Oh cruel fate, why was I born a dog? Options

[*My Cinderella.*]

Buddhism, Hinduism, Jainism and other religions believe in dharma, which is basically tasks that one needs to complete in their lifetime. Do you believe that the form of life something or someone takes (such as a fish or dog) represents how they acted in their past lives? For example, do you think that a rapist years back could be the roach in your kitchen to this day? Or on a positive outlook, a kind and generous poor man could reborn into the prince of Thailand. What do you think?

[Simba]

Karma I know, dharma, not so much.

Anyhow, actions a person has committed during a lifetime will most certainly reflect the body someone will acquire during transmigration. The consciousness a person has at the time of death will reflect the body they will receive next. If a person eats and eats and eats, a likely outcome as a body after death would be a pig. Also, if a person has sexual desires in mind and has also accumulated good karma, they will be given a body fit for this person's desires.

It should be understood that a person usually only transmigrates to an animal body due to bad karma, whereas bearing an animal body is like serving a punishment. (An animal has very low capability when it comes to logic and advanced knowledge.)

It should be noted, that, in order for this to be true, reincarnation must also be true.

[*mishyerr*]

I think that it sounds cool and fair and all that good stuff, but I can decide whether or not I can truly believe in it. There are a lot of good points in the 'Transmigration' thread.

[Simba]

I think that it sounds cool and fair and all that good stuff, but I can decide whether or not I can truly believe in it. There are a lot of good points in the 'Transmigration' thread.

The concept tends to be hard to understand when you don't know and accept some other basic knowledge.

For example, one must accept that they are not the body but an eternal soul. (Which is also logically backed up.)

[sweetangel2128]

I am assuming this is dealing with re-incarnation, in my own opinion I honestly don't believe in re-incarnation. I believe that life is what you make of it, you either succeed in your lifetime or you don't, you go to Heaven or Hell, that's it to this life, there is no second chances unless of course you almost die but then don't which gives you another chance to change the way you live your life. But I don't believe in re-incarnation which is why it's so important to worry about how you want to make your life here on earth before you die because there IS no second chances when it comes to death.

Now, if I did believe in re-incarnation I would say it would be freaky to be a pig being that when your fat enough, you die anyway so that kinda sucks lmao

[Simba]

I am assuming this is dealing with re-incarnation, in my own opinion I honestly don't believe in re-incarnation. I believe that life is what you make of it, you either succeed in your lifetime or you don't, you go to Heaven or Hell, that's it to this life, there is no second chances unless of course you almost die but then don't which gives you another chance to change the way you live your life. But I don't believe in re-incarnation which is why it's so important to worry about how you want to make your life here on earth before you die because there IS no second chances when it comes to death.

The misconception that reincarnation serves as something of a "second chance" to go to Heaven or Hell is nonsense. First of all, in real reincarnation, there are no material dimensions of Heaven or Hell as thought to be in Christianity. "Hell" is described as a state of dim God-consciousness; "Heaven" is spiritually returning to the Supreme Being (God).

Because one continuously undergoes reincarnation until he becomes God-conscious, there is no such "second" chance. Your chance of reuniting with God is constant as you are not the body but an eternal soul.

Reincarnation (once it is understood) is much more logical and reasonable than the concept of one shot at Heaven or Hell. Reincarnation (and karma) justify why you are born where you are and in what conditions (ex: in a poor family with one arm, or in a rich area and healthy) rather than it being almost completely random as it would be in a "one shot" scenario. Reuniting with God also sounds much more simple than it really is in Christian teachings.

Coincidentally, during the period where reincarnation was taught in Christianity, one of the reasons why teachers stopped teaching reincarnation was because they thought that followers would receive the misconception that reincarnation gives them a "second chance" and that people would cease undergoing serious religious activities.

[sweetangel2128]

The misconception that reincarnation serves as something of a "second chance" to go to Heaven or Hell is nonsense. First of all, in real reincarnation, there are no material dimensions of Heaven or Hell as thought to be in Christianity. "Hell" is described as a state of dim God-consciousness; "Heaven" is spiritually returning to the Supreme Being (God).

Because one continuously undergoes reincarnation until he becomes God-conscious, there is no such "second" chance. Your chance of reuniting with God is constant as you are not the body but an eternal soul.

Reincarnation (once it is understood) is much more logical and reasonable than the concept of one shot at Heaven or Hell. Reincarnation (and karma) justify why you are born where you are and in what conditions (ex: in a poor family with one arm, or in a rich area and healthy) rather than it being almost completely random as it would be in a "one shot" scenario. Reuniting with God also sounds much more simple than it really is in Christian teachings.

Coincidentally, during the period where reincarnation was taught in Christianity, one of the reasons why teachers stopped teaching reincarnation was because they thought that followers would receive the misconception that reincarnation gives them a "second chance" and that people would cease undergoing serious religious activities.

Well, I'd rather go with the "one chance" senario because I know deep down in my heart I'll be spending eternity in Heaven with God which to me is far more enjoyable than re-incarnation.

As for for Christians and reuniting with God being simple. It's not simple at all, there will be lots of obstacles but if you go towards those obstacles and beat them with all your heart, you will succeed and make God happy and he will reward you and bless you. A lot of people teach that Christianity is easy but those are the wrong people to listen to, the good people are the ones that teach you that Christianity, your walk with God will be hard, very hard but will also be rewarding.

I don't remember them ever teaching reincarnation in Christianity. While I've only been a Christian for a year, I have kept my ears and eyes open to learning about religion (christian religion that is) and I have never heard of them teaching reincarnation.

[WickedDreamer]

For example, do you think that a rapist years back could be the roach in your kitchen to this day? Or on a positive outlook, a kind and generous poor man could reborn into the prince of Thailand. What do you think?

But, who's to say being a roach is so bad... can't they live like forever with out their heads? (sarcasam) And what's so good about being a prince, there has to be like a ton of pressures coming from all sides.

I believe in karma and the 3 times law... dharma... idk... that's a hard one. I don't think there is such a thing as a perfect existance. Could you imagine life without drama... it would be so boring!

[Simba]

Well, I'd rather go with the "one chance" senario because I know deep down in my heart I'll be spending eternity in Heaven with God which to me is far more enjoyable than re-incarnation.

You might rather want to go to a good college rather than a bad college, but we don't always get to do what we'd rather do.

Ok, no one said reincarnation was going to be enjoyable; in fact, the suffering that goes along with being born and reborn again in this material world is a reminder that our true homes are not here, but with God.

However, it should be emphasized that reincarnation is not a never-ending process. One gets out of the cycle of reincarnation by becoming God-conscious, which is similar to the "one chance" deal, but with more reason and logic.

I don't remember them ever teaching reincarnation in Christianity. While I've only been a Christian for a year, I have kept my ears and eyes open to learning about religion (christian religion that is) and I have never heard of them teaching reincarnation.

Well, I don't expect you to actually remember reincarnation being taught in Christianity, since that was a long, long time ago, back in Origen's time when there were still "fathers of Christianity."

Origen one of the fathers of Christianity, among other Christians, once preached reincarnation. (Though it should be noted that they did not have perfect knowledge of reincarnation.) However, the Christians finally concluded to not teach reincarnation for the fear of receiving that same "second chance" misconception you had and that people would stop participating in serious religious activities (as I've previously stated).

[sweetangel2128]

You might rather want to go to a good college rather than a bad college, but we don't always get to do what we'd rather do.

Ok, no one said reincarnation was going to be enjoyable; in fact, the suffering that goes along with being born and reborn again in this material world is a reminder that our true homes are not here, but with God.

However, it should be emphasized that reincarnation is not a never-ending process. One gets out of the cycle of reincarnation by becoming God-conscious, which is similar to the "one chance" deal, but with more reason and logic.
Well, I don't expect you to actually remember reincarnation being taught in Christianity, since that was a long, long time ago, back in Origen's time when there were still "fathers of Christianity."

Origen one of the fathers of Christianity, among other Christians, once preached reincarnation. (Though it should be noted that they did not have perfect knowledge of reincarnation.) However, the Christians finally concluded to not teach reincarnation for the fear of receiving that same "second chance" misconception you had and that people would stop participating in serious religious activities (as I've previously stated).

I know you don't always get what you want but when it comes to God that is somewhat of the case since you have a choice which side to take and how to act. That you can control. As for college, sometimes that's kinda hard because of money but if you have the will power and the money you can do it.

When you say Christians or Christianity you got to be specific...there are a lot of different types of Christianity. Such as: Catholic, Pentacostal, non-Denominational, Baptist..ect.. Do you know what branch it was? Could it of been Catholics?

Note: I don't think God is simple anyways, things are hard even in this life.

[Simba]

When you say Christians or Christianity you got to be specific...there are a lot of different types of Christianity. Such as: Catholic, Pentacostal, non-Denominational, Baptist..ect.. Do you know what branch it was? Could it of been Catholics?

I'm not sure which branch of Christianity it was, but it shouldn't matter too much since the essential teachings of all of the denominations should be rather similar. I mean, this was probably before many of the denominations existed.

[*Uronacid*]

Buddhism, Hinduism, Jainism and other religions believe in dharma, which is basically tasks that one needs to complete in their lifetime. Do you believe that the form of life something or someone takes (such as a fish or dog) represents how they acted in their past lives? For example, do you think that a rapist years back could be the roach in your kitchen to this day? Or on a positive outlook, a kind and generous poor man could reborn into the prince of Thailand. What do you think?

I don't know, but I hate rapists. Now that I know that rapists become roaches, I'm going to pull the legs off of every roach I see.

I'm not sure which branch of Christianity it was, but it shouldn't matter too much since the essential teachings of all of the denominations should be rather similar. I mean, this was probably before many of the denominations existed.

The only things that Christians agree upon is that Jesus, and God. There are so many different perceptions of the Bible that you really do need to specify. I know that my Church has never had a teaching on reincarnation. I don't think that the Catholic church (the largest sect. of Christianity) has ever held teachings to uphold the idea of reincarnation.

You're talking about a tiny little "misguided" denomination of Christianity... I just don't think you should refer to the whole. Also, I don't know, but that seems like a bad example. You should really have a source or something, because it seems like your just trying to recall a blurry memory.

[Simba]

The only things that Christians agree upon is that Jesus, and God. There are so many different perceptions of the Bible that you really do need to specify. I know that my Church has never had a teaching on reincarnation. I don't think that the Catholic church (the largest sect. of Christianity) has ever held teachings to uphold the idea of reincarnation.

You're talking about a tiny little "misguided" denomination of Christianity... I just don't think you should refer to the whole. Also, I don't know, but that seems like a bad example. You should really have a source or something, because it seems like your just trying to recall a blurry memory.

Well, Origen being known as one of the father's of Christianity, you would think his influence was rather large.

Well, here's a wiki on Origen: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origen#Origen...he_later_Church

Though, it's a wiki, so who knows how reliable that information is. However, in the Contra Celsum, written by Origen, he writes:

Is it not rational that souls should be introduced into bodies, in accordance with their merits and previous deeds, and that those who have used their bodies in doing the utmost possible good should have a right to bodies endowed with qualities superior to the bodies or others?...

The soul, which is immaterial and invisible in its nature, exists in no material place without having a body suited to the nature of that place; accordingly, it at one time puts off one body, which was necessary before, but which is no longer adequate in its changed state, and it exchanges it for a second.

Coincidentally, around 553 A.D. Origen was cursed by the church and people were told not to read Origen's books or to believe in reincarnation or else they would go to hell. Was this a certified condemnation? Probably not, so you probably wouldn't go to hell for something like reading that passage by Origen I provided up there.

[alysaphobia]

isn't this more of a personal belief question than a debate question? or am i just confused...

to answer your question... i don't believe in reincarnation/dharma. though i guess it'd be a cool concept to believe in because the bad people would get what they deserved in the end...

[sweetangel2128]

I'm not sure which branch of Christianity it was, but it shouldn't matter too much since the essential teachings of all of the denominations should be rather similar. I mean, this was probably before many of the denominations existed.

Not exactly. From what I was told Catholics teach outside of the Bible or add to it quite often. Which is why I was wondering.

You're talking about a tiny little "misguided" denomination of Christianity... I just don't think you should refer to the whole.

I agree. You see that's what upsets me with a lot of unbelievers. They think since one Christian teaches one thing or does one thing that the whole religion is bad and all Christians are evil. That really upsets me.

[Simba]

(I've stated this before:) You guys know I'm talking way, way back about when reincarnation was taught, right? Much before many denominations of Christianity were developed. I mean, there were still "fathers of Christianity" at the time.

If the denominations in which reincarnation was taught in at the time matters so much at this point, I'm sure you could look it up yourselves. For me though, I can still go on. Again, if you guys want to focus on reincarnation in the Bible, please discuss in the Transmigration thread.

[xBUTTMUNCHx]

Interesting topic...
those "ppo" who were animals in their past, had been said, (or so my father read about)
was said to have probably done something terrible. And that if you committed suicide in the last life you had, your never gonna be reborn..o0o && that if you are in "this" current life as a dog, er cat or some kind of big animal then you are close to becoming human.


No facts, but beliefs.

[Ington]

I think a person dies when all of his memories are erased, and that the entire process of reincarnation is a system to divert the blame away from one's self.

For example; "Ah, my husband ran off with a stripper. What did I do in my past life to deserve this?"

This is obvious nonsense, as the husband was more likely no good to begin with or the wife was just that impossible to tolerate. Instead of looking at the painful truth, people created a new idea that events are all due to past occurrences, which you don't remember anyway. Additionally, if you can't remember your 'past life', its like you never lived it at all. Thus, what importance would it make if you even had one? Being good in this life so that you could be better off in your next life seems foolish if you won't really be experiencing the change.

Note: This is just a stupid example, its just meant to show the bare structure of my thoughts on the topic.

[swishersweet]

I don't really believe in that hokish pokish non sense.

For me, as a Christian, people die and either go to heaven or hell. Whether if you were good and went to heaven and whether if you were bad you went to hell you don't "reincarnate" your soul remains at peace.

[Simba]

I think a person dies when all of his memories are erased, and that the entire process of reincarnation is a system to divert the blame away from one's self.

For example; "Ah, my husband ran off with a stripper. What did I do in my past life to deserve this?"

This is obvious nonsense, as the husband was more likely no good to begin with or the wife was just that impossible to tolerate. Instead of looking at the painful truth, people created a new idea that events are all due to past occurrences, which you don't remember anyway. Additionally, if you can't remember your 'past life', its like you never lived it at all. Thus, what importance would it make if you even had one? Being good in this life so that you could be better off in your next life seems foolish if you won't really be experiencing the change.

Note: This is just a stupid example, its just meant to show the bare structure of my thoughts on the topic.

Karma is what helps make reincarnation make sense. "With every action there is an opposite and equal reaction." (Newton's Third Law)

Someone thinking "Ah, my husband ran off with a stripper. What did I do in my past life to deserve this?" doesn't necessarily have quite the right idea of reincarnation. Reincarnation makes sense because it gives reason as to why you were born under what conditions (because of karma); however, an action in the present doesn't have to be caused from an action in a past life.

Sure, the husband may not have (and probably didn't) run off because of something the wife did in her past life, but there still has to be a reason as to why (action and reaction) the husband ran off. And perhaps the reason is more direct (like you said, maybe the husband was no good or the wife was intolerable). The concept of karma isn't that unfamiliar. Cause and effect, Newton's third law, and etc.

But reincarnation makes sense because (when combined with karma) it helps give reason to the beginning of a lifetime. That is, however, if you believe that you are not the body or the mind, but an eternal soul that is unnatural to be in the material world.

I don't really believe in that hokish pokish non sense.

For me, as a Christian, people die and either go to heaven or hell. Whether if you were good and went to heaven and whether if you were bad you went to hell you don't "reincarnate" your soul remains at peace.

Ironic that you call it "hokish pokish non sense" considering it actually makes more sense than the Christian "one shot" deal.

(Sorry if that came off blunt.)

[cori-catastrophe]

i believe that everyone has a purpose in life. and i particially believe in karma.
but as far as reincarnation goes, i think it's not a very well-thought out idea.
someone on cb, whom i'm not mentioning, was debating with me earlier today about the stories in the bible being "fairytales". how can someone honestly believe that people come back as animals without having any proof whatsoever. if you ask me, it's silly.

[Simba]

Apparently, "karma" and "reincarnation" are two very misunderstood concepts here.

Karma and reincarnation are contingent. You cannot have one without the other.

[cori-catastrophe]

Apparently, "karma" and "reincarnation" are two very misunderstood concepts here.

Karma and reincarnation are contingent. You cannot have one without the other.

not quite.
karma is real. that's why people help other people rather than being selfish and greedy. you can be kind and giving and get what you deserve in return without turning into a roach or any of that pishposh.
you get back what you give.

[Simba]

not quite.
karma is real. that's why people help other people rather than being selfish and greedy. you can be kind and giving and get what you deserve in return without turning into a roach or any of that pishposh.
you get back what you give.

Hm, the real concept and purpose of karma is not very well known. Ironically, one's goal should not be to rack up good karma (or bad karma) at all.

The essence of karma is materialistic action. Obviously, there's negative actions (murder, gluttony, stealing, etc.) that'll earn you bad karma as well as positive actions (generosity, charity, etc.) that will earn you good karma. However, these are all material actions, usually done in a materialistic conscience. There are also "purified" actions done in "God-consciousness." These would actually rack up no karma, as karma is received from materialistic actions.

I'd probably have to go more in depth with that, but that's the gist of "karma," but I can go a little more in dept later if you want me to.

Karma and reincarnation are contingent. The Christian "one shot" deal cannot work with karma because most people would still have remaining karma to be "paid" which must be paid in the material world (after all, material cannot enter "Heaven" (the Kingdom of God). So, a Christian would either have to realize reincarnation or deny the truth of karma. (Note that "karma" is not directly taught in mainstream Christianity.)

[Laughsalot]

Well, I'd rather go with the "one chance" senario because I know deep down in my heart I'll be spending eternity in Heaven with God which to me is far more enjoyable than re-incarnation.

dude if there was a heaven and if you did go to it. all you would be doing for the rest of eternity in heaven is praying. it's not like some paradise by the beach. and if you don't believe me. i got this info from a former christian freind. and she's like extremely religious and knows like the bible front to back.