsome
L - wonderful (that one was backwards)
E - Everything you want to hire

Basically, affirmative action is like our gov't saying saying, "Alright, we know that white males are better than you guys, so we'll give you a handicap because you're not as good as they are."

your post contradicts itself...
you claim to be better than everyone else in your little white male acronym, yet you say affirmative action gives others an unfair advantage?

if you are so much better than everyone else, why is affirmative action hurting you? its just helping others.

or are you so racist that anyone else getting help when they need it is totally unacceptable?

[*Insurmountable*]

Wasn't he joking o_O at least from the looks of thats what I would think..

Although I have to say its funny that you guys are actually getting mad about him about it all and calling him racist and so on.