for Christians and atheists Options

[danyo]

Sure, I can almost hear you say that GOD SACRIFICED HIS ONLY SON for us to live in Paradise and that's the most self-less act ever!!! Not really. There are people who would sacrifice their own lives to save those that they love as well.

have you seen the movie "The Passion of the Christ"? if you did, the way He died is horrible and i heard that movie had to be edited to be less violent and gory.
that is true, alot of people would sacrifice their own lives to save others, i would too, even for you, but im not sure if id be able to sacrifice my life in the way Jesus Christ did for me and everyone else.. if i do, i would probably hesitate to for a long time before i jump in.

There are parents who love their children regardless of who they are and what they do in love. Those parents are selfless and self-sacrificing. God isn't anywhere near selfless if He expects something in return.

God DOES loves everyone the same, every single one of HIS child.
Let's say you have mmm.. 5 sons.. and you just bought a new house to move into in a new neighborhood with your sons and this place is perfect.. everyone is happy.. its very peaceful.. nobody is sick so no sick can go in and nor is there any medicine there because there is no need. But two of your sons have... SARS. You have a cure for each of them and one took one and was cured but the other refuses to take it and says "you are not my mother". what would you do? unless he takes the cure, he won't be able to go with you guys to the new house in the new neighborhood because the other 4 child will get sars and die along with all the other neighbors. this is kind of life the situation God is in. Jesus is the medicine. it's you're decision to either take it or not. just an example i came up with but i'm not sure if that is a good enough example but yea.. hope that part kind of made sense to you fae. (:

[Spirited Away]

have you seen the movie "The Passion of the Christ"? if you did, the way He died is horrible and i heard that movie had to be edited to be less violent and gory.
that is true, alot of people would sacrifice their own lives to save others, i would too, even for you, but im not sure if id be able to sacrifice my life in the way Jesus Christ did for me and everyone else.. if i do, i would probably hesitate to for a long time before i jump in.

Yes I did saw it, but it was kind of boring to me... no offense to those who love the movie of course. The link I sent you about Thomas Paine's view on Christianity would reveal how I feel about Jesus:

He may believe that Jesus was crucified, because many others were crucified, but who is to prove he was crucified for the sins of the world? This article has no evidence, not even in the New Testament; and if it had, where is the proof that the New Testament, in relating things neither probable nor provable, is to be believed as true?

If that event actually happened, why is it that we must be categorized the same as the ones who aided in the killing of Jesus? We are NOT of the same nature! While they were blood thirsty, we are not as such and often times forgive those who have wronged us. Why are we the ones blamed for someone else's crimes?

God DOES loves everyone the same, every single one of HIS child.

Erm, confused... are we not all supposed to be His creation according to Christianity?

Let's say you have mmm.. 5 sons.. and you just bought a new house to move into in a new neighborhood with your sons and this place is perfect.. everyone is happy.. its very peaceful..  nobody is sick so no sick can go in and nor is there any medicine there because there is no need. But two of your sons have... SARS. You have a cure for each of them and one took one and was cured but the other refuses to take it and says "you are not my mother". what would you do? unless he takes the cure, he won't be able to go with you guys to the new house in the new neighborhood because the other 4 child will get sars and die along with all the other neighbors. this is kind of life the situation God is in. Jesus is the medicine. it's you're decision to either take it or not. just an example i came up with but i'm not sure if that is a good enough example but yea.. hope that part kind of made sense to you fae. (:

That was a very fine example! However, I would love my son enough to force him to recognize me as his mother. Even if the child isn't mine, and the only way to save his life would be for him to accept me, I would some how PROVE that I am or make him believe me because his life is precious. You know, children will believe things that holds valid proof unless they lack the ability to think logically.

Anyway, I liked the example more so than your donuts story.

[Devastation]

great topic.

[Spirited Away]

great topic.

And... do you have anything else to add? Perhaps your own views on the topic?

[Ze world is a Ma...]

I liked that

are you kidding? i loved that but both sides are right. everything is flawed even God Himself he as the professor said created this world he created satan did he not
why did he ever create such thing like the snake to convince bad to eve why did he created it so that the snake was there to lure her. why didnt her let us live in th egarden eh? but then science is also flawed.

[*[2]Nekked*]

that was great even for an atheist.

sorry i didnt feel like all 6 pages though.

concerning the discussion about mind vs. brain, i dunno if this was already resolved, but here are my thoughts:

The human consciousness that originates in the brain and is manifested especially in thought, perception, emotion, will, memory, and imagination.

the mind is manifested in thought, perception, emotion... etc. it originates from your mind. you cant see thought. you cant see perception. you cant see emotion. your logic that if the brain did not exist then the mind wouldnt, and therefore the mind is observable is flawed. because if our bodies did not exist than neither would our thoughts. because one cannot exist without the other, does not mean that both are observable.


now concerning everything else:
think backwards for a moment. what if you worshipped God all your life, but he did NOT exist?

[sikdragon]

its amazing i have come to those same conclusions in science class. The rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science, well that is a new line thanx that was a really good post.

[broken inside]

That Christain probably failed physics. There is porrof of evolution, there is no proof of Adam and Eve.

[timeflies51]

With the "seeing evolution" thing, there was a recent news article that reported the findings of Darwin's finches on the Galapagos Islands. They're still evolving.

http://www.livescience.com/animalworld/060...rwin_finch.html


Brought up interesting points. The atheist's points were nothing I haven't heard before, though (kind of disappointing).


I agree that there is no such thing as cold and no such thing as darkness for they cannot be measured. However, who says you can measure good and evil? Because there is no common consensus on what is good and what is evil, how could you ever measure it?


And the "professor's mind" thing was ridiculous. At least you're able to do all of those things to his mind. But do all of those things to God? No one's done so yet.

[hirador]

I had never read that before, I liked it. It presents both sides which is something that you don't see much since they are quiet the opposite of eachother.

[Joss-eh-lime]

so in the end part hes saying
we can see a brain. but we cant see a mind. and based on what the professors saying this means he has no mind.

i enjoyed reading it. im really tired of teachers putting down their students opinions and belifes becuase they think they are smarter, wiser and always correct.

[ktsou11]

That's interesting. I like it!

[NoSex]

I've read it several times, I've even seen it preformed as a play. I've also had people tell me that the student questioning the professor was Einstein, which, of course, is not substantiated by anything. As far as I can tell, this is just a really lame and ineffectual piece of christian propoganda. Entirely fiction. The largest problem I have with this story is that the atheist position is reduced to what the christian writer sees of it, which is painfully shortsighted. As an effect, the atheist position is just a mere straw man of an actual argument from evil. The christian uses a misunderstanding of science and special pleading to appear to have made a meaningful point. When, in actuallity, there is really nothing of use in this story. Always been sickened by it. Lame.

[Kontroll]

This is dumb.

[oXMuhNirvanaXo]

Mind is more like thought.

I loved this. I must print this out.

[AngelinaTaylor]

Nate's right. This is lame. I could create the same thing, but with the roles switched. It's easy to make someone look like an idiot.

[*Uronacid*]

I've read it several times, I've even seen it preformed as a play. I've also had people tell me that the student questioning the professor was Einstein, which, of course, is not substantiated by anything. As far as I can tell, this is just a really lame and ineffectual piece of christian propoganda. Entirely fiction. The largest problem I have with this story is that the atheist position is reduced to what the christian writer sees of it, which is painfully shortsighted. As an effect, the atheist position is just a mere straw man of an actual argument from evil. The christian uses a misunderstanding of science and special pleading to appear to have made a meaningful point. When, in actuallity, there is really nothing of use in this story. Always been sickened by it. Lame.

It is lame... it's played out, but... as for the God creating satan and sin thing

I don't think that humans would even be able to comprehend love if they were perfect. God created humans without sin, but gave us the ability to do it. Love cannot exist if you do not have a choice. If you loved everyone, and everything was perfect could love really exist? Love is a sacrifice. Love is doing whats best for others. Love is putting others needs above your own. If everythign was perfect, you wouldn't have a choice. You love by making a choice to love. If sin or hell didn't exist, then love would not exist either. God created sin so He could demonstrate love to us, and also give us the ability to demonstrate love Him/other. I believe that this is one of the greatest gifts.

[NoSex]

Love cannot exist if you do not have a choice. If you loved everyone, and everything was perfect could love really exist? Love is a sacrifice. Love is doing whats best for others. Love is putting others needs above your own. If everythign was perfect, you wouldn't have a choice. You love by making a choice to love.

Hmmm. Well, then I would posit that, within the Christian theology, love can not exist.
[See, http://www.createblog.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=125890]

[AngelinaTaylor]

Love cannot exist if you do not have a choice. If you loved everyone, and everything was perfect could love really exist? Love is a sacrifice. Love is doing whats best for others. Love is putting others needs above your own. If everythign was perfect, you wouldn't have a choice. You love by making a choice to love.

Bullshit. You don't "choose" who to love. Your heart does, or at least that's the most poetic way I can put it. It's not a damn choice. At least the feeling isn't. You don't choose who you'll fall for. That's so superficial.

[*My Cinderella.*]

Wow. What a good read.

[twinkles6801]

I really enjoyed reading that. Thanks, but i have no argument on this.

[MrStrife]

Liked the story how the two just go at it with each other. Still atheist and believe in myself. Saw on a shirt one time "Better to be an open sinner than a false saint"

[femmefatale4160]

I thought that was brilliant. The second Christian is amazing...that takes some serious courage. I heard another story similar to that, but much shorter.

A Kindergarten teacher told her students one day that there was no God. To prove her point, she had one of her students look out the window. She asked if he could see the sky, the trees, the playground...all of which he could see, but he could not see God. "That's because he's not real," said the teacher.

A little five year-old girl stood up and asked the boy if he could see the teacher's brain. "No," he said.

"Then from what we learned today, she may not even have one!" said the little girl.

Anyway, my point is that we should not need to see something to believe that it is there. I'm a firm believer in Jesus, and I think it's ridiculous that so many people try to dispute my opinion. Why is believing in Christ more outrageous than believing in Santa Claus or the Easter bunny?

I've had encounters with the Holy Spirit that leave no doubt in my mind that God is real. We can't see air, but we know it exists. Why couldn't we have more faith in God. Not everything in life can be explained, and not every question has an answer. People just have to accept that.

Besides which, a great man once said, "I'd rather pray all my life and find that there is no God, than die and find that there is."

[NoSex]

I thought that was brilliant. The second Christian is amazing...that takes some serious courage.

Brilliant? Are you serious?
It's such a terrible thought experiment. Not to mention, an awful misrepresentation and straw man of an actual atheist position. Ridiculous.

Anyway, my point is that we should not need to see something to believe that it is there. I'm a firm believer in Jesus, and I think it's ridiculous that so many people try to dispute my opinion. Why is believing in Christ more outrageous than believing in Santa Claus or the Easter bunny?

Are you f**king serious?

1. "See it to believe it," isn't exactly literal. It's more figurative.
2. How is it ridiculous that people try to dispute a position you hold?
3. How is it not ridiculous that you hold a position without evidence and despite contrary evidence?
4. People don't seriously believe that Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny exist, if they did, that would be outrageous.
5. Believing in Christ actually molds human beings in a certain way. It's actually significant to the human experience. Believing in Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny: Not so much.
6. Are you serious?!

Besides which, a great man once said, "I'd rather pray all my life and find that there is no God, than die and find that there is."

Great man my ass.

Pascal's Wager is a logical fallacy. On top of that, it's a very contemptible position. There is nothing admirable about beliving in something simply for fear of death, dummy.

[PandaKnight14]

By Pascal's wager, you would have to find the religion with the worst hell, too.

Besides, true belief could not come from fear of a possibility you odn't believe is likely.