macs suck., pcs rule. Options

[sadolakced acid]

well, sorry if i find blatant corporatism distasteful.

i dunno, when a companies ads are all about putting down the competition, you kinda question what they have to offer.

[lanbexx]

my biggest beef with macs is apple and its fans. mipadi, actually a LOT of mac users are basically pricks with money. admittedly, youre not really in that category because you hold a lot of knowledge. but most mac users think that since theyre using a mac, theyre suddenly in an elitest group that is better than "normal" PC users. and apple doesnt help at all. looking at some of their most recent commercials and its pretty blatant. unlike most PC commercials that stress good deals or better performance than comptetitors, Mac commercials just feed into the eliteist idea that if ur a Mac user, ur better than everyone else. The whole brown box commercial vs the Mac commercial, anyone? and that whole "i moved to mac cause of the dreaded blue screen" commercials? Mac users tend to eat up everything Apple says and just repeat it. kinda like how one jock says something retarded, every other jock will laugh. and apple also shows its arrogance even in its marketing. Apple tried to liscense the i____ name (ipod, itrip) because they thought it was an infringement on their profits, even tho they didnt make any effort until the market exploded with those addons. another one, why not let PC users use OSX legally on their computers, instead of holding it really really close to their chest and yelling at hackers who break through their code and discover flaws, yet proclaim that using windows on macs is a totally justified and should be advocated for? because they dont like playing fair

so ill be quite a bit happier with macs and their users (even if not as much as PCs) when apple stops lying and acting like like theyre better than everyone else.

[*mipadi*]

my biggest beef with macs is apple and its fans. mipadi, actually a LOT of mac users are basically pricks with money.

This goes back to what I was saying before. Certainly there are some Mac users who are, well, assholes about being a Mac user. Even I, as a Mac user, get pretty irritated when I see other Mac users being elitist and spouting off misinformation and Apple corporate propaganda.

But a lot of PC users act as though Mac users are the only ones who do it--they act as though PC users are victims of this "abuse". This is most certainly not the case. Back when I was a wee Mac user, I didn't care about the Mac-vs.-PC debate at all--yet anytime I mentioned my Mac, or used one at school, hardcore PC users would almost always make some kind of snarky remark. I didn't want to debate the issue, but someone always had to make a joke. Take a look around this forum: Anytime there's a topic about iPods or Macs, even ones that don't bring any sort of debate into the thread, but are merely talking about the product amongst other users, an anti-Mac member almost always coasts in to say that iPods suck, or Macs suck, or Mac OS X sucks. To be fair, you don't see that many Mac users going into the Counter-Strike thread, or other PC threads, and saying that PCs suck for no reason. And notice that this thread in particular wasn't started by a Mac user under the title "PCs suck!".

In my opinion, going out of one's way to put down Apple products is just as elitist as a Mac user going out of his way to prop up Apple products. The point, though, is that you can't really criticize Mac users for being elitist, while letting PC users off the hook.

Is that to say all PC users are assholes? No, just as not all Mac users are elitist. I know a lot of Mac users who aren't just "pricks with money", and it's unfair to characterize them as that. In fact, most I know aren't (and, being a Mac user, I am involved in numerous groups and projects that put me in regular contact with other users). You have a few assholes on both sides of the fence--but is it fair to only criticize Mac users, or stereotype all Mac users based on a few?

Sure, Apple might have a bit of a "cool" factor now, but you have to remember that there are a lot of Mac users--such as myself--that have been using Macs since well before they were cool. I've been using Macs since 1994, and Apple IIs before that; and there are many users who have been onboard since 1984. And you know what? Most of the Mac users who have been around since then have long grown above the "Macs rule! Everyone else sucks!" rally.

John Gruber, a pretty unbiased Mac user/blogger, offers a good article on why people get so emotional about this debate, and a lot of it comes down to people not truly understanding the reasons why users make different choices. A lot of Windows users think that Mac users are "rich, elitist pricks" who think they're better because they use a Mac; a lot of Mac users attribute a choice to use Windows as a lack of aesthetic abilities. Both assumptions offend the other crowd--and they're not usually correct. People have good reasons to use Macs, just as people have good reasons to use Windows.

admittedly, youre not really in that category because you hold a lot of knowledge. but most mac users think that since theyre using a mac, theyre suddenly in an elitest group that is better than "normal" PC users.

I might be reading too much into your point, but I think you raise another issue. Again, certainly some Mac users think they're better than PC users, but often times that is not the case. But there often times is a tendency with some PC users, especially those really into PC gaming, to believe that because a Mac is simple to use, it's a "toy", and most Mac users know nothing about computers. This is not the case at all. Sure, some Mac users know nothing about computers--but a lot of PC users know nothing about computers, either. Some of the most talented software engineers I know work on Macs. Granted, I'm a bit biased, since a large amount of my own development efforts are on the Mac, with other Mac developers, but the point is not to say that the Windows side has no talented developers (this is, of course, untrue), but that the Mac has talented, knowledgeable users, too. In fact, most Mac users do know something about computers. Let's be honest: If you know nothing about computers, you're going go to Wal-Mart, CompUSA, Circuit City, Staples, or Dell, and say, "I want a computer," and you're almost definitely going to get a PC. You have to know where to look if you want a Mac. Again, that's not to say that all PC users are clueless; it's just to emphasize that Mac users, as a whole are not an ignorant lot of users.

and apple doesnt help at all. looking at some of their most recent commercials and its pretty blatant. unlike most PC commercials that stress good deals or better performance than comptetitors, Mac commercials just feed into the eliteist idea that if ur a Mac user, ur better than everyone else. The whole brown box commercial vs the Mac commercial, anyone?

Granted, a lot of Apple promotional material is over the top, but does that mean you should hate Apple, or the Mac? Furthermore, welcome to corporate America. Whether you like or hate rampant corporatism, it's something you probably will have to get used to. You even said yourself that "most PC commercials stress good deals or better performance than competitors." Well, Dell is a competitor. There's no reason to be surprised that Apple would promote its own products above that of Dell.

Of course, I understand what you're saying about Apple's ridiculous commercials, but maybe this is their come-uppance for years of ridicule from PC manufacturers.

Mac users tend to eat up everything Apple says and just repeat it. kinda like how one jock says something retarded, every other jock will laugh.

Again, emphasis that some Mac users spout Apple corporate propaganda--just like some PC users spout PC propaganda (does "You can't find software for the Mac" and "Macs can't be upgraded" sound familiar?). This isn't an issue of Mac users; it's an issue of some users in general.

and apple also shows its arrogance even in its marketing. Apple tried to liscense the i____ name (ipod, itrip) because they thought it was an infringement on their profits, even tho they didnt make any effort until the market exploded with those addons.

Welcome to US patent law. Most companies do the same thing. Microsoft even sued some kid because he had a domain name called mikerowesoft.com. Is this right or wrong? Well, under US patent law, companies have to make an attempt to protect profits and ideas. Does it suck? Well, anyone who talks to me long enough will find out I'm no fan of US patent/copyright law at all, and I think it needs modernized and reworked. So I cringe when I see rampant patent filing and suing. But again, this is not unique to Apple, and it's kind of ridiculous to only criticize Apple for it.

another one, why not let PC users use OSX legally on their computers, instead of holding it really really close to their chest and yelling at hackers who break through their code and discover flaws, yet proclaim that using windows on macs is a totally justified and should be advocated for? because they dont like playing fair

Is it not playing fair? Apple is a hardware company. They make money off of their hardware. Hardware sales fund OS research. Part of the strength of OS X is its ties to the hardware on which it runs. I discussed this earlier, but it's a key factor in making OS X run as smoothly as it does.

Macs are sold as a unit, hardware and software. In the 1980s, Microsoft chose not to do this. They went with a different route: Licensing DOS, then Windows, to anyone who wanted to run it. It's not as though Microsoft doesn't make an money when a user chooses to run Windows on a Mac--they still sell a copy of Windows, and still gain a Windows user, so it's not exactly a cheap shot. (You'll note that neither Microsoft nor Dell are exactly hurting from the decision to allow Macs to run Windows, either.) Furthermore, Apple doesn't sell Macs with Windows pre-installed, so they're not exactly advocating it. They're just offering an option.

That said, would I like to see OS X on non-Apple machines? Sure, it'd be cool. But it would also break one of the biggest strenghts of the Mac, and I doubt the experience would be as good.

[sadolakced acid]

really, is apple capable of making a comercial that simply points out the good qualities of a mac? dell seems to do it fine. i don't see them constantly comparing thier products with apple's.

the magsafe connector. pretty nice idea. it's been used for years on portable stoves, etc. where the danger from pulling the product off a table is very serious.

but how come, when apple uses it, it's a brillant new invention? i mean, sure, it's useful, but it sure isn't as original as apple makes it out to be.

this sort of apple arrogance- sure, it's just a company trying to make money. but that doesn't mean i have to accept it and buy thier products- expecially when other companies lack that arrogance.

[*mipadi*]

Are we discussing Apple's corporate ethics, or the Macintosh platform here?

I'm not going to justify Apple's ethics. Admittedly, as much as I love the Macintosh, I'm not always a terribly big fan of Apple. Do I think they make excellent products, from a technical perspective? Yes, I do. Do I think they always go about marketing and distributing their products in a completely honest way? No, I don't. A lot of things about Apple unsettle me. I don't agree with their refusal to license FairPlay. I don't agree with much of their negative marketing. So I'll certainly agree that Apple isn't always a completely honest corporation, and does have some arrogance about it.

Of course, so does the competition, Microsoft in particular. Microsoft funds and distributes misinformation about Linux. Microsoft prevents computer companies from using anything but Windows in many of their computer models. And many of Microsoft's internal documents that have come out in the wake of their various antitrust trials show a high degree of arrogance.

And let's not forget that Microsoft is a convicted monopolist on not one, but two continents.

So again, I'm certainly not trying to justify Apple's marketing behavior. I'm not even trying to say that "two wrongs make a right" or "Apple is the lesser of two evils". I wish all companies would act in a more, well, mature manner. But, as I've said before, if we're going to single out Apple, let's put the focus on all players in the IT industry. It's unfair and even hypocritical to focus on Apple, to the exclusion of anyone else.

Of course, since this is a "Macs suck" thread, not an "Apple sucks" thread, it would be a lot more fun to discuss technical merits, not business practices and ethics.

On another note, I also think you're taking Apple's marketing materials a bit too seriously, and trying to read between the lines in an attempt to find something about Apple to hate. I don't think Apple ever claimed to have invented break-away power cords in a vacuum, without any outsider influence whatsoever. They do use it in a fairly novel way that's not in widespread use, and I think that's about as far as their marketing goes. Where would we be if a company was criticized whenever it was inspired by other ideas, instead of re-inventing the wheel with each new product?

Look at this point: Apple was the first to the market with built-in wireless capabilities in laptops. Now it's almost impossible to buy a laptop without built-in wireless capabilities. Should Dell be criticized because it "ripped off" Apple's idea? Absolutely not. Old ideas evolve and merge with new ones. No problem with that.

Or, geez, look at Alienware. I don't know if they still do, but Alienware once touted a design feature of its machines that kept cables organized and untangled. But one could argue that they were ripping off one of the features of the original iMac, which also featured cable minimalization. Now, should Alienware be criticized for claiming to "invent" tangle-free cable design? No, because its emphasis on that design wasn't meant to insinuate that it was a completely new and novel idea—it was just an attractive feature of the design of Alienware computers.

Likewise, Apple's not claiming to revolutionize the idea of the magnetic power cable, just that it's a novelty in Macs and laptops in general—which is true. They're using it as a selling point. Just because they emphasize it, does not mean they lay claim to its invention. You're simply reading too much into their advertising.

[sadolakced acid]

well, if you want to ignore apple ethics, then sure. but the ethics of the company play a part in my choice- for instance, i won't choose sony anymore, becuase of thier copy protection on thier CDs. it has affected my choice that blu-ray will suck, and it will affect my choice for many things. sure, i still buy sony, but only after careful examination, and only when quite beneficial.


as far as the powermac- aren't those discontinued? in contrast, the new macs, the ones that are "inspired by the ipod", and are basically a laptop's guts on a stand.

based on my dealings with laptops in general, i can pretty much say that, for a desktop, the new macs dont' seem that good at all.

first there's the premium for the compact parts. if you were to decide to get a new optical drive, assuming you could, it would require a laptop drive, i assume. a regular drive seems... a bit too big to fit in the mac. The building cost of a desktop from laptop parts is higher than an equal desktop from desktop parts. sure, there are slimline PCs, but those hardly seem good as well.

then, there's the problem of the whole thing being one package. sure, maybe you can upgrade th eparts inside- but you're stuck with the screen. you're stuck with that size.

which is why i say it's basically a laptop on a stand. to which i wonder: why not just get a laptop then? what's the point? for aesthetics?

i can't say much about OSX. i haven't used it. but the reasons to why OSX is better mostly entail problems with XP- problems i've never come across.

sure, it took me about 5 hours to install and configure all the software i wanted when i reinstalled windows (not becuase of any fatal errors or anything, i just wanted to get rid of 4 years worth of programs and files and such that had built up), but after that it's been smooth sailing.

quite frankly, i just don't see a reason to switch. i don't see a reason for mac users to go PC either.

[*mipadi*]

well, if you want to ignore apple ethics, then sure. but the ethics of the company play a part in my choice- for instance, i won't choose sony anymore, becuase of thier copy protection on thier CDs. it has affected my choice that blu-ray will suck, and it will affect my choice for many things. sure, i still buy sony, but only after careful examination, and only when quite beneficial.

I can respect such a decision, but it begs the question: If you feel so strongly about corporate ethics, why are you still using Windows? (I'm not trying to be a smartass, but your stance does raise that question.)

as far as the powermac- aren't those discontinued? in contrast, the new macs, the ones that are "inspired by the ipod", and are basically a laptop's guts on a stand.

I think you're talking about the iMac, I guess. At any rate, the PowerMac is still very much in the product line.

i can't say much about OSX. i haven't used it. but the reasons to why OSX is better mostly entail problems with XP- problems i've never come across.

There are certainly more reasons to switch than problems with XP. I can certainly say that the reasons I use OS X have little to do with perceived problems in XP.

[sadolakced acid]

becuase bill gates gives computers to poor kids to atone for his sins.

while steve jobs... just keeps making more money.

the power mac is still in production? did not know that. it's not the focus of the adverts.

what are reasons to switch then? if i'm having a prefectly fine time using windows, what are reasons to switch?

[forza]

becuase bill gates gives computers to poor kids to atone for his sins.

LMAO!



You're right. Bill Gates is like Andrew Carnegie on steroids. Giving away billions of dollars per year and stepping down from his company to help all the starving pigmies in New Guinea.

[sadolakced acid]

you know it. =]

[forza]

This has to be one of the funniest things I've ever seen.

Hahahaha!

[aubbob]

well. i have an apple laptop and i wouldnt ttrade it for anything because it works beautifully

so do i.. i love mine..

[*mipadi*]

what are reasons to switch then? if i'm having a prefectly fine time using windows, what are reasons to switch?

If you're happy using Windows, why do you want reasons to switch?

I certainly have no problem with a person using Windows. What does get annoying is when such a user goes out of his way to attack users of other platforms, even when those users are just trying to discuss something amongst themselves. Almost anytime the Macintosh is mentioned in this forum, someone waltzes in and says something about how Macs suck—even if that's not the topic of the thread in the first place! And often times, as this thread shows, most are using misinformation, outdated information, or thin reasoning to support their claims.

If a person is happy with his platform choice, I'm not sure why he needs to justify it by attacking the choices of others. It's one thing to discuss in an intelligent manner, but most of the time, the users in debates such as this don't really want to listen to anyone else's arguments, or admit that perhaps they reasoned in error.

So if you are interested in switching and want more information, I'd be happy to provide some good reasoning. If you want to know why I choose to use a Macintosh, I'd be happy to provide reasoning on that, too. But if you're happy with Windows, don't want to switch, and don't really care why I use a Macintosh, then I don't see the point in providing a list of reasons.

Basically, I'm here to discuss, not argue, and not to convince other people to switch who don't really have an interest in switching. While I appreciate people who introduce me to new ideas and technologies, I don't like it when people go out of their way to convert me to their platform when I'm happy with mine; so if you're happy with yours, for whatever reasons, and don't have any interest in switching, why discuss it?

If, however, you want to discuss the relative merits of platforms, open your mind to new ideas a bit, or just learn something new, I'd be happy to talk about it. I could certainly use a new perspective or mind-opening discussion, as well.

I might be a Mac user, but I have actively used a wide, wide variety of systems, and written software in a number of languages, so I do have some clue about the strengths and weaknesses of numerous platforms.

[sadolakced acid]

well, i made this thread in hopes that we would not have to deal with "mac sucks" comments in every single thread.

well, i'm intersted in reasons mostly because, well, i've never really seen a list that didn't include some comparison to windows and how mac was better.

i mean, yes, i'm not interested in switching. but i do want to know more about OSX. whats so great about it, etc.

[EddieV]

I want to know about Linux, though I can't read up much on it.

[*mipadi*]

well, i'm intersted in reasons mostly because, well, i've never really seen a list that didn't include some comparison to windows and how mac was better.

i mean, yes, i'm not interested in switching. but i do want to know more about OSX. whats so great about it, etc.

It's hard to explain a choice from a list of options without a comparison to other options (and I'll note that you made a lot of comparisons to Apple to justify your choice ) but I'll see what I can do.

I think that, unlike most people who have responded in this thread so far, I'm going to take a few moments to level some criticisms at my platform of choice—because, after all, no one is perfect.

Keep in mind, too, that this list comes from running systems with Mac OS 7, Mac OS 8, Mac OS 9, Mac OS X, Windows XP, Ubuntu Linux, Fedora Core Linux; as well as using Sun Solaris and Red Hat Linux fairly extensively.

(Side note, this is a pretty long list, but I thought I should be as clear as possible.)

1. Cocoa API. Probably my favorite part of OS X, Cocoa, the programming API on OS X, makes programming fun and easy. First of all, it's highly dynamic. Unlike APIs based on Java or C++, Objective-C (the language used by Cocoa) emphasizes the object-oriented paradigm by allowing a high degree of runtime (as opposed to compile-time) dyanamicism. This allows highly flexible applications, as well as easy support for plug-in interfaces. OS X offers a lot of ways to alter the behavior of an application without having to touch a line of source code (a necessity in closed-source apps).
   
   Furthermore, Cocoa emphasizes frameworks, or common repositories of code, and Apple consistently updates its own frameworks (SQLite was a nice addition in 10.4, for example). Third-party frameworks can also be easily used. This allows developers (like me!) to focus on making apps cool, not making them work. One of the nicest frameworks is, of course, the open-source project WebKit, that allows easy HTML/XHTML rendering in any application.
2. Proprietary hardware. Some people think this is bad, but I think it's a good thing. It makes Macintoshes just work. I don't have to mess around with drivers, for example. I just boot up the system and it works.
   
   This doesn't mean I can't add new hardware; in fact, generally adding new hardware is a breeze, too.
3. Installation/Uninstallation. Most applications on OS X can be installed by simply copying them to my hard drive, or even run from a CD, virtual disk, or external drive. Uninstallation is a matter of dragging an app to the trash. (Some applications to require an installer, but most don't.)
   
   Plus, applications can just be dragged around from place to place to move them, and, as noted, run from an external drive, usually without problem.
4. Simple, elegant interface. The interface is beautiful, but also functional and, most importantly, simple. No need for wizards like in Windows, and I can log in without a million bubbles popping up on my screen. Apple takes great care in designing the interface, and their interface development software, Interface Builder, makes it almost impossible to design a bad interface.
5. Simple, but powerful. I've never felt limited by OS X. It's simple but everyday use, but powerful for any task. Has a nice Unix foundation, too, so I can do the same stuff I'd do on Linux or Unix, but without all the hassle. Subversion, CVS, telnet, ssh—it's all there. So is powerful scripting support, enhanced by the default installation of Perl, Python, Ruby, and PHP.
6. Unix stuff. Piggybacking on my last point, OS X adds some handy Unix stuff, like the bash and tsch shells, all that those entail. I almost feel crippled when I switch to a system without a bash or tcsh command-line interface, since there's so much that can be done with it.
7. Unicode. Alright, a minor point, but Unicode is cool, and an industry standard!
8. Wireless that just works. I set up my preferred networks, and OS X automatically connects. I plug in an Ethernet cable, and OS X switches over flawlessly. I think this is supposed to happen on Windows, but it doesn't seem to work as consistently on all laptops.
9. Sleep. I'm a big advocate of putting computers to sleep. Reduce energy usage, man. My Mac goes to sleep automatically without problem. My PC's have to be put to sleep manually—I've never had consistent and flawless power management on any PC. (Linux is even worse—last I checked, most distributions didn't even support sleep! It may have been added to the kernel in the last year, though.)

Here are some things I don't like so much about OS X, or Apple in general:

1. Proprietary software. Proprietary hardware isn't my concern—proprietary software is. Apple open-sources a lot of OS X: the kernel; a lot of the core utilities, drivers, and software; and WedKit, just to name a few components. I'd like to see them add more to open-source development, though—or at least not use proprietary file formats (although many of their formats are open). I'm not saying they should take the GNU approach and release everything under the GPL (the GPL doesn't exactly encourage innovation per se), but releasing more under, say, a BSD license would be cool. (Of course, again, Apple does open-source a lot of stuff in OS X.)
2. Consistent interface. Overall Apple's UI design is better than anyone else's, but geez, make it consistent. Brushed metal here, standard interface there—make a choice and stick with it. (Apple does seem to be moving towards a consistent theme with 10.4, but it's not there yet.)
3. Mount points. Where are my mount points? On most *nix systems, I can mount a second hard drive at, say, /dev or /Users. The OS treats the system as a single system, not a bunch of hard drives. Why can't OS X do that?

[*kryogenix*]

What I hate about Apple is their stupid ad campaign as of late. See here for example:

http://movies.apple.com/movies/us/apple/ge...ork_480x376.mov

When full (as in not watered down) games start coming out for Macs in the same time frame as PCs, then we can debate whether using a Mac or a PC is more fun. It's the same reason I don't want to move to Linux just yet. Until they get more than just Doom, Unreal and Quake running natively (I don't want any of the Cedega garbage), I probably won't want to make it my primary OS.

[*mipadi*]

I don't see what's objectionable about that specific commercial. Apple is emphasizing the "fun" and creative things you can do with Macs out of the box, stuff like editing movies, recording/editing your own music, taking, editing, and organizing photos, that kind of stuff. It's simply a fact that most PC's don't come with that sort of stuff. There isn't really a good "clone" of iMovie or Garageband that is also free (and Windows Movie Maker can't hold a candle to iMovie). On the Windows side, you have Google's Picasa as an alternative to iPhoto, but the key is that you have to find it yourself—it doesn't come with the PC. It's simply a fact that often PC's are bundled with "bread and butter"-type apps: apps that are necessary (like MS Office, Quicken, and so forth), but not really "fun". Apple's just emphasizing its "fun" apps. I don't see how that's more repulsive than other companies emphasizing the highlights of their own products.

The key is market. You noted that you don't find a Mac to be fun because it can't run the latest games. Apple's clearly not targeting gamers with that ad. They're targeting the moms and dads of the world who might find it "fun" to make a movie of little Johnnie's developmental highlights, or record little Suzie playing her clarinet. Those types of people do spend a lot of time just doing "boring" stuff with their PCs, but playing the latest games isn't really any more exciting for them. Apple's not targeting the gamer enthusiasts; in fact, with those ads, they're not even targeting computer enthusiasts at all, because the code hackers, developers, and computer junkies don't care about that stuff, either. For example, I quickly removed Garageband from my computer because it was too damn big and I never used it.

And at any rate, the Apple commercials themselves are just supposed to be fun. I think a lot of PC users tend to take them too seriously. Of course, maybe I'm missing something. What do you find hateful about that commercial?

[sadolakced acid]

^

well, i think it's nice that you find it for yourself, so it's only there if you need it. you said yourself you removed garageband. sure, i had to remove quicken and AOL, but i am in general against all bundled software.

also, you can choose yourself. granted, i can see how this is a hassle for other users who don't want to take that effort- they want thier computer to be like a car, for instance.

the recent ads are slightly better; but the ads announcing the switch to intel chips? that was a blatant stab at PCs.

thier ad about viruses is also misleading; there are mac viruses out there, right? they make it sound as if there are none. i'm not sure if macs come with antivirus and a firewall, but if not, that sort of false security could be dangerous.

a question though:

what are the video cameras and digital cameras that can be used with a mac? virtually all? or only select ones?

[*mipadi*]

what are the video cameras and digital cameras that can be used with a mac? virtually all? or only select ones?

I'd say virtually all. I've never had a problem getting photographs off of a digital camera, or capturing film from a videocamera. Just plug it in and go.

Yes, it really is that easy!

[lanbexx]

ive really yet to figure out how plugging in a camera to a PC is that hard... it doesnt even need drivers yet its attacked in one of those mac vs pc ads. meh wtvr

i think the reason the mac vs pc debate is so bad is mainly cause of apple. there arent THAT many differences between the two. and i doubt so many PC users would really go out of their way to attack the mac if unprovoked. Apple seems to be an expert at provoking the PC base. with those mac vs PC ads, its not a matter of "we highlight these great parts of the Mac and OSX" its "we'll bash and say everything that is bad about the PC, and then support our product." its not just coporate practice but also public image that is really arrogant and bad.

id rather this thread be made into an apple sucks thread.
tho i find if funny. 2 years ago everyone that was anti microsoft was also anti bill gates. it was a bill vs steve world. now... you really cant hate gates anymore. so wheres the fun in that anymore?

[*mipadi*]

If you want to hate Apple, hate Apple. If you want to turn this from a "Macs suck" into an "Apple sucks" thread, then go right ahead. But I'll point out that, while it's easy to say, "I don't like Macintoshes" (it is, after all, an opinion, and an opinion doesn't need to be justified to others per se), it seems to be rather hard to argue the more general statement "Macs suck", as evidenced most of the posters who replied "Macs suck" have since retreated to "Well, let's just argue that Apple sucks." Kind of proves an earlier point I made: That one might not prefer Macintoshes, but it's hard to say that they're worthless machines.

I think of the new Apple ads as comical, even whimsical in nature. While they are meant to sell a product, I think (like many ads) they are to be taken with a grain of salt. They're fun. They're not meant to be below-the-belt insults, and I think if a PC user is seriously offended by them, he needs to check his sense of humor. Look at how often gaming-centric sites like Ctrl-Alt-Del or Penny Arcade! make jokes about Macs. Are there hordes of people running around saying how they hate those artists for making a few jokes? And remember how often those old Apple switcher ads were lampooned? Some of those parodies were pretty funny. PC users (and Mac users alike) had a good laugh making and watching those—but it seems when the tables are turned, and Apple/Mac users are poking fun at PCs, PC user are all too quick to drop their senses of humor and cry foul.

[forza]

If you want to hate Apple, hate Apple. If you want to turn this from a "Macs suck" into an "Apple sucks" thread, then go right ahead. But I'll point out that, while it's easy to say, "I don't like Macintoshes" (it is, after all, an opinion, and an opinion doesn't need to be justified to others per se), it seems to be rather hard to argue the more general statement "Macs suck", as evidenced most of the posters who replied "Macs suck" have since retreated to "Well, let's just argue that Apple sucks." Kind of proves an earlier point I made: That one might not prefer Macintoshes, but it's hard to say that they're worthless machines.

I think of the new Apple ads as comical, even whimsical in nature. While they are meant to sell a product, I think (like many ads) they are to be taken with a grain of salt. They're fun. They're not meant to be below-the-belt insults, and I think if a PC user is seriously offended by them, he needs to check his sense of humor. Look at how often gaming-centric sites like Ctrl-Alt-Del or Penny Arcade! make jokes about Macs. Are there hordes of people running around saying how they hate those artists for making a few jokes? And remember how often those old Apple switcher ads were lampooned? Some of those parodies were pretty funny. PC users (and Mac users alike) had a good laugh making and watching those—but it seems when the tables are turned, and Apple/Mac users are poking fun at PCs, PC user are all too quick to drop their senses of humor and cry foul.

Yeah, but I still want to slap the douchebag actor that plays in them. He reeks of Steve Jobs' ass and stale marijuana, and yes, I have a TV that powerful.

Seriously, why didn't Steve Jobs just play that part? You know he wrote the script...

[*liquidize*]

You know what everyone is forgetting is that, No matter what everyones going to have their own little opinions, WHERE THE HELL ARE WE GOING TO GO TRYING TO CONVINCE THEM? NOWHERE


I personally view the mac as much more ideal, because of its OS..Apples support is pretty nice too.

[lanbexx]

the reason i think so many PC users are pissed off by these commercials is because, unlike ctrl-alt-del or penny arcade, Apple is actually sponsoring this.

also, those spoofs are obviously VERY rediculous or use very solid facts (mainly the game library point.... and thats about it i think). the apple commercials tend to exaggerate the facts to suit them. to say that Macs have no viruses and that every PC gets them is stretching the truth quite a bit. also, those old "i got the blue screen of death everytime" ads from way back when.

and that a professional company would sponsor attacks against PC USERS, well, i think thats one of the huge reasons PC users have suddenly become so defensive. if a satrical comic or some PC fanboy attacks a mac or its user, well thats easy to take with a grain of salt. to see professional ads cooked up by the Apple PR department, well thats a bit harder to take with a light heart. sice theyre actually not THAT funny.

other comics lampoon PCs (there was one with birds, and windows kept bragging that its new nest would have an elevator and stuff, but the mac pointed out that yet again the upgrade was delayed.) and those dont create nearly that much animosity and are easy to laugh at. (i actually like the mac windows linux bird one.)