should we make the lounge an unmoderated forum? Options

[*I Shot JFK*]

mona, who gives a f**k if here is a thread which doesnt include everyone? some people will enjoy it. its valid. it should stay.

[*mipadi*]

mona, who gives a f**k if here is a thread which doesnt include everyone? some people will enjoy it. its valid. it should stay.

Because then it's likely that The Lounge will become crowded with exclusive, spam-like topics, and crowd out the actual discussions. Occasional inside jokes or friendly banter is perfectly fine, but do we really need a whole bunch of threads that revolve around the inside jokes of a few selected individuals? Can't such discussion be taken to PM or IM?

[*I Shot JFK*]

if people wanted actual in depth discussion out of CB, then it would have evolved by now.

if its a massive deal, move thm to the sandbox, dont close them. let peopl ehave their un if its what they want out of cb.

[*Libertie*]

if its a massive deal, move thm to the sandbox, dont close them. let peopl ehave their un if its what they want out of cb.

I agree with that. Sandbox doesn't necessarily have to be JUST games. We can keep "meaningful" conversation in the lounge and let them do whatever they want, within reason, in the sandbox.

[*I Shot JFK*]

oh, and btw, why was forum games moved and renamed?

i thought we were trying to unclutter interests... and its a stupid name. slight tangent

[*Libertie*]

^I'm not sure why it was moved, but I know that it was renamed because some people didn't like "Forum Games" - it was suggested that we rename it "Games" instead, and then someone (Ed, I think) came up with "sandbox". To me it broadens the definition so then it doesn't hafta be just games.. I haven't got any better ideas, so I haven't really had a complaint about it. XD

We have had a few people who don't like the new name, I'm interested in hearing other ideas, though.. Perhaps that can be taken into consideration if there are enough people who feel the same way?

[*Zatanna*]

^^ I like the name, "Sandbox."

I really don't think that everyone will agree 100% with anyone regarding in-joke threads or spamming. Hopefully everyone will learn to compromise and there can some sort of balance.

[*I Shot JFK*]

just throw them in the sandbox, or whatever.

there is no reason to stop people having their fun.

[*mipadi*]

just throw them in the sandbox, or whatever.

there is no reason to stop people having their fun.

What exactly is wrong with having "inside joke"- and clique-type stuff go on in PM's or IM's?

[*Statues/Shadows*]

You can't really have multi-person conversation via PM. No comment on the IMing. Plus, I wind up having that kind of PM conversation plus another at the same time. Not that I do just spout inside jokes, but you know.

[*I Shot JFK*]

What exactly is wrong with having "inside joke"- and clique-type stuff go on in PM's or IM's?

what's wrong with having it go to the sandboz?

and you cant have multi-person chats via pm anyway

[*Libertie*]

what's wrong with having it go to the sandboz?

You stole my response. XD

But no, I was going to say, in addition, that we don't necessarily want these things to go on OUTSIDE of the forums..

If we want CB to be more active, it doesn't seem right to direct traffic into the live chat or into PMs. That would be encouraging them not to post, and it would drive activity into things like IM and chatrooms that would otherwise be spent on the forums. We should encourage them to keep posting, and if allowing them to have their fun in a different forum keeps them on CB, I'm all for that. I don't want members to stop posting, and I especially don't want to lose members to the chatroom.

[*Statues/Shadows*]

Yeah, I think Dani makes a good point. One of the most irritating things that makes it so cliquey and stupid joke filled it people's chat tendencies. Leaves the rest of us clueless and frustrated.(To be fair, I don't want to know what they're talking about, but still, that alone isn't good for the sake of the community.

Yes, createblog always has been and always will be inevitably cliquey. However, I think it's too fargone at this point.

[juliar]

I agree with Dani. cb isn't going to become much more active if everyone just PMs each other. i mean, you could say that "Anonymous shoutouts" is just a bunch of inside jokes. why don't we take that to PM?

[*mipadi*]

cB isn't boring due to a lack of activity per se; it's boring because there are no actual discussions. The majority of the threads on cB are set up to enable "drive-by posting". A person is posed a simple question ("What is your phobia?", "What should you be doing right now?", etc.) which is easily answered. Then, the thread quickly fills up with similar answers. Eventually they get boring to read, and no one returns to the thread. Even if someone does return to the thread, rarely do they comment on anything anyone else has posted. Threads are dead not due to a lack of activity (most threads in The Lounge have plenty of activity), but due to a lack of interactive activity.

Basically, cB makes it easy for people to post sh*t. Of course, it doesn't make it so easy for people to post interesting, "discussionable" material. Take a look: Most of the threads that require actual back-and-forth discussion quickly die on cB.

This isn't true in all forums on cB. I can't speak for all of them, but I'll use Debate as an example. Debate's threads generally feature actual discussion. People often return to threads in Debate to continue to advance the discussion. This doesn't happen in places like The Lounge, though. How often do people begin their posts with "I'm too lazy to read the whole thread" or even "I'm too lazy to read the whole first post"? A lot. And then people who post in threads here don't stick around to watch the discussion play out. They just leave and never come back. "Oh, cool, I got my post count up, time to move on, bye."

I'd like to see cB have more in terms of discussion, which is why I think that--to an extent--free-form discussion is a good thing. I used to spend a lot of time in a forum that was like The Lounge, in that it had a lot of random discussion. It was fun because people actually had conversations. They--gasp!--commented on posts other than the first and/or last post in the thread. They--gasp!--read the whole thread before posting. Basically, they put thought and effort into their posts.

Now, I'm sure a lot of people will read that and say, "Thought and effort--but that's work! And work's not fun!" But that's the thing, it was fun. It was fun because there were real discussions on that forum, and people got to know each other really well.

That's what I think cB could best work on. I, for one, don't feel like I know a lot of people here. I don't like going on AIM, so the only way I can get to know people is through the forums. But there's so little real discussion here that it's hard to get to know people.

So, basically, my idea of an "unmoderated forum" is one in which discussion is random, not in the sense that people just post things like "Hey buddy, how are you doing?" and "Hey man, haven't seen you in a while" or "Hey, let's talk abou that inside joke we have." My idea of an "unmoderated forum" is one in which someone posts an intriguing topic (something more intriguing than "What's the weather like where you live?" or something like that), and people actually discuss the topic, and actually return to the thread and discuss others' posts. And sure, it may go off on wild tangents at times, but it will still relate back to the original topic in that there's a clear (read: not random) progression of thought from one point to another. In other words, people will have a conversation.

I think I'm in the minority, because it seems like people just want The Lounge to be a place where they can divide into their select groups and just chit-chat aimlessly with friends. Nothing wrong with that. It's not how I see The Lounge, but if that's the general consensus, then that's the direction we should take.

(I also know that it doesn't matter one bit what I just said, because no one is going to read this whole post, anyway.)

[*Statues/Shadows*]

I read the whole thing before you mentioned people not reading the whole thing at the bottom. And I appaud you, very much.



Therefore, I propose a plan in which I get to chop off the head of anyone who cannot prove themself to be a worthy, intelligent life form. It'll stop the stupidity crisis and I imagine it'd prove a great form of anger management for me. I have AP tests coming up, and I can't handle that stress, so bring it on, bitches

You know, I used to really enjoy and respect 85% of cb members, but the demagraphic has just been shot to hell since then. I don't particularly like disliking people, because then I become more unlikable in effect, but nevertheless, it's occuring.

[*incoherent*]

i read it, michael, and i agree.

[Rampage]

cB isn't boring due to a lack of activity per se; it's boring because there are no actual discussions. The majority of the threads on cB are set up to enable "drive-by posting". A person is posed a simple question ("What is your phobia?", "What should you be doing right now?", etc.) which is easily answered. Then, the thread quickly fills up with similar answers. Eventually they get boring to read, and no one returns to the thread. Even if someone does return to the thread, rarely do they comment on anything anyone else has posted. Threads are dead not due to a lack of activity (most threads in The Lounge have plenty of activity), but due to a lack of interactive activity.

Basically, cB makes it easy for people to post sh*t. Of course, it doesn't make it so easy for people to post interesting, "discussionable" material. Take a look: Most of the threads that require actual back-and-forth discussion quickly die on cB.

This isn't true in all forums on cB. I can't speak for all of them, but I'll use Debate as an example. Debate's threads generally feature actual discussion. People often return to threads in Debate to continue to advance the discussion. This doesn't happen in places like The Lounge, though. How often do people begin their posts with "I'm too lazy to read the whole thread" or even "I'm too lazy to read the whole first post"? A lot. And then people who post in threads here don't stick around to watch the discussion play out. They just leave and never come back. "Oh, cool, I got my post count up, time to move on, bye."

I'd like to see cB have more in terms of discussion, which is why I think that--to an extent--free-form discussion is a good thing. I used to spend a lot of time in a forum that was like The Lounge, in that it had a lot of random discussion. It was fun because people actually had conversations. They--gasp!--commented on posts other than the first and/or last post in the thread. They--gasp!--read the whole thread before posting. Basically, they put thought and effort into their posts.

Now, I'm sure a lot of people will read that and say, "Thought and effort--but that's work! And work's not fun!" But that's the thing, it was fun. It was fun because there were real discussions on that forum, and people got to know each other really well.

That's what I think cB could best work on. I, for one, don't feel like I know a lot of people here. I don't like going on AIM, so the only way I can get to know people is through the forums. But there's so little real discussion here that it's hard to get to know people.

So, basically, my idea of an "unmoderated forum" is one in which discussion is random, not in the sense that people just post things like "Hey buddy, how are you doing?" and "Hey man, haven't seen you in a while" or "Hey, let's talk abou that inside joke we have." My idea of an "unmoderated forum" is one in which someone posts an intriguing topic (something more intriguing than "What's the weather like where you live?" or something like that), and people actually discuss the topic, and actually return to the thread and discuss others' posts. And sure, it may go off on wild tangents at times, but it will still relate back to the original topic in that there's a clear (read: not random) progression of thought from one point to another. In other words, people will have a conversation.

I think I'm in the minority, because it seems like people just want The Lounge to be a place where they can divide into their select groups and just chit-chat aimlessly with friends. Nothing wrong with that. It's not how I see The Lounge, but if that's the general consensus, then that's the direction we should take.

A lot of these "aimless inside joke" coversations have come from is the basic idea that "it's just a forum, it's not real life don't take it seriously." But this forum should be taken if only slightly more seriously, for one you are not respecting all of the people who have put their time and effort into MAKING this entire site and you are also not giving enough respect to your fellow members who might not have the time to weed through random incoherant bullshit. I'm not saying that CB should advance more on controlling general posting because general posting isn't the problem, the problem is that people want to increase their "status" on CB rather than generating anything worth contribution or anything to challange in opinions. This shouldn't sqaush completely the fraternizing that happens within CB's PMs or it's chat, I like the idea that maybe these things should be redirected to "The Sandbox". But CB is becomming somewhat boring by trying to sort through the interesting things from the inside jokes.

[*rtc_nospeakenglish*]

im going to log in for 30 seconds just to say:

I didn't read any of the other posts ( because frankly, mine is the only one that should matter ) and I say Yes it should.

kkthnx

- Solipsist

[*Statues/Shadows*]

Oh, oh the irony

[*I Shot JFK*]

i still think that, if discussion in the form which michael's post suggested was what people wanted ou tof the lounge, rather than just out of debate and so on, it would have evolved by now on its own.

let what will be, be, and move anything that is TOO obviously exclusive to the sandbox.

[*mipadi*]

i still think that, if discussion in the form which michael's post suggested was what people wanted ou tof the lounge, rather than just out of debate and so on, it would have evolved by now on its own.

I thought that at first, too, but I don't think that's the case; I think users have just been conditioned to not engage in discussion.

Look at this example. Say I read something cool about, I dunno, we'll say penguins. And I think, "Huh, that's cool, I ought to share this with cB." The typical thing to do is come here, post about that cool thing I learned about penguins—and then immediately end it with "So what cool things have you learned lately?" or something like that, which completely destroys the original intent of the post. No one discusses the thing I learned about penguins, or anything else anyone posts; they just answer that single question and move on.

My point is that people should just feel free to post cool topics that pop into their head, and not feel a need to ask a superficial question to make it "worthwhile". Merely posting an interesting thought is worthwhile, and worthy of discussion.

[*Weird addiction*]

The correction: Ik houd niet van Nederlands maar ik houd van Nederlandse mensen.
So i guess you're from wallonie since it's not your native language?
Do you know the tv show "10 voor taal"? The Flemish seem to be better at Dutch than the Dutch themselves. (because they usually win).

Dank je wel! Nee, ik heb de naam "tien voor taal" gehoord maar ik heb het nog niet gezien. Vlaamse mensen zijn beter dan Nederlandse mensen? Dat is nieuwe. En ja, ik ben van wallonië. Nederlands is een heel moelijke taal maar het is belangrijk als ik in België te blijven.

Oh my god! Phewww. I've been learning dutch for 2 years now, haha. Correct meeeeeeeee!! Thanks, haha.

[flc]

mona, who gives a f**k if here is a thread which doesnt include everyone? some people will enjoy it. its valid. it should stay.

Even though you are the most stressed out cB member I've ever seen, I agree with ya. The Lounge should be more layed back than that. Why even have help forums for various sites? Let's just say that the majority of the members here don't have a Blogger. By what Mona's saying, we shouldn't have a Blogger forum because only a few people will actually be able to make use of it.

Therefore, I propose a plan in which I get to chop off the head of anyone who cannot prove themself to be a worthy, intelligent life form. It'll stop the stupidity crisis and I imagine it'd prove a great form of anger management for me.

You know, I used to really enjoy and respect 85% of cb members, but the demagraphic has just been shot to hell since then. I don't particularly like disliking people, because then I become more unlikable in effect, but nevertheless, it's occuring.

Yes, because that will TOTALLY help them to be more of a "worthy intelligent life form."

Your attitude towards other cB members who are not as "worthy" as you is basically the epitome of any elitism existing on this message board.

Just because someone makes a lot of typos, or doesn't use correct grammar, or makes a thread or posts something that you don't see as intelligent, should we ostracize them? Or have less respect for them? Of course not.

I mean really, don't take offense, but 90% of the time when I see a post of yours, it's something deragatory. You seem so strained on these forums. The way you make it sound, you're wasting your time with other people who aren't as acute as you, so why spend time here?

[*Statues/Shadows*]

I didn't say a thing about most any of that .

There was no comparison to myself involved, because I'm far from perfect and am well aware of that. It isn't eletism to want the level of discourse to improve. When you look at schools, for example, almost all of them are divided into class levels. While perhaps a form of elitism in itself, the highest level classes contain the best students, because it is much easier to learn in a place where everyone actually cares about, and is capable of, learning. Does this make the lower level classes inferior? Not necessariyl, but yes, the people in those classes do have to work harder to keep up with the rest. And they aren't really less "worthy" for it, but at the same time, that's the way it should be.
Those lower level students are far from totally useless, but they still need to improve. Thus, people who post useless things aren't in themselves useless, but need to improve for the sake of the community.

Which leads to your last point. Most of the older members are not happy here. We may not be satisfied, but we try. We try because we know we've had better days, and have hope that they can be good again. Seeing as I'm obviously not going to cut off anyone's head, I do actually have faith in the members here. I don't think they're so far below me or whatever (and I really don't mean any of this pompously), but rather I think they have potential to make it interesting here again. As for why I'm here, I do like people, and there's still something irrisitable that's holding me here. It can't be helped really, and that's probably a good sign.

In short:
I am not being an elitist.
I want changes. Other people want changes.
However, no changes will occur the way things are now.
We care enough to try to make changes because we know how it was, and we know it can be good again.
I do not think everyone on here is an idiot.
Read Michael's posts in this topic. He says things better than I do.