vexeling and vectoring, A different take on what it looks like. Options

[Ktru]

Hey everyone, there just something that's been bothering me about the forum's ethnic on vexeling and vectoring (which I will call Vextor).

So i'm browsing this forums and I'm looking at all the vextoring of people pictures and I'm thinking to myself gosh these people suck. Why is it that 99% of all the vextor images soo layery? Vexels and vectors are suppost to look flat aren't they?

Maybe you're new to vexeling or vectoring and so you're following the shapes that was created when you desaturate. But it seems like the popular notion of vectoring and vexeling is just to follow the shapes created by photoshop.

I think of graphic design as a form of art. Learning how to vexel and vector is hard because it takes time to learn what kind of shapes you need to make and what kind of opacity the shape should be. To make a good vextor you need to learn the basics ( how to desaturate. how to create shapes, how to blend the layers, etc) after you have that what you do with the vectoring should be up to you. Experiment with the color and shapes to create something different.

Here's a tutorial that I thought was great on vextoring. Can someone else provide their tutorial so I can see what they're doing?

http://www.melissaclifton.com/tutorial-vector.html

let me know what your take on this is

[*mona lisa*]

Not sure if they're supposed to look flat.

I draw what I see and modify it later but here are a few tutorials I've used in the past:
http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/26534736/
http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/22403733/

I'll provide links for tutorials when I'm at home but take a look at these vextors (heh, I'll just use your term):
http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/49265057/
http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/35602026/
http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/45044082/
http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/42834464/
http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/38595148/
http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/13018484/
http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/30849458/
http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/49660240/

The last four are more "flat" than the others. The others are more realistic and detailed. Whatever suits you, I suppose.

[*[2]Nekked*]

. Why is it that 99% of all the vextor images soo layery? Vexels and vectors are suppost to look flat aren't they?

after you have that what you do with the vectoring should be up to you.

You may have contradicted yourself there. Many people like their vectors to be "Layery" to have more of a 3D effect. Some like their vectors flat for a more cartoony effect. Some like to be more creative with their vectors and dont follow any guidelines at all or have mixed "layery" and "flat" elements.

I can give you examples of my own work that apply to each technique.

Layery: http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/24468882/
Cartoony: http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/15269229/
Mixed, No Guides: http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/37630318

All in all, it's up to the designer. There's no right or wrong way. It's art, like you said.

[*Intercourse.*]

I'll have to provide some links later. But I remember viewing that tutorial when I first started vectoring or the second time I tried doing it and I didn't like the outcome at all I guess I've never really liked the 'flat' effect that they gave out, so the more layers as Trish said does give out more of a 3-d effect which is what people want in a lot of cases. I wouldn't say that they suck, although its your opinion and everyone is entitled to their own.

[Ktru]

Mona lisa's tutorials on vectors is the area that I head with my vextors. It's more organic and flat and the images turn out crisp and clean at the end, without the layery look.

You may have contradicted yourself there. Many people like their vectors to be "Layery" to have more of a 3D effect

I don't think it's necessarily a contradiction. You can have the 3d effect without having the layery look. It's just how you change the opacity on the shapes that makes them blend well.


Layery: http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/24468882/

I think it's awesome except for the area where there's skin. The piece does not suck, but it lacks cohesiveness ya know? Your whole picture is flat but then when it comes to skin it becomes layery and it stands out. OF course each person's vision of their work is different and unique which is the purpose of art. But you are in essence calling it a certain type of art, and there are certain guidelines to it. What I mean by that is you wouldn't call a painting painting unless it uses paint right? You wouldn't call something cubism if it was organic right?

Cartoony: http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/15269229/

I wouldn't consider this vextoring at all because of it's just 2d shapes it's not creating any kind of dimensional feel through the shapes. If I saw this randomly somewhere i would think that it was painted or just drawn. Although you're using vextoring techniques to create it, it shouldn't necessarily be considered vextoring. Plus you have lines which is not something used in vextoring.

Yea I agree that it's art so it's up to the designer. But you're not just calling it art, you're calling it a certain art. When you label it shouldn't you ensure it follows the style?

I guess I've never really liked the 'flat' effect that they gave out, so the more layers as Trish said does give out more of a 3-d effect which is what people want in a lot of cases

The point of vectoring is not to create more layers to bring out the 3d effect but to make the 3d effect through various colors and shapes, I think that's the point I'm trying to get at. Maybe this is just my interpretation of the style?

[*[2]Nekked*]

Do you know what vectoring is? Because when you say:

What I mean by that is you wouldn't call a painting painting unless it uses paint right?

There are different styles of painting. Theres abstract, cubism, expressionism, fauvism, impressionism, pointillism, post impressionism, realism, surrealism, etc, etc, etc.

You can use paint for all styles.

There are different styles of vector.

Abstract, portraits, still life, etc.

There are different styles of vector portraits.

high contrast portraits (like my hyori), 3d (i.e. gradient mesh), cartoony, etc.

It's up to the designer, and their preference.

Your "interpretation" is not of THE style, it's of A style.


Maybe if you were a little more educated about the subject, you would understand the point i'm trying to get across. Allow me to educate you.

Vector graphics is the use of geometrical primitives such as points, lines, curves, and polygons to represent images in computer graphics. It is used by contrast to the term raster graphics, which is the representation of images as a collection of pixels.

Vexelling is a term coined to define using raster shapes to IMITATE vector.

So your idea of "vextor" being limited to a certain "flat" style is, in my opinion, wrong.


And I do have to say, you're a little out of line. Maybe if you'd post some links of your work, I could pick it a part and point out its flaws according to MY interpretation of style.

And no one on this forum claims to be an expert in creating "vextors." There will be flaws in their work. It's a learning experience. A major fraction of this forum is to help people LEARN about this stuff. I'm sorry, but outright telling us that most of the work here sucks makes you seem like an ass, ESPECIALLY since most of us have never seen YOUR work. I'm sure you're not REALLY an ass, but it may interest you to keep a closer eye on how you allow yourself to be portrayed. And with that said, I'm done with this thread, as it no longer interests me to continue reading.

Ahem. No offense.

[Ktru]

Maybe if you were a little more educated about the subject, you would understand the point i'm trying to get across. Allow me to educate you.

Why yes please do educate me, I really would like to see where you got the idea of vectoring from

Vector graphics is the use of geometrical primitives such as points, lines, curves, and polygons to represent images in computer graphics. It is used by contrast to the term raster graphics, which is the representation of images as a collection of pixels.

why yes I can see that on wikipedia, and yes that is the basic term of a vector written for a general audience by general people.

So your idea of "vextor" being limited to a certain "flat" style is, in my opinion, wrong.

Who said i was limiting it to a flat style? I'm telling you that 3d style is not done in the proper way. If you're trying to acheive realism from vectors then that's not vectors that's realism.

And I do have to say, you're a little out of line. Maybe if you'd post some links of your work, I could pick it a part and point out its flaws according to MY interpretation of style.

Maybe I am out of line and I will be posting images so you can " pick apart things you don't like"

And no one on this forum claims to be an expert in creating "vextors." There will be flaws in their work. It's a learning experience. A major fraction of this forum is to help people LEARN about this stuff..

neither am I, and I did say it was a learning experience that's why I made this post. It's to guide others into the basic area before they're making mistakes. All the threads I've looked at has shown people appraising work but not criticizing it. No one here is an expert, but if everyone just passes everything as great, no one will know that their work "sucks". Yes it's harsh to be told your work sucks, but it sucks even more when you think your work is professional when it just sucks.

I'm sorry, but outright telling us that most of the work here sucks makes you seem like an ass, ESPECIALLY since most of us have never seen YOUR work. I'm sure you're not REALLY an ass, but it may interest you to keep a closer eye on how you allow yourself to be portrayed

Maybe I do appear like an ass, that's not something that concerns me. What does concerns me is the general consensus that's going on about certain design.

And with that said, I'm done with this thread, as it no longer interests me to continue reading.

Why would you not visit a thread?Are you mad that someone called your work crap? Or are you infuriated that some punk ass just criticized your work? This is a learning experience we're all here to learn and yes I don't have anything up. I am new to the forums, but I do plan to post things up as time goes on. But that doesn't make my opinion any less valid. I have been working with graphics since freshmen year of high school I do know what I'm talking about. Oh and please if you don't like criticism don't stick your stuff online where everyone can see it, cause really you're asking to me criticized when you publicize your graphics.

Ahem. No offense.

same here, bitch

[Blaqheartedstar]

no need to call anyone a "bitch"... isn't the whole point to this thread to tell us about vectors?

critizing people on their work when u supply none of your own gives u no right to bash on [2]Nekked

[*[2]Nekked*]

Aww sweety. I'm not mad. I find you mildly entertaining. Been doing this since highschool? How about been doing this since middleschool, majored in it in college and now doing it for a living fulltime and making bank?

And, not just wikipedia, love. It originated from a text book. Many text books, in fact. Text books that we're forced to read in college, and that definition I cited is something commited to memory.

Is there a proper and improper way to design? It's art, silly. Think about all the people that told Picasso he was doing it all wrong. You're following right into the footsteps of people that are now ridiculed and frowned upon in vast collections of Art History text books.

I notice that you havent supplied a retort to the logical explanations of vector design i have so kindly provided you with. Either way you should calm down.

Kthx.

And once more, with feeling: I'm done with this thread. This is my last response. Your views were entertaining at first, but now you're just not being very nice.

[*mona lisa*]

Is there a proper and improper way to design? It's art, silly. Think about all the people that told Picasso he was doing it all wrong.

Ditto.

I don't see why art cannot "evolve". Although I'm not an expert on vector graphics, I've never heard of vectors being limited to flat, 2D shapes.

Best way to set yourself apart is by doing something different.

[Ktru]

Aww sweety. I'm not mad. I find you mildly entertaining.

Aww really?! The feeling is soooo mutual right now

It's art, silly. Think about all the people that told Picasso he was doing it all wrong. You're following right into the footsteps of people that are now ridiculed and frowned upon in vast collections of Art History text books.

Ridiculed? Wow I wouldn't go that far and call it ridiculed, more like unmemorable because their art doesn't stand out.

I notice that you havent supplied a retort to the logical explanations of vector design i have so kindly provided you with. Either way you should calm down.

There is nothing to retort to, your views are yours and mine are mine. You call it tomatoe I call it ketchup. All in all it's the same thing. I'm very calm btw what made you think that I'm not?

And once more, with feeling: I'm done with this thread. This is my last response. Your views were entertaining at first, but now you're just not being very nice.

Hmm that's what I thought that's why I added something at the end of my post thought you'd come back and respond. Oh hey look you did Oh ya forgot to mention i'm not a very nice person. That's why we have mods to keep me in check, i prefer chaos it's more fun

no need to call anyone a "bitch"... isn't the whole point to this thread to tell us about vectors?

critizing people on their work when u supply none of your own gives u no right to bash on [2]Nekked

Oh but you see there was a need and it achieved it's purpose. Besides I don't see what your post contributed to this thread wouldn't that be spam? I've also responded to your comment on the post before yours, thanks for taking the time to read it

Ditto.

I don't see why art cannot "evolve". Although I'm not an expert on vector graphics, I've never heard of vectors being limited to flat, 2D shapes.

Best way to set yourself apart is by doing something different.

There's no question about that. Of course everyone should do things differently, it's art i agree completely. From what I hear this forums is for learning and after looking through it I'm constantly bombarded with the same style of vector left and right it gets really boring mostly because everyone appears to be following photoshop's rendered image instead of learning to create their own rendered image in there own head.

If you're learning it one way and not exposed to other methods then you'll always do your vextors that way. I'm just trying to shed light on more proper starting methods. You can do what you want after you have grasp knowledge of style. I just don't want everyone on the forum to think it's okay to always make vextors based off rendered photos in photoshop.

Oo nekked you're a funny bitch ill always remember

-signed ass

p.s. I hope you don't take offense to this if so let me know

[Blaqheartedstar]

Oh but you see there was a need and it achieved it's purpose. Besides I don't see what your post contributed to this thread wouldn't that be spam? I've also responded to your comment on the post before yours, thanks for taking the time to read it

had i not read it and just posted a comment with no back up then it will be spam... what can i possibly say about vectors when you summed up just about everything?
i was just trying to get things back on track... ending it like u did would of started a fight with someone who would of taken it personally.

[xtrancie]

my first one came out pretty crappy

look at my signature >_>

[Blaqheartedstar]

its better then what i can do.. u know how to work the pen tool 10000000 times better then i can

[*IVIike*]

yeah trancie your great i suck at the pen tool as well i'm trying to get better though

[xtrancie]

there's a trick O_O

[Blaqheartedstar]

and that will be?

[*StanleyThePanda*]

same here, bitch

*ahem*

PERSONAL ATTACKS
Flaming, trolling, member bashing-you name it-will not be tolerated here. If you're making an argument, it's always better to retort with reason and composure. Personal attacks are childish and have no place in these forums.

Please refrain from name-calling. This is your verbal warning, Ktru.


Anyways, I'd have to agree with Trish on this issue. It's definitely up to the artist what the outcome looks like.

[Ktru]

my first one came out pretty crappy

look at my signature >_>

actually it turn out really nice. I would even say it's better then nekked! The skin doesn't stand out, and you kept the layering to a minimum. What makes it so bad?

[phoenixpyre]

i have an idea! why dont we get back on topic and stop name calling! YAY!

[Gypsy Eyes]

Honestly, I think that the example you provided looks horrible. It looks rough and like a fourth grader did it.

The whole point of a vector it to smoothly go between lights and darks. Without layers this just (usually) comes out bad. Some experienced graphic artists can do the minimal technique, but not many. Most of the time it comes out looking like crap.

[Ktru]

The whole point of a vector it to smoothly go between lights and darks.

What do you exactly do you mean by this? Are you saying that the point of vectoring is that it achieves gradient like transitions from light to dark?

[datass]

^There's no 'point' to vectoring, it's not like there's this one way to vector and if you don't do it that way, it's not good enough.

[xtrancie]

wow is this a vector war or something? O_O

[Blaqheartedstar]

omg.. this should be closed... its turning into more of an fight then anything else...

bottom line there is NO right way or wrong way to vector everyone has a style of their own END OF STORY