Creation or Evolution?, Which do you believe in? Options

[sweetangel2128]

Where do you get that from? If you're going to through something like that out there, why not back it up with proof?

Theistic Evolution is the believe that God created the phenomena that scientists are uncovering, concerning the creation of the earth... instead of believing things came together on their own. Our world is so complex, that there has to be a creator.

Actually, Theistic Evolution is a person who believes that God created the Earth but that Evolution also created the earth. Like I said you can't believe in both. You either believe God created the universe or Evolution did. Why would God create evolution? If he created the earth himself? It's like contradicting him. I am not saying to not believe in it, I don't control you but I just don't understand how you can think theistic evolution is right, the two contradict eachother. What proof do I need? I mean even look at the words creation and evolution they don't connect in anyway.

[viugiufgjhfhjfhg...]

Actually, Theistic Evolution is a person who believes that God created the Earth but that Evolution also created the earth.

No.

Someone explained it already:

Theistic evolution. God created the world and evolution took over as the process that spawned new species.

[sweetangel2128]

No.

Someone explained it already:

Well, if your talking about micro evolution I think it is where one animal turns into another animal from the same type of group but if your talking about evolution as in the creation of the earth and a rock turning into a human or animal then no. God created everything we see in our lives today and her post also said that she doesn't believe in creation which means she doesn't believe God created the earth.

Yes, God did create evolution as in evolution over time but he didn't create the "other" type of evolution.

[kimmytree]

Yes, God did create evolution as in evolution over time but he didn't create the "other" type of evolution.

That's just your opinion. Even though I'd love to criticize you for yours... why are you criticizing my views in such a sense? And how can you not believe in both? Do you really think God just waved his magical wand, and *poof*... created certain things each day over a six day time span?

When God first created light and separated light from darkness, and day from night on the first day, why did he wait to create light producing objects (the sun) on the fourth day? Where did the light come from, if it didnt come from the sun? Hahahahhh.

And how were plants created on the third day, before there was even a sun to spark photosynthesis?

[sweetangel2128]

That's just your opinion. Even though I'd love to criticize you for yours... why are you criticizing my views in such a sense? And how can you not believe in both? Do you really think God just waved his magical wand, and *poof*... created certain things each day over a six day time span?

When God first created light and separated light from darkness, and day from night on the first day, why did he wait to create light producing objects (the sun) on the fourth day? Where did the light come from, if it didnt come from the sun? Hahahahhh.

And how were plants created on the third day, before there was even a sun to spark photosynthesis?

I am not critisizing your opinions, I'm just explaining the truth. First of all, God is God and by saying it's unlikely or not possible you are denying his powers and underestimating him. Of course he's going to wave his magical wand as you put it. Think about it Kimberely, he's not human, he's God, he can do ANYTHING.

I have no answers for your Questions, maybe one day you'll get the chance to meet God and then you can ask him those Questions and he will definitly have an answer. As a Christian were not suppose to know EVERYTHING and have the answers to lifes Questions, just to follow him so we can have eternal life with him in Heaven.

I really don't care HOW he created everything, just that he did.

I cannot believe in both Evolution and Creation because they contradict eachother and it would mean that I don't take the Bible literally when I do and it would mean I am denying God's word and that's one of the worst things you can do as a Christian. As for Evolution as in creation over time of new species as in dogs into dogs, birds into birds..ect...I do believe in that and that is okay to believe in but you CAN'T believe in Evolution as in creation of the earth and God created everything because they contradict eachother.

[kimmytree]

I cannot believe in both Evolution and Creation because they contradict eachother and it would mean that I don't take the Bible literally when I do and it would mean I am denying God's word and that's one of the worst things you can do as a Christian. As for Evolution as in creation over time of new species as in dogs into dogs, birds into birds..ect...I do believe in that and that is okay to believe in but you CAN'T believe in Evolution as in creation of the earth and God created everything because they contradict eachother.

So in order to believe in God, someone has to belive in the Bible? I dont Believe in the Bible, but I do believe in God. So why cant I believe that God is responsible for what scientists are unconvering?

I have no answers for your Questions, maybe one day you'll get the chance to meet God and then you can ask him those Questions and he will definitly have an answer. As a Christian were not suppose to know EVERYTHING and have the answers to lifes Questions, just to follow him so we can have eternal life with him in Heaven.

So you refuse to question ANYTHING in the Bible? You're right, it is impossible to know everything... but just like in the questions I asked, the order the Bible says God created everything is obviously unrealistic.

[sweetangel2128]

So in order to believe in God, someone has to belive in the Bible? I dont Believe in the Bible, but I do believe in God. So why cant I believe that God is responsible for what scientists are unconvering?

So you refuse to question ANYTHING in the Bible? You're right, it is impossible to know everything... but just like in the questions I asked, the order the Bible says God created everything is obviously unrealistic.

No, I believe that the God you believe in is the God we were taught about as young kids to believe in, that there is a creator and a higher power, that's what I was brought up to believe until I realized the truth. I am not saying you can't believe in God but what I'm saying is if you deny that the Bible is God's Word your calling God a liar. If you are a Christian and believe in God but don't believe in his word your walking in blind faith (as most people would put it).

I am not saying you can't believe in that, you can believe whatever you choose to believe hence "free will" but that doesn't make it right or true.

I really don't see how it's unrealistic when were talking about a higher being, a deity; with unimaginable powers..God can do ANYTHING. Believe me, a lot of the Bible doesn't make sense to me but I know it's right because it's the Word of God and if I deny God's Word, I'm denying him and making him out to be liar.

[viugiufgjhfhjfhg...]

Well, if your talking about micro evolution I think it is where one animal turns into another animal from the same type of group but if your talking about evolution as in the creation of the earth and a rock turning into a human or animal then no. God created everything we see in our lives today and her post also said that she doesn't believe in creation which means she doesn't believe God created the earth.

Yes, God did create evolution as in evolution over time but he didn't create the "other" type of evolution.

I don't know where you stand on the issue right now, since you have just turned 180 degrees from your previous position:

Actually, Theistic Evolution is a person who believes that God created the Earth but that Evolution also created the earth.

Lets read Jake's words again:

Theistic evolution. God created the world and evolution took over as the process that spawned new species.

God created the world, then evolution occured.


Secondly; microevolution refers to small scale changes that occur within a population, either at below or at species level (depending on the concentration ratio of specimens) in a time lapse comprised of a few generations. Microevolution could explain why the butterflies of a determined zone have red wings as opposed to another group (from the same specie) that has black wings and lives in a different area.

You seem to be talking about macroevolution, but the description you give isn't accurate by any means and I don't want to assume.

[sweetangel2128]

I don't know where you stand on the issue right now, since you have just turned 180 degrees from your previous position:
Lets read Jake's words again:
God created the world, then evolution occured.
Secondly; microevolution refers to small scale changes that occur within a population, either at below or at species level (depending on the concentration ratio of specimens) in a time lapse comprised of a few generations. Microevolution could explain why the butterflies of a determined zone have red wings as opposed to another group (from the same specie) that has black wings and lives in a different area.

You seem to be talking about macroevolution, but the description you give isn't accurate by any means and I don't want to assume.

What do you mean I've changed my position? Unless you mean when I was not a Christian? People have a change of heart and people become saved everyday, I just happend to be one of those people that decided to change my life around and live for God.

Yes, God did create the world but if you believe in Evolution as in creation of the world a.k.a. Big Bang Theory (that's what I am talking about that I don't believe in). I believe in the Evolution as in the creation of new species over time however I don't believe that a dog came form a rock and so on...I believe in the different variations of species and the fact we have evolved as humans..that is the ONLY evolution I believe in.

[kimmytree]

No, I believe that the God you believe in is the God we were taught about as young kids to believe in, that there is a creator and a higher power, that's what I was brought up to believe until I realized the truth. I am not saying you can't believe in God but what I'm saying is if you deny that the Bible is God's Word your calling God a liar. If you are a Christian and believe in God but don't believe in his word your walking in blind faith (as most people would put it).

By not believing in the Bible, we're calling God a liar? What about Jews? Or Muslims? Or people of any other religion, who also believe in God? I think that's a little unfair to assume. I dont think God is going to condemn a person for not believing in a specific religion (IE, Christianity).

[viugiufgjhfhjfhg...]

What do you mean I've changed my position? Unless you mean when I was not a Christian? People have a change of heart and people become saved everyday, I just happend to be one of those people that decided to change my life around and live for God.

What are you talking about? This part of the reply has nothing to do with anything you and I have posted in this topic.

Yes, God did create the world but if you believe in Evolution as in creation of the world a.k.a. Big Bang Theory (that's what I am talking about that I don't believe in). I believe in the Evolution as in the creation of new species over time however I don't believe that a dog came form a rock and so on...I believe in the different variations of species and the fact we have evolved as humans..that is the ONLY evolution I believe in.

The Big Bang theory is not related to the Theory of Evolution, since they happen to be different scientific theories that talk about entirely different concepts.

I don't even know what are you talking about past that point, I am sorry but I can't comment on anything you have typed.

[xxlipglossxx]

Interesting....

I agree they could both be faulty...but then again, they couldn't.

Perhaps they are both somehow twisted into the fate of mankind, we just interpreted it all wrong.

[sadolakced acid]

Here's a simple analogy. imagine you have a deck of shuffled cards. heck, make it 2 decks, that's fine. Now, what are the chances that you can shuffle that deck and then it's all magically in order? very, very slim.

if fact- if i were to bet you 20 dollars that it would be in order, would you take the bet?

of course, if someone were to go in and rearrange the cards in order, what would the odds of the cards being in order?

i'm sure if i bet you 20 dollars now, you'd definately believe it.


the cards in order- that's life. the randomness- that's evolution. the person rearranging the cards- that's creationism.


so you can see how absurd evolution is. how can someone simply shuffle a deck of cards and get it perfectly in order?


of course, we're forgetting something. first off, evolution isn't about the cards somehow appearing in order. it's about a deck of cards, already ordered, having the order changed by accident.

and as far as creation of life goes- we're forgetting something. it's not just one deck being randomly shuffled.

it's billions of decks being shuffled for billions of years and one of them accidentally becoming ordered.

would you be willing to bet that? it's like the lottery- the odds of you winning is nothing. the odds of someone in america winning at some point is very, very good.

the odds of life happening on earth? nil. The odds of life happeneing, by accident and not creation, somewhere in the universe? pretty good.

that place just happened to be earth.

[sweetangel2128]

By not believing in the Bible, we're calling God a liar? What about Jews? Or Muslims? Or people of any other religion, who also believe in God? I think that's a little unfair to assume. I dont think God is going to condemn a person for not believing in a specific religion (IE, Christianity).

Yes, it's true, by not believing the Bible IS his Word you are denying him and calling him a liar. It's okay to believe in God but that's not what gets you to Heaven, it even states this in the Bible. Believe me, I used to think just believing or even not believing would get me to Heaven...but then I saw the truth and decided that's not how it really works and being that the Bible is God's Word, I'd prefer to live by that. It doesn't matter what your religion is there is only one God in this world, if you deny him, your spot in Heaven will be denied. Now, don't get me wrong I am not judging anyone here but it is the truth and I don't think I should lie to someone so they hear what they want to hear or to make them feel better about myselfs because I, myself was lied to.

[kimmytree]

^ So, then do you feel like a Jew, who stood up for their faith, and was killed as a result of Hitler / the Hollocaust is burning in hell for it? They believe in the same God we do. They even believe that a savior is going to come, just like Jesus did... they just dont believe Jesus was him.

I'm sorry, but I will NEVER be able to agree with something like that. I could never believe that my relatives who died in East Germany during WW2 are burning in hell right now. But I guess that means I'll bust hell wide open like they supposedly did.

[Simba]

Yes, it's true, by not believing the Bible IS his Word you are denying him and calling him a liar.

I'm going to have to completely and utterly disagree with this.

In the beginning, the Bible may have meant to be a scripture of God, however, either the Bible was tainted or the teachings of the Bible are misinterpreted, because some of the teachings I've seen from the Bible are just really off. In my eyes, the Bible fails to be a bona-fide scripture of God's word.

I will, however, still leave in the possibility that the original purpose of the Bible was to convey accurate teachings of God's word. Although there may be some truth in the Bible, at the least, the Bible is neither the most accurate nor the most authoritative scripture meant to communicate God's word.

[sweetangel2128]

^ So, then do you feel like a Jew, who stood up for their faith, and was killed as a result of Hitler / the Hollocaust is burning in hell for it? They believe in the same God we do. They even believe that a savior is going to come, just like Jesus did... they just dont believe Jesus was him.

I'm sorry, but I will NEVER be able to agree with something like that. I could never believe that my relatives who died in East Germany during WW2 are burning in hell right now. But I guess that means I'll bust hell wide open like they supposedly did.

I don't believe that they are in Hell because they stood up for another God and died but in the 10 commandments it says thou shall not have other idols/gods. So, if they believe in a totally different God and deny Jesus being him, they are denying the one true God. So, I guess yes they would not end up in Heaven. It is really sad and I am sorry I don't make the rules I only follow them and that's what it says, the only way to Heaven is through the father but in order to get to the father you must know Jesus (the son of God a.k.a. God).

I'm going to have to completely and utterly disagree with this.

In the beginning, the Bible may have meant to be a scripture of God, however, either the Bible was tainted or the teachings of the Bible are misinterpreted, because some of the teachings I've seen from the Bible are just really off. In my eyes, the Bible fails to be a bona-fide scripture of God's word.

I will, however, still leave in the possibility that the original purpose of the Bible was to convey accurate teachings of God's word. Although there may be some truth in the Bible, at the least, the Bible is neither the most accurate nor the most authoritative scripture meant to communicate God's word.

You can disagree all you want but it wont change the truth.

God gave us free will so your taking that free will and choosing what you believe which I have no problem with. I respect your opinions and decisions on what you make or what you believe to be true.

I may disagree and think it isn't right but I don't control you on what you think, same with kimmytree.

The original scriptures meaning the King James Version is the Word of God, the New International Version is also the Word of God but has been changed around a little bit and isn't as accurate as the King James Version because that version is closer to the original language that was used.

[kimmytree]

I don't believe that they are in Hell because they stood up for another God and died but in the 10 commandments it says thou shall not have other idols/gods. So, if they believe in a totally different God and deny Jesus being him, they are denying the one true God. So, I guess yes they would not end up in Heaven. It is really sad and I am sorry I don't make the rules I only follow them and that's what it says, the only way to Heaven is through the father but in order to get to the father you must know Jesus (the son of God a.k.a. God).

But the thing is, they arent believing in a different God. They're believing in the same God Christians do. They believe every single thing Christians believe, all the way up through the end of the Old Testament. That's obviously the same God. They just dont believe Jesus was the son of God.

From what I understand, they dont believe Jesus is the messiah, because he tried to change old Jewish law (the Old Testament) with a new law (New Testament). They believe that God's law never changes. And I think as far as Bible prophecy goes, they dont believe he fullfilled everything. Christianity branched off Judaism, so it HAS to be the same God.

[*mishyerr*]

Here's a simple analogy. imagine you have a deck of shuffled cards. heck, make it 2 decks, that's fine. Now, what are the chances that you can shuffle that deck and then it's all magically in order? very, very slim.

if fact- if i were to bet you 20 dollars that it would be in order, would you take the bet?

of course, if someone were to go in and rearrange the cards in order, what would the odds of the cards being in order?

i'm sure if i bet you 20 dollars now, you'd definately believe it.
the cards in order- that's life. the randomness- that's evolution. the person rearranging the cards- that's creationism.
so you can see how absurd evolution is. how can someone simply shuffle a deck of cards and get it perfectly in order?
of course, we're forgetting something. first off, evolution isn't about the cards somehow appearing in order. it's about a deck of cards, already ordered, having the order changed by accident.

and as far as creation of life goes- we're forgetting something. it's not just one deck being randomly shuffled.

it's billions of decks being shuffled for billions of years and one of them accidentally becoming ordered.

would you be willing to bet that? it's like the lottery- the odds of you winning is nothing. the odds of someone in america winning at some point is very, very good.

the odds of life happening on earth? nil. The odds of life happeneing, by accident and not creation, somewhere in the universe? pretty good.

that place just happened to be earth.

Will someone please respond to this?
I am interested in what people have to say about this analogy.
Imo, I think it's an "absurd" analogy, and I have nothing more to say than that. I do not have any 'evidence' to back up my opinion, either. I just think that evolution is not even similar, in any shape or form, to stacking up cards in order.

[viugiufgjhfhjfhg...]

The original scriptures meaning the King James Version is the Word of God

Wowee Zowee, now that finally explains it all.

[kimmytree]

Will someone please respond to this?
I am interested in what people have to say about this analogy.
Imo, I think it's an "absurd" analogy, and I have nothing more to say than that. I do not have any 'evidence' to back up my opinion, either. I just think that evolution is not even similar, in any shape or form, to stacking up cards in order.

I actually find his analogy quite interesting.

I really dont have much to add on it, because I think he explained it quite nicely.

I agree with his analogy though.

[*mishyerr*]

I actually find his analogy quite interesting.

I really dont have much to add on it, because I think he explained it quite nicely.

I agree with his analogy though.

But by giving humans free-will, isn't that like stacking the cards randomly? From what I remember about Christianity, God does not control our decisions. And if there are soo many humans with so many decisions to make, doesn't that mean that things are on a random track versus a set, straight path?

(Sorry, I normally try to refrain from posting in debates with God as an issue because I am not nearly as knowledgeable about religion and other theories as others.)

[sweetangel2128]

But the thing is, they arent believing in a different God. They're believing in the same God Christians do. They believe every single thing Christians believe, all the way up through the end of the Old Testament. That's obviously the same God. They just dont believe Jesus was the son of God.

From what I understand, they dont believe Jesus is the messiah, because he tried to change old Jewish law (the Old Testament) with a new law (New Testament). They believe that God's law never changes. And I think as far as Bible prophecy goes, they dont believe he fullfilled everything. Christianity branched off Judaism, so it HAS to be the same God.

First of all, dang your quick. LOL.

Anyways, it says in the Bible the only way to the Father is through Jesus who is in fact God. I was always taught that if you believe in God and believed that Jesus is the son of God then you will make it to Heaven but you also have to abide by the commandments, try not to sin and also be baptised in Jesus' name to see the Kingdom of God.

I think it's great that these people follow most of the story but the thing they are failing is believing that Jesus isn't God and that's bad because the Bible clearly states that he is God. I am not saying that person will go to Heaven as I am quite unsure but I don't honestly think that would count because if they don't believe that Jesus is God they are denying God's Word because it says it in the Bible clearly. But like I said I really don't know who goes to Heaven and who doesn't..I am not God and only God can judge a person, I am just going off of what the scripture says.

I was actually surprised you said Jews believe in the same God as Christians because I was always taught by my old church that Jews have totally different beliefs than Christians.

But by giving humans free-will, isn't that like stacking the cards randomly? From what I remember about Christianity, God does not control our decisions. And if there are soo many humans with so many decisions to make, doesn't that mean that things are on a random track versus a set, straight path?

True. God doesn't control our decisions, he gives us options such as an example "Heaven or Hell"...we make the decisions.

[Simba]

Will someone please respond to this?
I am interested in what people have to say about this analogy.
Imo, I think it's an "absurd" analogy, and I have nothing more to say than that. I do not have any 'evidence' to back up my opinion, either. I just think that evolution is not even similar, in any shape or form, to stacking up cards in order.

A similar analogy was used in The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins, specifically stating that, "God is the Ultimate 747." This is alluding Fred Hoyle who stated, "...probability of life originating on earth is no greater than the chance that a hurricane sweeping through a scrap-yard would have the luck to assemble a Boeing 747." The argument was basically referring to the argument against God's perfection, "God is so complex that he must have a creator as well."

So the same analogy could pretty much be used both ways.

Wowee Zowee, now that finally explains it all.

Exactly, Heather.

What evidence is there to back the Bible besides the Bible itself?

[sweetangel2128]

Exactly, Heather.

What evidence is there to back the Bible besides the Bible itself?

Well, the Bible was put together from scriptures that were found and thought to be old and they also have a shroud in display that they tested that was said to have existed around the same time as Jesus, it fits the Bible so they did prove that Jesus did exist and the cloth proves it, it also proved his crusifixtion. Other then that, that's all the proof there is right now. The thing that annoys me the most though is people are ALWAYS wanting proof when it's right there, the scrolls and the cloth. What more proof do you need? What would be proof to you? If it's God standing in front of you saying "It's real, it's true, I'm God" your never going to get that except maybe on your judgement day when it's too late. I mean if they find another piece of evidence are you going to deny that as evidence too? Sorry, it just frustrates me when people are like: "I want proof proof proof" even though proof was handed to them on a silver platter, the bible, the scrolls, the cloth, Jesus himself who did miracles in front of people's eyes 2,000 years ago or so and they still didn't believe it. Sometimes believing isn't always seeing. And from what I hear they are searching for the holy grail which is the cup that caught Jesus' blood.