Making the Debate Forum Exclusive, What do you think? Options

[sadolakced acid]

it's fun being an elitist.

or, shall i say, it makes life more interesting.

sure, we shouldn't make it exclusive. but do we have to stop being elitist?

[marzipan]

I probably couldn't disagree with this position more.

Why? The Debate Forum is already primarily made up of a core group of elitists who think that their knowledge—and opinion—of certain topics gives them a special ranking above that of other members. The Debate Forum is, quite frankly, hostile to anyone new who comes in here, people who express another opinion. Sure, some idiots make their way into here, but who cares? Just deal with it.

I find issues with who would be qualified to pick who should be granted permission to post in the Debate forum. I'm going to publicly post, here and now, that if such a policy is implemented, I will never, ever sit on such a committee. I probably won't even come to the Debate forum anymore.

Everyone has a right to express their thoughts. We might think some people's thoughts are ridiculous and baseless, but people still have a right to express their opinions. And that is a principle I will stand for no matter what. No one—no one—here is qualified to judge who is good enough to post their thoughts in this forum.

i agree with you that everyone has a right to express their opinions, but in certain topics in the debate forum, people aren't really debating. this somewhat relates to the "createspam" topic because there's an increasing amount of spam in the debate topic. but now that i've read your post, i think that we shouldn't make it exclusive, but do something so that there's not as much spam.

[sadolakced acid]

well, first off, we could start by actually having good topics.

which is something we're lacking.

and i don't see a solution.

[marzipan]

i think the debate topic has very disputable topics. it's more about the people posting and the actual posts.

[sadolakced acid]

most debates i see have been beaten into the ground.

abortion? gay marriage? we've done them.

when we're not against idiots, we stalemate.

[marzipan]

but they're still disputed all the time..on the news, in the papers. so people have different views and opinions on it.

[NoSex]

Why? The Debate Forum is already primarily made up of a core group of elitists who think that their knowledge—and opinion—of certain topics gives them a special ranking above that of other members.

Uhhhhmm. I think you're trying to cut me down.
Uncool. If I'm wrong, please correct me. Otherwise, try not to make such self-righteous assumptions. Because, I don't feel inside myself what you have described here.

The Debate Forum is, quite frankly, hostile to anyone new who comes in here, people who express another opinion. Sure, some idiots make their way into here, but who cares? Just deal with it.

I don't think that the debate forum, as a whole (or even close to a third) is generally hostile towards new debators. In all honesty, I welcome new debators. If anyone is "hostile" to anything, it is thoughtless, rule-breaking, and disruptive posts in the debate threads.

I find issues with who would be qualified to pick who should be granted permission to post in the Debate forum. I'm going to publicly post, here and now, that if such a policy is implemented, I will never, ever sit on such a committee. I probably won't even come to the Debate forum anymore.

Wow? You would never come back? Because we're trying to do something different to increase the quality of the Debate Forums? I think you may have gotten the wrong idea.

Either way, the process in which people would be granted permission would not be strict, and things like general intelligence would not be of interest. What we would want to look for would be the intent to debate and show respect for the nature of debate. Meaning, members who will devote some time to actually think out their posts and take time to revisit threads and continue discussion.

Everyone has a right to express their thoughts. We might think some people's thoughts are ridiculous and baseless, but people still have a right to express their opinions. And that is a principle I will stand for no matter what. No one—no one—here is qualified to judge who is good enough to post their thoughts in this forum.

This forum isn't for just posting a thought. How clear isn't that?!
This is a debate thread. There should be something more expected among posters in these forums than the simple act of an expression of belief. If anyone should know that, it should be you. Not to mention, this talk about "rights" is just way off base. I think people are really missing my point. I don't want a nazi regime of debators (that's the last thing I want), and I think if we were to do this ( and do it right) that there wouldn't be any serious problems. In fact, I would imagine a great increase in the quality of debate here. I know many more communities with exclusive debate forums, and they don't seem to have any of these problems you are alluding to. I'm sure that anyone who truly wants to debate would have that oppurtunity, I don't see the big deal.

But, I think it seems rather obvious that this idea isn't supported by (pretty much) anyone other than me.

Soooo, I can pretty much drop it. But, I still think that our debate threads are, and have been for some time, rather boring. Whatever improvements could be made, I would hope would be made.

[sadolakced acid]

i would not post in such a debate forum either.

it woudlnt be fun.

[NoSex]

i would not post in such a debate forum either.

it woudlnt be fun.

So, are you saying you don't actually like serious debate or interesting discussion?
You prefer making fun of people for repeating arguments and antagonizing those who don't even try to justify their beliefs?

[Spirited Away]

The debate forum worked well when mods frequent this forum and were actively involved in the debates. Remember those days? So, I think so long as we have at least two mods to "patrol" and strictly enforce the rules here, everything would be dandy.

To compromise, I think we could suggest a re-write of the rules--clearly define them--to ensure that anything less than "semi-intelligent" would be closed/discarded/warned/kicked out on its behind. Interviews would be a little over-the-top, and the exclusive barriers wouldn't be very "welcoming", IMHO.

it's fun being an elitist.
or, shall i say, it makes life more interesting.
sure, we shouldn't make it exclusive. but do we have to stop being elitist?

The answer is obviously "NO", damn you! Don't ask such nonsensical questions!

Er...

Oh yea Justin, remember Princess and her friend IIOOOII (or something)? It wasn't fun for ANY of us to have to deal with them, so monsieur Acid Bath Slayer is right on the dot with that one.

[*disco infiltrator*]

Oh dear, princess123321 or whatever? Ughhh.
And um that one aznnewyork kid or whatsit?

That really wasn't pleasant at all.

It's just, it's hard to moderate ... stupid people. You know? I can't warn someone for being stupid. So, I don't know how mods can cure the situation...

[sadolakced acid]

yet, really, there's nothing for us to really debate and have a result other than a stalemate.

[Ajmalhuuss]

I don't think anyone was hostile towards me when I first started posting in the debate forum.

I think this has been mentioned a million times already but I will make it a million and one. The debate forum is not just about posting your opinion on a topic, its about trying to explain your opinion to others with reason. Just saying, "I am against" something does not qualify as a good post in a debate thread. Infact a post like that, to me, looks worse then dog . Posts like those and other meaningless arguments between few members, over things that have nothing to do with the original topic, do nothing but make threads run into counless pages of nonsense, thus killing the DEBATE.

One last time, the title of the forum is not the POST YOUR OPINIONS IN HERE forum, its the DEBATE forum.

[xXYouMeBedNowXx]

I would have to agree with sadolakced acid.

Understand this, we are trying to get rid of those that are uselessly stating their opinions without explanation, and by weeding out those that have insignificant or "incompetent" arguments. However, it is in the very essence of Debate that their presence is required. I would agree to some extent that there is a high calibur of thinkers and debaters on CB, and that it would be interesting to see the debates that flourish from such a group. However, it is still unquestionably wrong to deem whose opinions are worthy of argument or accountability due reputation.

I would suggest, instead, having a subforum instead of completely wiping out Debate. It can accomodate both solutions.

Correct me if you suppose I am wrong.

[*RockizLife*]

Woo, just what we need. A "cB debate" team ruling out who should and should not be able to post. Kind of defeats the purpose of debate, huh?

Don't shut out peoples opinions because you're too lazy to read the forums. And it does get on my nerves when people post something and someone else says "That's already been stated." Well good for them, they agree with me! It's still my opinion.

[NoSex]

Woo, just what we need. A "cB debate" team ruling out who should and should not be able to post. Kind of defeats the purpose of debate, huh?

Don't shut out peoples opinions because you're too lazy to read the forums. And it does get on my nerves when people post something and someone else says "That's already been stated." Well good for them, they agree with me! It's still my opinion.

*cough* Straw Man *cough*

[marzipan]

Woo, just what we need. A "cB debate" team ruling out who should and should not be able to post. Kind of defeats the purpose of debate, huh?

Don't shut out peoples opinions because you're too lazy to read the forums. And it does get on my nerves when people post something and someone else says "That's already been stated." Well good for them, they agree with me! It's still my opinion.

he doesn't want to shut out people's opinions. he wants people to stop spamming and make posts that contribute and mean something for the thread. because that's a growing problem here.

[*RockizLife*]

he doesn't want to shut out people's opinions. he wants people to stop spamming and make posts that contribute and mean something for the thread. because that's a growing problem here.

Yeah, I agree it is. Kind of like what Acid Bath Slayer did right above your last post. So warn them, ban them? Actually do what you're suppost to be doing as a modderator in the first place?

[sadolakced acid]

you sound intelligent enough.

but i think this idea won't happen.

[*disco infiltrator*]

Yeah, I agree it is. Kind of like what Acid Bath Slayer did right above your last post. So warn them, ban them? Actually do what you're suppost to be doing as a modderator in the first place?

Again, I cannot warn someone for being stupid.

[NoSex]

If the debate forum were to be made exclusive, would members who were not in the "group" still be able to read the threads?

Of course. That would be encouraged. No harm in it.

Again, I cannot warn someone for being stupid.

Are you saying I was being stupid?!

[*disco infiltrator*]

No...that it's hard to moderate the Debate forum because people don't blatantly break rules set in the Community Guidelines, they're just...really stupid, and their actions make it very unpleasant for the rest of us.

[*I Shot JFK*]

^ then perhaps an special set of rules which apply solely to the debate forum would be a good idea?

i generally oppose this plan, for reasons already expressed.

and alsom how on earth did i make marzipan's list of frequent posters in this forum? how odd.

[marzipan]

^ because i've seen you post....so i just added you.

[*disco infiltrator*]

^ then perhaps an special set of rules which apply solely to the debate forum would be a good idea?

i generally oppose this plan, for reasons already expressed.

and alsom how on earth did i make marzipan's list of frequent posters in this forum? how odd.

Yeah, and how did I not?

And, we already tried making a special set of rules for the forum, but it didn't work. People still come in all the time going, "Well, I'm not going to read all of this thread, I'll just post what I think", and get all huffypuffy when people tell them that the point has already been stated or refuted. Or, people still get in here and say, "But don't argue with me about it; it's just my opinion". Nate's just trying to think of things to eliminate these people who do not respect what the Debate forum is here for. It's not that hard for someone who is new to read a few of the most recent pages of a thread and get acquainted with what's being talked about now, rather than just the first post in a thread where there's 50 pages. I did it when I first came to Createblog, but, people are too lazy now, I guess...

But, you can't moderate that. I can't warn/suspend people for being too lazy, or not knowing something. That's not fair.