Creation or Evolution?, Which do you believe in? Options

[*kryogenix*]

That's very interesting. I'm glad you pointed it out.

That 8x10 film has less than twice the resolution of the eye. That 8x10 film was specifically designed to have that kind of resolution. That 8x10 film is not made of flesh.

So, my question is still outstanding: Will no one stand up for their faith in the theory of evolution and clearly state that they believe that the human eye just happened to "evolve" to have such amazing resolution and that it wasn't DESIGNED (as the 8x10 film was) ?

Here's an extra point to consider: The camera that takes this 8x10 image and the best digital camera -- can they repair themselves ? Scratch the lens on these cameras and you have to get a new lens. Scratch the cornea of your eye (not major damage, of course) and it'll heal itself. How many millions of years do you think it took to "evolve" that feature ?

Evolution doesn't explain why something evolves, just "how" it does. It changes over time, that's all.

Give the camera designers a few million years and maybe they'll be able to make one that can

Christianity is believing in the God of the Bible. The God of the Bible says that He's the God who created all things -- seen and unseen. If you don't believe that He created all things, then you don't believe He is who He says He is. So, one of two things: (1) You're calling Him a liar, or (2) You've created a different god in your mind that isn't the God of the Bible.

Which do you align yourself with...
(1) the God of the Bible, or
(2) the god of evolution

The god of evolution says that your death is natural and necessary. It's the whole "circle of life" thing. This god says that through the death of all things, progress occurs. This god says that there is random judgment -- you're a product of random mutation and natural selection. This god says that there is nothing about you that is precious -- humans just happened to "evolve" to where we are today.

The God of the Bible says that you have a soul that will live forever. This God says that there is righteous judment based on a set of basic rules. This God says that your fine can be paid for breaking these rules if you believe Him and if you show your love for Him. He also says that your fine will not be paid if you choose to reject Him. This God says that you're priceless to Him -- so much so, that He sent His own Son to die to pay for the fine of each of us breaking His Laws.

Which do you align yourself with ?

I believe that God created the world. That has nothing to do with evolution though. Creation is how the world was formed, evolution is how species are the way they are today.

Doesn't the Bible also say that our deaths are natural and necessary as well? Ashes to ashes, dust to dust... Jesus death was necessary wasn't it?

Scott, I think your intentions are good, but you're arguing against the wrong thing. Believing that God created the world and believing in evolution are not mutually exclusive. There is no incompatibility between the two.

[*disco infiltrator*]

Tell that all to the Christians that say non-Believers who believe in Evolution, believe Evolution is what created the earth. Like the definition says Evolution is based over time.

Ok, I will. The Big Bang Theory and the evolutionary theory are not the same thing, nor do they cover the same topics, nor are they related at all. Sure, a lot of people who accept the evolutionary theory accept the Big Bang Theory as well, but they are not conjoined.

[sweetangel2128]

Ok, I will. The Big Bang Theory and the evolutionary theory are not the same thing, nor do they cover the same topics, nor are they related at all. Sure, a lot of people who accept the evolutionary theory accept the Big Bang Theory as well, but they are not conjoined.

Well, yeah it's kinda like what I was saying, God and Evolution are totally different form one another one because were talking about God creating the earth and well evolution is not about creation of the earth and how it came to be but about how things became the way they are over time.

Evolution doesn't explain why something evolves, just "how" it does. It changes over time, that's all.

Give the camera designers a few million years and maybe they'll be able to make one that can
I believe that God created the world. That has nothing to do with evolution though. Creation is how the world was formed, evolution is how species are the way they are today.

Doesn't the Bible also say that our deaths are natural and necessary as well? Ashes to ashes, dust to dust... Jesus death was necessary wasn't it?

Scott, I think your intentions are good, but you're arguing against the wrong thing. Believing that God created the world and believing in evolution are not mutually exclusive. There is no incompatibility between the two.

I totally agree. One other thing I need to point out about Scott is that he seems to think when we say evolution that that implys a different God created that. Just because we say we believe in evolution doesn't mean we believe in a "different" God. I believe if there is a God there's only one not HUNDREDS of them lmao.

Hey are you a Christian? If so, your the first Christian that actually believes in what evolution really stands for well the first one that I've ran into..amazing =]

[the-sydney327]

I beleive that God Created the prosess of evolution. I think that each time we "evolved" it was an upgrade to who we are today. Just think of what we may become in the future! things that we are not even capable of thinking of....that is if what i beleive is true.

[Kontroll]

theory:
a plausible or scientifically acceptable general principle or body of principles offered to explain phenomena

It is a theory because it is a bunch of conclusions drawn from plenty of observed evidence that was documented based on a certain hypothesis, not because it isn't real. It may be a theory, but it basically has been proven, and if you dispute it, I'm sorry, but you're an idiot.

And the theory of evolution, again, says NOTHING about the origin of the Earth, so if we could begin to try to leave that out of the debate, that would be splendid.

We don't know that evolution is true. We don't know creation is true. That's why they are theories. We cannot observe history. We can't tell by fossils. Fossils just show us certain animals at certain time periods. Evolution isn't scientifically observable, therefore a theory.

[sweetangel2128]

We don't know that evolution is true. We don't know creation is true. That's why they are theories. We cannot observe history. We can't tell by fossils. Fossils just show us certain animals at certain time periods. Evolution isn't scientifically observable, therefore a theory.

Exactly and that's how Faith comes into play =]

[Stuckie]

[size=1]theory:
a plausible or scientifically acceptable general principle or body of principles offered to explain phenomena

It is a theory because it is a bunch of conclusions drawn from plenty of observed evidence that was documented based on a certain hypothesis, not because it isn't real. It may be a theory, but it basically has been proven, and if you dispute it, I'm sorry, but you're an idiot.
size]

Just because something is plausible doesn't make it true. Evolution is a theory. It will forever remain a theory because it can't be proven. What proof does anyone have that evolution is true? There isn't any.

I would type more but Im tired.

[NoSex]

Just because something is plausible doesn't make it true. Evolution is a theory. It will forever remain a theory because it can't be proven. What proof does anyone have that evolution is true? There isn't any.

I would type more but Im tired.

You haven't paid much attention, whether that be because you refuse to or because you are incapable of such is beyond me: still, you clearly haven't paid much attention.

Evolution itself is not a theory, it's a fact. That evolution has occurred is a fact. We know evolution happens, we've observed it. We've seen speciation. We've seen it in nature, and in the lab. We know it happens. It is an observed and documented phenomenon. It's much like the "theory of gravity." That objects fall to the earth is a well known and documented phenomenon. That certainly isn't a "theory." That's a fact. However, the mechanisms in which that occurs is indeed a theory. It's the theory of gravity, and as of now, it's the best explanation we have for an observed phenomenon, and there is no real good reason we shouldn't adopt such an explanation: especially not for a useless, meaningless, and nonsensical explanation such as "God did it." So, much like gravity, evolution is a fact. However, the mechanisms in which it occurs (genetic drift, natural selection, mutation, etc. etc.) are theories.

If you want to argue the scope and capacity of evolution, you'll be arguing against an immense heap of evidence. We know it happens, and we have no reason to believe otherwise. Further, we have all the reason to believe it's what is to blame for our great diversity of life. Scientific facts aren't exactly certainties either. And, at this point of straw grasping, how bout we all just accept relativism as an epistemological theory? Sounds great, right?

[Kontroll]

Show me some facts. I've heard all about them, just never seen them before. Thanks.

[Stuckie]

Its not called the "theory of gravity" but the law of gravity. Its called law because they are absolute or inarguable facts. In other words, they've been proven. If you need a more reliable source click here to see how wikipedia defines law of science.

You haven't paid much attention, whether that be because you refuse to or because you are incapable of such is beyond me: still, you clearly haven't paid much attention.

Evolution itself is not a theory, it's a fact. That evolution has occurred is a fact. We know evolution happens, we've observed it. We've seen speciation. We've seen it in nature, and in the lab. We know it happens. It is an observed and documented phenomenon. It's much like the "theory of gravity." That objects fall to the earth is a well known and documented phenomenon. That certainly isn't a "theory." That's a fact. However, the mechanisms in which that occurs is indeed a theory. It's the theory of gravity, and as of now, it's the best explanation we have for an observed phenomenon, and there is no real good reason we shouldn't adopt such an explanation: especially not for a useless, meaningless, and nonsensical explanation such as "God did it." So, much like gravity, evolution is a fact. However, the mechanisms in which it occurs (genetic drift, natural selection, mutation, etc. etc.) are theories.

If you want to argue the scope and capacity of evolution, you'll be arguing against an immense heap of evidence. We know it happens, and we have no reason to believe otherwise. Further, we have all the reason to believe it's what is to blame for our great diversity of life. Scientific facts aren't exactly certainties either. And, at this point of straw grasping, how bout we all just accept relativism as an epistemological theory? Sounds great, right?

I read your post thoroughly. And as many times as you say evolution is not a theory and that its fact and that there is an "immense heap of evidence", you failed to show us any. Thats either because you typed so much saying its already proven, that its fact, and that there is load of evidence that you forgot to show us proof and give facts or evidence, or there isn't a way to prove the Theory of Evolution.

[Mulder]

I read your post thoroughly. And as many times as you say evolution is not a theory and that its fact and that there is an "immense heap of evidence", you failed to show us any. Thats either because you typed so much saying its already proven, that its fact, and that there is load of evidence that you forgot to show us proof and give facts or evidence, or there isn't a way to prove the Theory of Evolution.

well...evolution is happening right now, not just 5 million years ago. humans are not following dosing instructions on their antibiotics, so the bacteria (whatever it happens to be) becomes develops a resistance to the antibiotic. When the bacteria reproduces (fission), a trait for the resistance is passed on. The frequency of bacteria with the resistance allele will be much higher than that of the bacteria with no resistance.

*bows*

[NoSex]

well...evolution is happening right now, not just 5 million years ago. humans are not following dosing instructions on their antibiotics, so the bacteria (whatever it happens to be) becomes develops a resistance to the antibiotic. When the bacteria reproduces (fission), a trait for the resistance is passed on. The frequency of bacteria with the resistance allele will be much higher than that of the bacteria with no resistance.

*bows*

No, no, the problem is people can't read.

[Stuckie]

well...evolution is happening right now, not just 5 million years ago. humans are not following dosing instructions on their antibiotics, so the bacteria (whatever it happens to be) becomes develops a resistance to the antibiotic. When the bacteria reproduces (fission), a trait for the resistance is passed on. The frequency of bacteria with the resistance allele will be much higher than that of the bacteria with no resistance.

*bows*

Before you congratulate yourself, you just gave an example of adaptation, not evolution.

A little history fun fact The idea of adaptation was introduced by a French Biologist named Jean-Baptiste Pierre Antoine de Monet, Chevalier de Lamarck (thats one hell of a name). Adaptation is also refered to as Lamarckism.

[*mipadi*]

Its not called the "theory of gravity" but the law of gravity. Its called law because they are absolute or inarguable facts. In other words, they've been proven. If you need a more reliable source click here to see how wikipedia defines law of science.

You're misunderstanding "law" and "theory". The Law of Universal Gravitation defines an equation relating to gravitation forces; the Theory of Gravitation is an explanation of how gravity actually works.

[NoSex]

[quote name='Stuckie' date='Mar 9 2007, 3:17 AM' post='2486449']
Before you congratulate yourself, you just gave an example of adaptation, not evolution.[quote]

Adaptation is a mechanism of evolution.

"A biological adaptation is an anatomical structure, physiological process or behavioral trait of an organism that has [i]evolved over a period of time by the process of natural selection such that it increases the expected long-term reproductive success of the organism. The term adaptation is also sometimes used as a synonym for natural selection, but most biologists discourage this usage."[/i] [1]

Adaptation often is evolution. And, the example of bacteria shows an observed instance of allele differentiation within a given population, or evolution. It is evolution.

[quote name='Stuckie' date='Mar 9 2007, 3:17 AM' post='2486449']
A little history fun fact The idea of adaptation was introduced by a French Biologist named Jean-Baptiste Pierre Antoine de Monet, Chevalier de Lamarck (thats one hell of a name). Adaptation is also refered to as Lamarckism.
[/quote]

What we know and recognize as adaptation today is far different than what Lamarck had presented as the theory of adaptation or the inheritance of acquired characters. Adaptation is not Lamarckism. Lamarckism states that a given species can adopt temporally acquired traits and pass them on to the next generation. For example, giraffes do not have long necks because of a gradual process of evolution which ensured that those giraffes who did have longer necks were more fit for survival. Giraffes, given Lamarckism, actually stretched their own necks out during their lifetime and because of this stretching, later generations also had long necks. We know this isn't true. Acquired traits are not hereditary. If your father was a muscle builder, that does not mean that you will be born with muscles.

So, you're wrong. And, so was Lamarck.

[Stuckie]

So, much like gravity, evolution is a fact. However, the mechanisms in which it occurs (genetic drift, natural selection, mutation, etc. etc.) are theories.

Evolution is the big picture and the mechanisms are like subcategories of evolution. If the mechanisms that make up the whole evolution idea are theories, then evolution is a theory.

[Simba]

Evolution is the big picture and the mechanisms are like subcategories of evolution. If the mechanisms that make up the whole evolution idea are theories, then evolution is a theory.

I believe the point that he is trying to get across to you is that it's a proven fact that evolution does indeed happen. How exactly it happens, however, is another story.

If compared to gravity (which was what he was doing), there can be a law of evolution and theory of evolution. It's the details that each covers that are different.

[Mulder]

actually, i was showing bacterial evolution based upon their successful adaptations.

but honestly, i doubt that any sound arguments will ever change your (directed at the group as a whole) minds, so, have fun.

[Aerjae]

I don't believe in evolution. I believe that God created us and everything else.

[NoSex]

I don't believe in evolution. I believe that God created us and everything else.

Oh, wow, that's great.
SUPPORT or GTFO.

[sweetangel2128]

I don't believe in evolution. I believe that God created us and everything else.

I agree. But I also think that Evolution does exist because Evolution is not the creation of the earth and first humans but evolution is the creation of new species over generations meaning over time.

[*I Viddy Horrorshow*]

Evolution is the big picture and the mechanisms are like subcategories of evolution. If the mechanisms that make up the whole evolution idea are theories, then evolution is a theory.

3,000 years ago, there were people around. However, they lacked the technology to observe the fundamental make up of human beings, such as cells. Some of them may have had a theory about cells, but they couldn't prove it.

However, no one used that as an excuse to try and say that humans were only a theory, and that we may not exist because we didn't understand everything about ourselves.

You don't need to understand or proove every mechanism fully to know that the big picture is accurate and factual.

[Stuckie]

If evolution is fact, what did we start out as?. You say we were not created as we are today, but instead we became what we are over time. Which means we had to come from something. What did we start out as?

[sweetangel2128]

If evolution is fact, what did we start out as?. You say we were not created as we are today, but instead we became what we are over time. Which means we had to come from something. What did we start out as?

We started as humans, God created humans and the first animals but when I say evolution over time I mean theres different dogs, different birds...that sorta thing. That is the evolution I am talking about. Such as humans, we've all evolved.

[kameron]

Creation!
there is more proof on creation than evolution.