gay and christian, can it happen? Options

[sweetangel2128]

i did say it might not change. but...it still has potential to change so...

yeah.

I know that I was just pointing out an example

[femmefatale4160]

I think that it's definitely possible. I am a Christian, and I have a large number of gay, bisexual and lesbian friends. Not only do they respect my beliefs, but a few of them wish to understand more about it. I believe that religion is (in some ways) open to interpretation, and I don't think there's anything wrong with homosexuality. I believe that people are born that way, and if you're a Christian, you believe that Jesus loves everyone. How could I call God "great" if I believed that he persecuted people for something they had no control over?

[hitoshirezukizu]

Agreed. There's nothing wrong at all with homosexuality. Though I am not Christian (I am Agnostic), I also do believe that some parts of the Bible are open to interpretation. (Though I don't claim to know everything in the Bible, I certainly don't. I wish to understand more about it by reading it or something of those means.)

I also agree with the fact that you're born gay, and that you realise it over time, whether it's in your teens or past your prime. It's not something you "choose"...you don't wake up one day and think to yourself, Today I've decided that I'm gay. Also I agree with the fact that how can God "love all" and be called "magnificent" if he persecuted people that just loved somebody different than you.

[sweetangel2128]

Well in the Bible it says that "homosexuality" is a sin but I think that in the beginning it probably was a sin because God created man and woman, not man and man and not woman and woman...but later on something happend and homosexuality just happend therefore, it's not a sin.

[femmefatale4160]

Heath, you are brilliant.

Yesterday I was talking to one of my bisexual friends and she said that after doing a lot of research, she concluded that homosexuality has to do with a deviation in the brain and that gay people must be born that way.

Therefore, it can't be a sin because it's not a conscious decision.

[sweetangel2128]

Heath, you are brilliant.

Yesterday I was talking to one of my bisexual friends and she said that after doing a lot of research, she concluded that homosexuality has to do with a deviation in the brain and that gay people must be born that way.

Therefore, it can't be a sin because it's not a conscious decision.

HAHA thanks.

Well, I was always brought up to believe that it was a chemical imbalance of hormones that cause the person to be gay. Not everyone is born that way a lot of people make that choice BUT there are lots that don't. I think in the beginning God probably didn't create it but I know things do happen later on things that were not in God's plan. For example, maybe God had no intent on creating evolution but it just happend...we started to slowly evolve.

[femmefatale4160]

You're still brilliant.

[kimmytree]

Woah, we were just talking about this today in my American history class... its a Christian school, so my opinions didnt really go with everyone elses. heh.

I think its very possible. First off, I dont think people can help being gay. But according to the Christian faith, being gay IS a sin, and we're all born having a sinful nature. According to most of the Christians I talk to, all sins are equal in God's eyes. So in a way, living your life gay is no more sinful than living your life telling lies all the time. And either way, being a Christian, and "saved", you're forgiven for your sins. So idk.

Haha I dont agree with the Christian faith at all.But I dont think it matters either way... I dont think people just "choose" to be gay. Just like people are born bipolar, or with any other problems - you could just as easily be born gay.

[*Uronacid*]

Well in the Bible it says that "homosexuality" is a sin but I think that in the beginning it probably was a sin because God created man and woman, not man and man and not woman and woman...but later on something happend and homosexuality just happend therefore, it's not a sin.

Wow.... that does it... HOMOSEX IS NOT A SIN!

[Kontroll]

Well in the Bible it says that "homosexuality" is a sin but I think that in the beginning it probably was a sin because God created man and woman, not man and man and not woman and woman...but later on something happend and homosexuality just happend therefore, it's not a sin.

That's the worse logic I've ever heard. You basically contradicted yourself. You said there is a God. Considering God said homosexuality is wrong, then He must have disappeared from existence for homosexuality to be right.

The only reason people are debating about this is because of the huge influence of the liberal media. Homosexuality is right. There's nothing wrong about it. Well, when you try to mix two things that don't mix, they will therefore in the end be separated.

[*Uronacid*]

That's the worse logic I've ever heard. You basically contradicted yourself. You said there is a God. Considering God said homosexuality is wrong, then He must have disappeared from existence for homosexuality to be right.

The only reason people are debating about this is because of the huge influence of the liberal media. Homosexuality is right. There's nothing wrong about it. Well, when you try to mix two things that don't mix, they will therefore in the end be separated.

It's like trying to mix oil and water... C'mon guys, you'll kill all the dolphins... geez :[

I think that if Homosexuality is deemed "not a sin" all the dolphins will die... the seals too. What do you think? I mean, God said that in the "Bible" didn't he?

John 48:12-14 "For Homosexuality is a wretched sin in the eyes of the Father. Thus, He sayeth for all the mammals of the sea with the power in the heavens shall pay for the sins of the unrighteous. The stench shall be like that of the unrighteous, and great blood of the sea shall be on their adopted espoused children's children."

[sweetangel2128]

That's the worse logic I've ever heard. You basically contradicted yourself. You said there is a God.

How am I contradicting myself? Explain! I merely said yes it does say homosexuality in the Bible is wrong but you gotta understand the Bible was written a VERY long time ago and when he did create everything, it probably was a sin. But then after he created humans, somewhere along in time homosexuality happend, not by choice but by an imbalance in the hormones...something went haywire? Do you kinda understand what I'm saying? If not, what I'm saying is that in the beginning yes it was a sin but something later on went haywire and now homosexuality is there, something of not our control and I think God knows that now.

[Kontroll]

You're creating some fairy tale here. Homosexuality came about because people began not believing there was a God. They gave into their earthly pleasures and homosexuality came about. It's not like homosexuality is something new. Its been around for thousands of years. If you look back at the Ancient Greek civilization, you can see that they condoned it. They felt that men were superior to women and often would have sex with each other.

Think of it this way. The Bible is our moral standards. It's our guidelines as Christians. If it wasn't important, do you think that God would have put it in there? I really don't think so. Everything in the Bible applies to our daily lives no matter what time period you're in. So, to say that something in the Bible is not important is saying that it's not correct anymore, which would make God incorrect. Yes, it was written by humans, but it was inspired, which in this sense meant that God spoke His words to certain authors to put into textual scriptures.

But to say that homosexuality is wrong at one certain point and right at another is down right ignorance.

[sweetangel2128]

You're creating some fairy tale here. Homosexuality came about because people began not believing there was a God. They gave into their earthly pleasures and homosexuality came about. It's not like homosexuality is something new. Its been around for thousands of years. If you look back at the Ancient Greek civilization, you can see that they condoned it. They felt that men were superior to women and often would have sex with each other.

But to say that homosexuality is wrong at one certain point and right at another is down right ignorance.

First of all, homosexuality isn't just based on people's choices not to follow God. I know several people who are gay but they never chose that lifestyle, they were born that way, like I said it's an imbalance in hormones. Yes, true a lot of people choose the lifestyle but there are a lot that don't. One of my friends would give anything to be attracted to a female but he isn't.

You can think it's ignorance but I think it's logical thinking. Like I said long ago homosexuality was said to be a sin BY GOD but back then it probably didn't exist when he first created it as being a sin or maybe he did, I don't know that. But all I am saying is maybe later on in the future (after he said it was a sin) it became an imbalance in the hormones but wasn't back then but just choices people made cause they were curous...I believe to God right now it isn't a sin in his eyes because it's no longer a choice but something people are born with..he cannot change what he believes to be a sin in writing but thats what I think and like I said if you want to think my "thought process" is ignorant, go ahead, I really don't care what you think..this is my OPINION.

But to say that homosexuality is wrong at one certain point and right at another is down right ignorance.

I have a Question, are you a Christian? Because you seem to know a lot about the Bible and about what God wants for us. If so, read the 10 commandments of God, one it says to love your neighbor and to love your enemy..meaning don't be rude to others live like jesus did. By calling me or my opinion ignorant you are going against that commandment.

[*mishyerr*]

Random question~

I remember reading somewhere that having sex was a sin itself. It was the "original sin" or whatever.

Is this information correct?

If so, does it mean that everyone, homosexuals and heterosexuals, have committed sin by succumbing to "earthly pleasures"?

[sweetangel2128]

Random question~

I remember reading somewhere that having sex was a sin itself. It was the "original sin" or whatever.

Is this information correct?

If so, does it mean that everyone, homosexuals and heterosexuals, have committed sin by succumbing to "earthly pleasures"?

I've never heard of that, it says that sex before marriage is a sin in the Bible but that's because God believed it should be shared between husband and wife. When he said marry he didn't mean "marriage by state" like the marriage lisence but married by a minister or pastor in front of God but of course by state that isn't legal and not actually being married but in God's eyes it is..that's my friend Jessica told me, she's an apentocostal christian.

For an example, Adam and Eve were aloud to have sex but they were technically married in God's eyes, husband and wife. If no one had sex because sex was a sin then you or I wouldn't be alive today.

[Kontroll]

First of all, homosexuality isn't just based on people's choices not to follow God. I know several people who are gay but they never chose that lifestyle, they were born that way, like I said it's an imbalance in hormones. Yes, true a lot of people choose the lifestyle but there are a lot that don't. One of my friends would give anything to be attracted to a female but he isn't.

You can think it's ignorance but I think it's logical thinking. Like I said long ago homosexuality was said to be a sin BY GOD but back then it probably didn't exist when he first created it as being a sin or maybe he did, I don't know that. But all I am saying is maybe later on in the future (after he said it was a sin) it became an imbalance in the hormones but wasn't back then but just choices people made cause they were curous...I believe to God right now it isn't a sin in his eyes because it's no longer a choice but something people are born with..he cannot change what he believes to be a sin in writing but thats what I think and like I said if you want to think my "thought process" is ignorant, go ahead, I really don't care what you think..this is my OPINION.
I have a Question, are you a Christian? Because you seem to know a lot about the Bible and about what God wants for us. If so, read the 10 commandments of God, one it says to love your neighbor and to love your enemy..meaning don't be rude to others live like jesus did. By calling me or my opinion ignorant you are going against that commandment.

I gotta tell you. After reading the Ten Commandments again, I have to say that there is no commandment relating to you 'Love your neighbors and your enemies.' The closest is 'Do not covet your neighbor's things.'

But, you were saying I was being rude? How so? This is a debate forum. And yes I am a Christian. And that "Commandment" does not interpret to don't be rude to others. It's a literal meaning. Love. Don't hate them. I don't hate you. I can never hate you, no matter what you do. Yeah, I can dislike you, but I don't. I know you're just speaking what you feel is right. That's awesome. I'm really glad that we're able to do this. But, I'm not going to be a little angle when it comes to this. We're talking about a Book I feel that is never wrong, and a God that always has been. So, when people come in here and say different things about it, I make sure that I comment on them and be an apologetic for my faith, the best I can at least. And to bring up that I'm being rude just seems like you're trying to distract me from the actual topic. Please stick to the topic. I'm not trying to be a dick, but it would really keep things straight in here. And I know, or I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, that you have at least some maturity to do that. Thanks, buddy.

Random question~

I remember reading somewhere that having sex was a sin itself. It was the "original sin" or whatever.

Is this information correct?

If so, does it mean that everyone, homosexuals and heterosexuals, have committed sin by succumbing to "earthly pleasures"?

The original sin was that Adam and Eve ate of the fruit of the forbidden tree.

Sex is just a sin like all others. The Bible states that it should be something for marriage, but you're not going to die if you do it before marriage. If you read polls, people who wait for marriage have a better sex life.

Back to Heath. Think of it not as a chemical or hormonal imbalance. To say that you're gay from birth is a stretch. There is no empirical evidence that proves that people are born gay from birth. Think of it as a sexual preference. Because that's what that is. I like females, and am a heterosexual. That's my sexual preference. But I do agree with you when people say that they never chose to be gay.

Here is a good example, I think at least. Some people who are deamed mentally ill because they find pleasure in having sexual experiences with children, with animals, or with family members. Do you think that they chose to be that way? I mean, it is out of the norm for people to be anything but heterosexual if the Bible is in fact correct. I feel that it has to do with your influences. Some people are abused as children by their fathers, or mothers and they have unnatural attractions to either men or women.

If a person is sexually abused as a child by their parents, or is introduced with sexual situations with animals, or whatever, don't you feel that they will certain attractions to those types of sexual preferences?

Do you understand what I'm saying? I might be a little confusing, but I feel that I made my point. Can't wait to hear what you have to say dude.

[sweetangel2128]

I gotta tell you. After reading the Ten Commandments again, I have to say that there is no commandment relating to you 'Love your neighbors and your enemies.' The closest is 'Do not covet your neighbor's things.'

But, you were saying I was being rude? How so? This is a debate forum. And yes I am a Christian. And that "Commandment" does not interpret to don't be rude to others. It's a literal meaning. Love. Don't hate them. I don't hate you. I can never hate you, no matter what you do. Yeah, I can dislike you, but I don't. I know you're just speaking what you feel is right. That's awesome. I'm really glad that we're able to do this. But, I'm not going to be a little angle when it comes to this. We're talking about a Book I feel that is never wrong, and a God that always has been. So, when people come in here and say different things about it, I make sure that I comment on them and be an apologetic for my faith, the best I can at least. And to bring up that I'm being rude just seems like you're trying to distract me from the actual topic. Please stick to the topic. I'm not trying to be a dick, but it would really keep things straight in here. And I know, or I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, that you have at least some maturity to do that. Thanks, buddy.
The original sin was that Adam and Eve ate of the fruit of the forbidden tree.

Sex is just a sin like all others. The Bible states that it should be something for marriage, but you're not going to die if you do it before marriage. If you read polls, people who wait for marriage have a better sex life.

Back to Heath. Think of it not as a chemical or hormonal imbalance. To say that you're gay from birth is a stretch. There is no empirical evidence that proves that people are born gay from birth. Think of it as a sexual preference. Because that's what that is. I like females, and am a heterosexual. That's my sexual preference. But I do agree with you when people say that they never chose to be gay.

Here is a good example, I think at least. Some people who are deamed mentally ill because they find pleasure in having sexual experiences with children, with animals, or with family members. Do you think that they chose to be that way? I mean, it is out of the norm for people to be anything but heterosexual if the Bible is in fact correct. I feel that it has to do with your influences. Some people are abused as children by their fathers, or mothers and they have unnatural attractions to either men or women.

If a person is sexually abused as a child by their parents, or is introduced with sexual situations with animals, or whatever, don't you feel that they will certain attractions to those types of sexual preferences?

Do you understand what I'm saying? I might be a little confusing, but I feel that I made my point. Can't wait to hear what you have to say dude.

First of all, I apologise for the whole 10 commandments thing, I was wrong and I did find this in the Bible - "Leviticus 19:18 - "Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against one of your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD."

I felt you were being rude because you basically said I was being ignorant, and that shows rudeness towards me. I never said that the Bible is false, I merely said that back then when it was written maybe it was a sin and was a choice, but what if later on it became something people were born with? Like after it was written as being a sin? Things can happen. As for your example, you can't even relate the two, your talking about a krazy person who goes around and does krazy crap lol when I'm talking about a normal human being in one relationship with the same sex because they feel love towards that person.

I know what you mean though and I get what your trying to say, I dated someone that raped his sister for 2 and a half years and he grew up in a home full of sex offenders. However, I don't believe that person can blame there environment for there actions because we know right from wrong, it's common sense and we do have our own brains.

Well just because there are no evidence doesn't mean it ain't true. I believe that a lot of people are gay because of hormonal problems or genes as people call them. A lot of them I believe are just curious but like I said before I know someone who is gay who was actually born into it and realized it when he was 7 years old...another I knew back in high school I worked with in the cafeteria was also gay and you could tell by the way he talked and his voice. It was his normal voice and I don't know if you've witnessed this or not, but a lot of gays that are "in fact" gay...do have different voice changes, there more feminine and gay..so yeah I think they were born that way...like I said different genes.

Well you could die from sex, AIDS lol...but umm that's not what your referring to. No, you will not be sent to Hell for having sex before marriage but it is a sin but like I've stated in the past to other people, everyone sins and just because you sin doesn't mean you wont go to Heaven, there is not one person on this planet that doesn't sin...only Jesus is perfect which is why he died on the cross so we "sinful humans" could go to Heaven.

[Kontroll]

First of all, I apologise for the whole 10 commandments thing, I was wrong and I did find this in the Bible - "Leviticus 19:18 - "Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against one of your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD."

I never said that the Bible is false, I merely said that back then when it was written maybe it was a sin and was a choice, but what if later on it became something people were born with? Like after it was written as being a sin?

Its okay. Thank you for the apology. Haha. But how can a book change how the body works? That's essentially what you're saying. If not, please clarify. Thanks. Also, why would it not be a sin anymore? I know most changes that we see are because of our culture. For instance. If some person's cattle fell into a hole it was a sin to try and get it out on the Sabbath day and they'd have to wait the next day. If you look at that in a metaphorical sense then it applies to our days today. Most Christians go to church and also work that day. That's how I see it anyway. I feel that if you devote your time to God, then if you need to work, it's alright. So, things do change. Your argement is only half right. If homosexuality was wrong during that cultural periods, why would it be wrong in ours if the Bible found homosexuality wrong then?

As for your example, you can't even relate the two, your talking about a krazy person who goes around and does krazy crap lol when I'm talking about a normal human being in one relationship with the same sex because they feel love towards that person.

I know what you mean though and I get what your trying to say, I dated someone that raped his sister for 2 and a half years and he grew up in a home full of sex offenders. However, I don't believe that person can blame there environment for there actions because we know right from wrong, it's common sense and we do have our own brains.

How is my example not relatable? Is it impossible to love a person you're sexually abusing? What makes them so unnormal? Because they have a sexual preference for children? Some of the most normal people I've met have issues like that? Like I said, its certain factors that change our thinking and how we view things.

You're right. You can't blame your environment. Unless you're 100 percent within that environment. But like I said before, it does create a factor within your thinking process.

Well just because there are no evidence doesn't mean it ain't true. I believe that a lot of people are gay because of hormonal problems or genes as people call them. A lot of them I believe are just curious but like I said before I know someone who is gay who was actually born into it and realized it when he was 7 years old...another I knew back in high school I worked with in the cafeteria was also gay and you could tell by the way he talked and his voice. It was his normal voice and I don't know if you've witnessed this or not, but a lot of gays that are "in fact" gay...do have different voice changes, there more feminine and gay..so yeah I think they were born that way...like I said different genes.

But it's more evident that it's not true considering there is no evidence. There are theories for that premise, but only theories.

It's like people going around saying evolution is a fact. It's not. It's only a theory. I was talking to a college professor who said that the most ignorant people are the ones that believe evolution is factual.

I believe that some people do become gay without wanting to, but what caused it? There has to be factors which cause things. True?

[sweetangel2128]

[quote name='JakeKKing' date='Feb 19 2007, 2:38 PM' post='2462570']
Its okay. Thank you for the apology. Haha. But how can a book change how the body works? That's essentially what you're saying. If not, please clarify. Thanks. Also, why would it not be a sin anymore? I know most changes that we see are because of our culture. For instance. If some person's cattle fell into a hole it was a sin to try and get it out on the Sabbath day and they'd have to wait the next day. If you look at that in a metaphorical sense then it applies to our days today. Most Christians go to church and also work that day. That's how I see it anyway. I feel that if you devote your time to God, then if you need to work, it's alright. So, things do change. Your argement is only half right. If homosexuality was wrong during that cultural periods, why would it be wrong in ours if the Bible found homosexuality wrong then?
How is my example not relatable? Is it impossible to love a person you're sexually abusing? What makes them so unnormal? Because they have a sexual preference for children? Some of the most normal people I've met have issues like that? Like I said, its certain factors that change our thinking and how we view things. [/quote]

I never said that a book changes how the body works. I'm saying that it was written long ago and sometime after it was written things could of changed. Things change everyday that are NOT in the Bible.

You're right. You can't blame your environment. Unless you're 100 percent within that environment. But like I said before, it does create a factor within your thinking process.
But it's more evident that it's not true considering there is no evidence. There are theories for that premise, but only theories.[/quote]

There might be no evidence but like I said it doesn't mean it isn't true just because there is no evidence, people are still trying to figure things out and some are trying to prove that it is real and does exist not because they chose it though. It's kinda like the Bible, we believe it's true but we really don't have evidence that it is..yeah we have the scrolls but what makes you think that someone honest really wrote them? That person is not here today to explain it to you. To me finding scrolls millions of years ago doesn't necessarily point out as evidence. Don't get me wrong, I believe most of it I'm just trying to make a point. Religion is based on Faith not evidence.

It's like people going around saying evolution is a fact. It's not. It's only a theory. I was talking to a college professor who said that the most ignorant people are the ones that believe evolution is factual. [/quote]

Evolution is not fact but a theory, Creation is not fact either, there is no evidence that is clearly 100% been backed up....we are just trusting something we've found and believing it to be true, just because it's in writing doesn't mean it's fact. I do not think you professor has any right to call another person ignorant for believing in what they want to believe in.

I believe that some people do become gay without wanting to, but what caused it? There has to be factors which cause things. True?
[/quote]

Wait a sec, you just said that you believe they weren't born that way...your confusing me now cause now your saying you believe some people become gay without meaning to. Like I said it's an imbalance in your hormones, it's the genes, sometimes people don't find out that they are gay until later in life.

[Kontroll]

There might be no evidence but like I said it doesn't mean it isn't true just because there is no evidence, people are still trying to figure things out and some are trying to prove that it is real and does exist not because they chose it though. It's kinda like the Bible, we believe it's true but we really don't have evidence that it is..yeah we have the scrolls but what makes you think that someone honest really wrote them? That person is not here today to explain it to you. To me finding scrolls millions of years ago doesn't necessarily point out as evidence. Don't get me wrong, I believe most of it I'm just trying to make a point. Religion is based on Faith not evidence.

First of all, there were many authors. To make the Bible more credible, the authors didn't even live in the same time periods.

There have been many accurate historical and scientific statements in the Bible. If you would like me to state them I will.
Well, there is evidence. It's all around us. People just interpret it differently. The Bible talks about things that we didn't even know until recently. There were actually certain people in history that had significant scientific discoveries based on what they Bible said. How can you say there is no evidence based around religion?

Evolution is not fact but a theory, Creation is not fact either, there is no evidence that is clearly 100% been backed up....we are just trusting something we've found and believing it to be true, just because it's in writing doesn't mean it's fact. I do not think you professor has any right to call another person ignorant for believing in what they want to believe in.

He wasn't saying they were wrong for what they believed in. He was simply saying they were ignorant for believing something so much blindly that they thought it was factual. Also, 'ignorant' is only a word that means believing or saying something that they don't actually know. So, it's not really a bad thing. It's an observation.

Wait a sec, you just said that you believe they weren't born that way...your confusing me now cause now your saying you believe some people become gay without meaning to. Like I said it's an imbalance in your hormones, it's the genes, sometimes people don't find out that they are gay until later in life.

Answer me this. How is some one born gay? If he had a gene in his body and was raised by two heterosexual parents with no influence of homosexuality, would he become gay? We have to actually see if its a gene or an influence. And that is not something that is easy to observe. You'd have to study them until they believe they are homosexual. That could take years. I'm not saying it can't be done, but it hasn't yet.

I'm saying that people become gay after outward influences changes their thought process. I've met a guy that didn't want to be gay, but he was. Why was he gay? I don't know. He told me that he grew up in an abusive family. To say that is the only reason he was gay is a bit extreme, but its a factor which is my stance. Outside influences affect how we think. When I said that 'Well, was he in that environment for 100 percent of his life?' No, he wasn't. So, what else could have affected him? Being born gay? If you were born gay, wouldn't you ultimately be stuck with that gene, and therefore be gay your entire life? You tell me.

[sweetangel2128]

First of all, there were many authors. To make the Bible more credible, the authors didn't even live in the same time periods.

There have been many accurate historical and scientific statements in the Bible. If you would like me to state them I will.
Well, there is evidence. It's all around us. People just interpret it differently. The Bible talks about things that we didn't even know until recently. There were actually certain people in history that had significant scientific discoveries based on what they Bible said. How can you say there is no evidence based around religion?
He wasn't saying they were wrong for what they believed in. He was simply saying they were ignorant for believing something so much blindly that they thought it was factual. Also, 'ignorant' is only a word that means believing or saying something that they don't actually know. So, it's not really a bad thing. It's an observation.
Answer me this. How is some one born gay? If he had a gene in his body and was raised by two heterosexual parents with no influence of homosexuality, would he become gay? We have to actually see if its a gene or an influence. And that is not something that is easy to observe. You'd have to study them until they believe they are homosexual. That could take years. I'm not saying it can't be done, but it hasn't yet.

I'm saying that people become gay after outward influences changes their thought process. I've met a guy that didn't want to be gay, but he was. Why was he gay? I don't know. He told me that he grew up in an abusive family. To say that is the only reason he was gay is a bit extreme, but its a factor which is my stance. Outside influences affect how we think. When I said that 'Well, was he in that environment for 100 percent of his life?' No, he wasn't. So, what else could have affected him? Being born gay? If you were born gay, wouldn't you ultimately be stuck with that gene, and therefore be gay your entire life? You tell me.

First of all, you said that there were many different authors who lived in different time periods that wrote the Bible. How can more than one person write about the same exact thing if they live in different time periods? If that is the case, the Bible would in fact be false because one person who witness's something can be true but if the other person witnessed the same thing but they were in a different time period, wouldn't they have to be in the "same" time period to witness it? That just makes no sense at all so please explain that to me? Now, I was told that the Bible WAS in fact written by different people that witnessed different things..but they didn't witness the same things in different time periods unless "time travel" existed back then...you really are not making any sense in that area.

What statements are accurate and post them and tell me what makes them accurate by posting something that backs up those points.

I say there is no evidence because we do not know 100% sure that the Bible is fact based on just writings, those writings could of been made up by people back then for all we know. Just because something is in writing doesn't state that it is a "fact".

Yes, I know what ignorant is but still, if another person calls another person ignorant, it's still rude unless your saying the person's knowledge is ignorant, not the person unless that's what your saying?

You are making sense on the gay part. True about the genes, who knows, maybe homosexuality is a sin maybe it's not but I am not going to worry about it, since I am not gay lol...so yeah...but you do have a good point on that end. I am sorry though I can't give you an answer, I am not a scientist or a medical doctor.

[bat19]

Jake, I dont know about you sometimes. I'll be short and sweet.

Homosexuality is a choice. No, Homosexuality is something you are born with. My question to you is, Why can't it be both? Sure, there are a lot of people who choose to be gay. But what about the people who have always been gay. Never have been attracted to women(or men). Like Chris Rock says, "He didn't become Gay, he was gay then. You were playin' ball, he was jumpin rope." And what exactly is deemed a sin nowadays anyway? To Jake, its anything that the bible says is a sin. Well, doesn't it say somewhere that incest is a sin as well? Yet how many occurences of incest are there in your holy bible? Could you please explain to me how Adam and Eve were supposed to procreate the entire human species? Obviously some of those boys slept wih they sistah's. Completely off subject but why did god mark Cain as a murderer for all others to see if the only people on the planet were him and his parents?
But getting back, why again is homosexuality considered evil but having sex with your children is not? Why in ancient Rome were the sexual pleasures of men and women satisfied by both? The whole homosexuality is evil idea was actually spearheaded by the Catholic church, the same Catholic church that would travel throughout the world spreading the good lord's word or destroying those with deaf ears and free minds. The catholic church is also responsible for the belief that Jesus is actually the savior, it was put to a f**kin vote people. This is information available in the Dan Brown book, but I did know about this before hand.
Anywho, thats about it. The bottom line is that your sexuality is your own, no one has the right to choose for you. If you wanna be gay, be gay. If you're too afraid to come out, wait until you feel comfortable. If you're straight, be straight. Don't hate on homosexuals because you must consider what they are going through.
Imagine a world where homosexual relations are the norm and the only reason for heterosexual sex is for the continuation of the species. Imagine you and a handful are the only straight people. You'd be outcasts. Most of you would hide as Homosexuals for the rest of your lives, always knowing that deep down, your just a big Hetero.
I joke around, but I seriously think it's bullshit whenever people try to force their beliefs on others. Im an Atheist, yet I don't go to people and talk down on God(unless it's called for in a debate). I would never go up to a gay person and criticize their livelihood. I think gay people should be able to adopt. When you think of the alternative, of the thousands of kids in orphanages and foster care, I would think any loving home would be better regardless of sexual orientation. I am so very sick of these high upper class white conservative males saying how God says Homosexuality is a sin, meanwhile they're cheating on their wives and videotaping little children taking off their clothes. What does God have to say about that? Our social situations should not be based on the manuscript of an ancient religion that couldn't possibly know the circumstances of modern times. Just as women fought for equality and won, Blacks fought and won, Homosexuals are fighting, and I hope someday they too will win.

[sweetangel2128]

Jake, I dont know about you sometimes. I'll be short and sweet.

Homosexuality is a choice. No, Homosexuality is something you are born with. My question to you is, Why can't it be both? Sure, there are a lot of people who choose to be gay. But what about the people who have always been gay. Never have been attracted to women(or men). Like Chris Rock says, "He didn't become Gay, he was gay then. You were playin' ball, he was jumpin rope." And what exactly is deemed a sin nowadays anyway? To Jake, its anything that the bible says is a sin. Well, doesn't it say somewhere that incest is a sin as well? Yet how many occurences of incest are there in your holy bible? Could you please explain to me how Adam and Eve were supposed to procreate the entire human species? Obviously some of those boys slept wih they sistah's. Completely off subject but why did god mark Cain as a murderer for all others to see if the only people on the planet were him and his parents?
But getting back, why again is homosexuality considered evil but having sex with your children is not? Why in ancient Rome were the sexual pleasures of men and women satisfied by both? The whole homosexuality is evil idea was actually spearheaded by the Catholic church, the same Catholic church that would travel throughout the world spreading the good lord's word or destroying those with deaf ears and free minds. The catholic church is also responsible for the belief that Jesus is actually the savior, it was put to a f**kin vote people. This is information available in the Dan Brown book, but I did know about this before hand.
Anywho, thats about it. The bottom line is that your sexuality is your own, no one has the right to choose for you. If you wanna be gay, be gay. If you're too afraid to come out, wait until you feel comfortable. If you're straight, be straight. Don't hate on homosexuals because you must consider what they are going through.
Imagine a world where homosexual relations are the norm and the only reason for heterosexual sex is for the continuation of the species. Imagine you and a handful are the only straight people. You'd be outcasts. Most of you would hide as Homosexuals for the rest of your lives, always knowing that deep down, your just a big Hetero.
I joke around, but I seriously think it's bullshit whenever people try to force their beliefs on others. Im an Atheist, yet I don't go to people and talk down on God(unless it's called for in a debate). I would never go up to a gay person and criticize their livelihood. I think gay people should be able to adopt. When you think of the alternative, of the thousands of kids in orphanages and foster care, I would think any loving home would be better regardless of sexual orientation. I am so very sick of these high upper class white conservative males saying how God says Homosexuality is a sin, meanwhile they're cheating on their wives and videotaping little children taking off their clothes. What does God have to say about that? Our social situations should not be based on the manuscript of an ancient religion that couldn't possibly know the circumstances of modern times. Just as women fought for equality and won, Blacks fought and won, Homosexuals are fighting, and I hope someday they too will win.

Great, no terrific input. I am a Christian but I'm one that doesn't push religion on people. I believe that homosexuality was a sin back when the Bible was written but I believe times have changed but that's just my beliefs. But you do have a very very good point.

[Kontroll]

Well, doesn't it say somewhere that incest is a sin as well? Yet how many occurences of incest are there in your holy bible? Could you please explain to me how Adam and Eve were supposed to procreate the entire human species? Obviously some of those boys slept wih they sistah's. Completely off subject but why did god mark Cain as a murderer for all others to see if the only people on the planet were him and his parents?

You're right. Adam and Eve did have children who procreated with each other. There are certain things that change. For instance, incest. The only reason that it was allowed in the early stages of creation is because of the population. We all know what could very well happen if two closely related family members procreate. They will have a mentally retarded child, most likely. That obviously didn't happen if it was never recorded and people were populating with no problems.

You can marry a family member today. All you need to do is get a genetics test to make sure that your genes are compatible.

But getting back, why again is homosexuality considered evil but having sex with your children is not? Why in ancient Rome were the sexual pleasures of men and women satisfied by both? The whole homosexuality is evil idea was actually spearheaded by the Catholic church, the same Catholic church that would travel throughout the world spreading the good lord's word or destroying those with deaf ears and free minds. The catholic church is also responsible for the belief that Jesus is actually the savior, it was put to a f**kin vote people. This is information available in the Dan Brown book, but I did know about this before hand.

Having sex with your children is wrong on two accounts. Fornication and incest. Incest, fornication and beastiality are all sins according to the Bible.

Oh, come on Jeremy. You're believing a man that has shown no evidence over a book that has impacted the world like no other. The Bible is the number one selling book of all time.

Anywho, thats about it. The bottom line is that your sexuality is your own, no one has the right to choose for you. If you wanna be gay, be gay. If you're too afraid to come out, wait until you feel comfortable. If you're straight, be straight. Don't hate on homosexuals because you must consider what they are going through.
Imagine a world where homosexual relations are the norm and the only reason for heterosexual sex is for the continuation of the species. Imagine you and a handful are the only straight people. You'd be outcasts. Most of you would hide as Homosexuals for the rest of your lives, always knowing that deep down, your just a big Hetero.
I joke around, but I seriously think it's bullshit whenever people try to force their beliefs on others. Im an Atheist, yet I don't go to people and talk down on God(unless it's called for in a debate). I would never go up to a gay person and criticize their livelihood. I think gay people should be able to adopt. When you think of the alternative, of the thousands of kids in orphanages and foster care, I would think any loving home would be better regardless of sexual orientation. I am so very sick of these high upper class white conservative males saying how God says Homosexuality is a sin, meanwhile they're cheating on their wives and videotaping little children taking off their clothes. What does God have to say about that? Our social situations should not be based on the manuscript of an ancient religion that couldn't possibly know the circumstances of modern times. Just as women fought for equality and won, Blacks fought and won, Homosexuals are fighting, and I hope someday they too will win.

Jeremy. Enough with the ignorance. If you want to say something at least make sure you're saying it right.

I agree with you if you want to be gay. It's your choice, no one can stop you. We can tell you what we believe, but to force or push it on you is wrong. There are Christians out there like that, and it is really a bad image for Christianity.

Listen, you can't base a religion around what a few people do. If some 'High upper class white conservative' is cheating on his wife, then that's his problem. Just because he's labeled as a Christian, first of all doesn't mean he is one, and second doesn't mean the whole religion should go down with him. You have to realize that we're all humans. We all have faults and make mistakes. No matter what religion you're apart of you're always human and susceptible to mistakes.