Why aren't Muslims speaking out? Options

[radhikaeatsraman]

I was having a discussion with my uncle and my father about the current situation with terrorism and the Middle East. During the discussion, I kept emphasizing that the majority of Muslims are good people and probably don't support terrorists and their actions. But then they said that they're all keeping quiet, and that by doing that, they're indirectly supporting it. By ignoring it, it's going to continue.

Then, they went on to say that in order for the terrorists to commit these acts, they need money for weapons and other equipment. Who provides it? Right after 9/11, millions of Muslims across the US were caught having connections to al-Qaeda, and many of them are in prison for it.

So why aren't "good Muslims" speaking out? Is it because of fear, or are they quietly supporting it?

[*CrackedRearView*]

It would be unfair (and quite illogical) to say that they're supporting it quietly, but then again we can't postulate as to why they wouldn't speak out and be 100% accurate.

It could be that they're afraid, but it could also be a social thing. From what I know, Muslims are generally quiet, keep-to-yourself kind of people (it's just a more that is written in their social structure), but I really have no idea.

Either side could be negated.

[sadolakced acid]

do you fault christians who don't speak out about pedophile priests?

[Comptine]

Then, they went on to say that in order for the terrorists to commit these acts, they need money for weapons and other equipment. Who provides it? Right after 9/11, millions of Muslims across the US were caught having connections to al-Qaeda, and many of them are in prison for it.

Many of the millions of muslims that were imprisoned were wrongfully so under the Patriot Act. Many of the terrorist groups get big money from oil and political ties. Also, individuals invest a great deal into their cells/groups. It's not like they have like donation tins that fellow Muslims put money in. The connections that Muslims were arrested for were rather stupid. They were suspected because one of their relatives was part of al-Qaeda or they lived in the same neighborhood or they were friends. Also, when the government arrested one person who was suspected, they would also arrest many of their immediate family members. That how the number of suspects became millions of Muslims.

It's impossible for average/normal Muslims to support the radicals. I have a friend who was harassed and tormented because people called her a terrorist.

It's hard to speak up in any group that's based on a strong idea or culture. For instance, the Japanese and Germans. The Japanese military slaughter millions of Koreans and Chinese in the most inhumane ways. That doesn't mean all Japanese supported that kinda of brutality (although many grew up not knowing about it so when Japan is accused of it, many Japanese deny it). Nazis killed millions of Jews but not all Germans supported it. And Muslims do go against it. After 9/11, many Muslims became more open about their religion and culture to teach what Islam was about.

[*CrackedRearView*]

Many of the millions of muslims that were imprisoned were wrongfully so under the Patriot Act. Many of the terrorist groups get big money from oil and political ties. Also, individuals invest a great deal into their cells/groups. It's not like they have like donation tins that fellow Muslims put money in. The connections that Muslims were arrested for were rather stupid. They were suspected because one of their relatives was part of al-Qaeda or they lived in the same neighborhood or they were friends. Also, when the government arrested one person who was suspected, they would also arrest many of their immediate family members. That how the number of suspects became millions of Muslims.

It's impossible for average/normal Muslims to support the radicals. I have a friend who was harassed and tormented because people called her a terrorist.

It's hard to speak up in any group that's based on a strong idea or culture. For instance, the Japanese and Germans. The Japanese military slaughter millions of Koreans and Chinese in the most inhumane ways. That doesn't mean all Japanese supported that kinda of brutality (although many grew up not knowing about it so when Japan is accused of it, many Japanese deny it). Nazis killed millions of Jews but not all Germans supported it. And Muslims do go against it. After 9/11, many Muslims became more open about their religion and culture to teach what Islam was about.

Yes, but don't be ridiculous. What's our alternative? Let the cells multiply and unify?

Guilty by association works with me if it'll keep my little brother's school from getting bombed.

[*kryogenix*]

do you fault christians who don't speak out about pedophile priests?

Didn't they have a meeting in the Vatican about the sex abuse scandals? The Catholic Church is not afraid to defrock priests.

I've heard nothing on the news about Muslim clerics condemning the riots. Neither have I heard of many clerics condeming terrorism. They issue fatwahs against people who write books, but when someone commits a terrorist act, nothing is done.

Muslims in the west are treated much better than Christians in the middle east.

Can we really say Islam is the religion of peace then?

[Comptine]

^ Islam is a peaceful religion like nearly all the other major religions. How people interpret the religion is an entirely different story. Christians have radical, bible swearing followers that attack 'heretics'. Most Muslims I meet are extremely kind and speak out little about terrorism because they view it as a shameful mark on their religion. Only the younger generations speak out (in America) because they grew up with a diverse culture and learn to debate and stand up for their opinions. However, most of the older generations grew up knowing the fear of terrorism and the backlash. While I think the majority should be more vocal, I can see why they are hesitant to speak out.

CrackedReadView, I agree about attacking the cells and ending terrorism but not at the cost of violating civil liberties. There is no use to arrest and contain entire families. These people are not allowed to consult with a lawyer or know their charges or communicate with anyone outside of the prison. Many of them are kept in isolation. I can understand arresting one family member and keeping a tab on the others. By blind going in guns blazing, we stoop to the terrorists' levels and fuel their hatred. I don't want our country to have to apologize and pay compensation 40 years from now like they did for the Japanese internment camps. There's a difference between taking precautions and taking ignorant measures.

[sadolakced acid]

Didn't they have a meeting in the Vatican about the sex abuse scandals? The Catholic Church is not afraid to defrock priests.

I've heard nothing on the news about Muslim clerics condemning the riots. Neither have I heard of many clerics condeming terrorism. They issue fatwahs against people who write books, but when someone commits a terrorist act, nothing is done.

Muslims in the west are treated much better than Christians in the middle east.

Can we really say Islam is the religion of peace then?

last i heard, the catholic church had decided to defend the pedophile priests.

they've probably changed, but it doesn't affect my point.

[*disco infiltrator*]

Uh, people who speak out against the terrorist next door are going to get killed.

[radhikaeatsraman]

But if every average Muslim spoke out and banded together, the minority would eventually die out.

[Spirited Away]

They do speak out. MPAC, MAT, the Free Muslim Coalition and CAIR, among many other organizations have spoken out against terrorism. Obviously, the media emphasizes more on the fundamentalist aspects of Islam and terrorism, and consequently, non-Muslims understand so little about how true Muslims feel about terrorism.

It isn't easy to just "speak out". There are many, many Muslims in the US with families in countries that house terrorists. Do you recognize the possible dangers one's family is in when one speaks out? Though to my understanding, more and more Muslims are pulling together to take a stronger stance against terrorism. They are taking a lot of risks.

[sadolakced acid]

the fact that hamas got elected should say that yes, they do indeed support some terrorists.

and yes, the war on terror is in the mind of every young muslim who thinks he has seen too many iraqis being abused by US soldiers, or who thinks that the US shouldn't be in muslim land.

this isn't something that the bush admin. seems to know. they think america's face is bush and condelezza rice. these are the faces of america's government... the real face of america are the american tourists, and the american soldiers, as well as the american movies and american music videos.


sure, sometimes there are tourists who know the local culture and are observant, and when soldiers give aid, like in the tsunami relief, they are generally met with gratitude.

but there are arrogant tourists, there are abusive soldiers, american movies and music videos make all americans look like 1920s gangsters or 2000s gangbangers. (hip-hop/ rap)

years later, in history books, will this be the era or hiphop diplomacy?

forigners are probably more likely to watch the latest 50 cent music video about raping women or something than to watch bush's state of the union adress.

and this will have resounding consequences.

[EddieV]

This is something I have to talk to my girlfriend about, she's Muslim, I want to hear her side of the story.

[ComradeRed]

I was having a discussion with my uncle and my father about the current situation with terrorism and the Middle East. During the discussion, I kept emphasizing that the majority of Muslims are good people and probably don't support terrorists and their actions. But then they said that they're all keeping quiet, and that by doing that, they're indirectly supporting it. By ignoring it, it's going to continue.

Then, they went on to say that in order for the terrorists to commit these acts, they need money for weapons and other equipment. Who provides it? Right after 9/11, millions of Muslims across the US were caught having connections to al-Qaeda, and many of them are in prison for it.

So why aren't "good Muslims" speaking out? Is it because of fear, or are they quietly supporting it?

Here's why: No one gives a crap.

Just like for most political issues, you have your extremists on either side, and then you have your moderates. They want to end terrorism in the sense that I want a private jet... it would be a great thing, sure, but I'm not going to go out of my way to get it. And why should they? What would you think of a Muslim standing in front of your town hall denouncing terrorism?

[ComradeRed]

I am against terrorism.

I'm glad we cleared that one up.

[*kryogenix*]

Here's why: No one gives a crap.

Just like for most political issues, you have your extremists on either side, and then you have your moderates. They want to end terrorism in the sense that I want a private jet... it would be a great thing, sure, but I'm not going to go out of my way to get it. And why should they? What would you think of a Muslim standing in front of your town hall denouncing terrorism?

As American citizens, they should care.

[ComradeRed]

It's a collective action problem. The cost to you of doing something far exceeds the benefit to society of doing it (in fact, society might hate you for it... don't we think people like Michael Moore are annoying?)

Most people have political ideas--but they want to see them implemented in the sense that they want a Lexus--it would be nice, but not worth the cost of doing it.

[d00kie]

good muslims are speaking out people just decide to listen to all the bullshit people say muslims are making books organizations and efforts to reach out to people but they are being discriminated by uneducated people who decide what a muslim is for themself ISLAM means peace any scripture if interperated improperly can seem to promote violence but if read in actual context u would see the similarities of all religions including islam because every religion has the same essence of a superior being and people are try to speak out but the government is surpressing them by saying bullshit and saying stuff that isnt even true about muslims they arent violent they dont do drugs and dont drink alcohol it is part of their ethics that is what they are taught and people who abuse their religion as their cover up destroy its name and arent true believers people seem to want to hate because others are there are over 70 kinds of muslims but u only hear of one kind the suni's and they are one of many just like baptisits are one of many but the overall purpose of the religion and belief of the religion is the same and people who distort that distort GOD'S message nothing more and nothing less...

[*kryogenix*]

First of all, learn to use punctuation.

good muslims are speaking out people just decide to listen to all the bullshit people say muslims are making books organizations and efforts to reach out to people but they are being discriminated by uneducated people who decide what a muslim is for themself

Apparently, the minority is speaking louder than the majority right now.

ISLAM means peace

I thought Islam meant submission...

any scripture if interperated improperly can seem to promote violence

Really?

We know that Muhammad was a caravan raider. There are suras in the koran that seem to promote violence.

but if read in actual context u would see the similarities of all religions including islam because every religion has the same essence of a superior being and people are try to speak out but the government is surpressing them by saying bullshit and saying stuff that isnt even true about muslims they arent violent they dont do drugs and dont drink alcohol

Can you substantiate this accusation?

it is part of their ethics that is what they are taught and people who abuse their religion as their cover up destroy its name and arent true believers people seem to want to hate because others are there are over 70 kinds of muslims but u only hear of one kind the suni's and they are one of many just like baptisits are one of many but the overall purpose of the religion and belief of the religion is the same and people who distort that distort GOD'S message nothing more and nothing less...

So why does Islam try to conquer other religions?

[edit]

Talk about coincidence. Hours after I made this post, look at what the featured article of Wikipedia is.

[d00kie]

My bad Salam means peace, which is part of the religion . Muhammed was not a caravan raider, he was married to a rich traider named katijah who owned a caravan. He lead his followers away when the Arabs attacked and had no choice but to fight. Also what religion has not faught a battle? By the way religious battles are in almost every religion. Muslims promote non violence. Hazrat Ali met the man that was going to kill him and Muhammed told him this. Ali said that if that is what GOD wants than he shall kill me. He did not once think of killing the man to save his life. The man later murdered Hazrat Ali by stabbing him in the heart. Muhammed believed in peace and did nothing to force others to convert. Many people did acts of violence against him but he never took revenge on those. The muslims take their religion seriously and if anyone abuses it they follow up by non violent demonstrations rather than outraged fights.

[*kryogenix*]

My bad Salam means peace, which is part of the religion . Muhammed was not a caravan raider, he was married to a rich traider named katijah who owned a caravan.

See the wikipedia article.

Muhammad turned to raiding caravans bound for Mecca. Caravan raiding (al-ghazw) was an old Arabian tradition; Muslims justified the raids by Meccan's confiscation of all their property left at Mecca and the state of war deemed to exist between the Meccans and the Muslims. Secular scholars add this was also a matter of survival for the Muslims. They owned no land in Medina and if they did not raid, they would have to live on charity and whatever wage labor they could find, both of which were in short supply in the small oasis.

In March of 624, Muhammad led some 300 warriors in a raid on a Meccan merchant caravan. The Meccans successfully defended the caravan and then decided to teach the Medinans a lesson. They sent a small army against Medina. On March 15, 624 near a place called Badr, the Meccans and the Muslims clashed. Though outnumbered more than 3 times (1000 to 300) in the battle, the Muslims met with success, killing at least forty-five Meccans and taking seventy prisoners for ransom; only fourteen Muslims died. This marked the real beginning of Muslim military achievement.

He lead his followers away when the Arabs attacked and had no choice but to fight. Also what religion has not faught a battle? By the way religious battles are in almost every religion. Muslims promote non violence. Hazrat Ali met the man that was going to kill him and Muhammed told him this. Ali said that if that is what GOD wants than he shall kill me. He did not once think of killing the man to save his life. The man later murdered Hazrat Ali by stabbing him in the heart. Muhammed believed in peace and did nothing to force others to convert. Many people did acts of violence against him but he never took revenge on those. The muslims take their religion seriously and if anyone abuses it they follow up by non violent demonstrations rather than outraged fights.

It's not just the matter of the Muslims acting violent, it's the fact that Muslim leaders aren't getting enough publicity in condemning these attacks. Either they're not making strong condemnations, or the media isn't covering them as much.

But if the media isn't covering them, why aren't they complaining?

[d00kie]

im sorry i took what u said a little offensively my bad um well u see the shia's have a spiritual leader called the Imam and he has won many humanitarian awards and has helped many countries around the world including America. In fact he helped in Katrina. See i think the thing is that Muslims try to speak out and work to make the world a better place quitely.

[Spirited Away]

Islam itself is not violent, Islamic fundamentalism is, and Islamic fundamentalism combined with extermist Arabs... well, you all know well the consequence. Interpretation of the holy text, depending on political ideals or the lack thereof and culture, is the main cleavage.

Islam "[tries] to conquer" other religions as much as Christianity tried, and is still trying, to conquer. These two religions' history of intolerance and tolerance is almost similar. Muslims practice belief in human justice, love and freedom as much as Christianity and Judaism. Again, we mustn't confused them with fundamentalists or else, to be fair, we'd have to mix Christians with radical Christians.

The question of why Muslims aren't speaking out enough reminds me of something and the point is to compare the questions of the why's. After 9/11, there was a wave of violence against Muslims and Arabs throughout the US. President Bush made a point that these attacks are inhumane. Of course, many Americans find these attacks to be wrongful as well, but why didn't they speak out enough?

For the record, I don't know how much is "enough" or how much a few of you expect these Muslims to speak out, but I do agree that they do need to sound their intolerance of extremist Islam a little louder. In my opinion, ONLY THE MEDIA can aid them in this. And then the question is, why don't they complain about the media not broadcasting enough. My answer: how loudly do they need to complain about the media to get coverage?

[*kryogenix*]

Islam itself is not violent, Islamic fundamentalism is, and Islamic fundamentalism combined with extermist Arabs... well, you all know well the consequence. Interpretation of the holy text, depending on political ideals or the lack thereof and culture, is the main cleavage.

I'd like to believe this, but at the moment, I'm not sure.

Islam "[tries] to conquer" other religions as much as Christianity tried, and is still trying, to conquer. These two religions' history of intolerance and tolerance is almost similar. Muslims practice belief in human justice, love and freedom as much as Christianity and Judaism. Again, we mustn't confused them with fundamentalists or else, to be fair, we'd have to mix Christians with radical Christians.

Remember, Islam started out with nothing. They had to conquer Mecca to get started. Christianity was an underground group for the most part until the Roman Empire embraced it.

Maybe you are referring to the crusades as evidence of Christian conquering. I don't agree with killing in the name of God, but to say that the Christians were barbaric attackers is misleading.

Outside of the crusades, how much of Christian conquering was religiously motivated rather than nationalistically motivated?

The question of why Muslims aren't speaking out enough reminds me of something and the point is to compare the questions of the why's. After 9/11, there was a wave of violence against Muslims and Arabs throughout the US. President Bush made a point that these attacks are inhumane. Of course, many Americans find these attacks to be wrongful as well, but why didn't they speak out enough?

People did speak out. If I remember correctly, Rudy came on the TV and addressed the issue and told people not to beat up random arab people on the street.

For the record, I don't know how much is "enough" or how much a few of you expect these Muslims to speak out, but I do agree that they do need to sound their intolerance of extremist Islam a little louder. In my opinion, ONLY THE MEDIA can aid them in this. And then the question is, why don't they complain about the media not broadcasting enough. My answer: how loudly do they need to complain about the media to get coverage?

I would think that Al Jazeera would want to help the peaceful Muslims get their voice heard, but I haven't heard anything about them yet. In fact, some of what Al Jazeera runs is what sparks violence in the first place.

How come Muslims can gather millions to protest against Israel, but they can't protest the violence on part of fellow Muslims?

Not only this, but why aren't peaceful Muslims reaching out to the violent ones and telling them they are interpreting the Quran incorrectly?

[Spirited Away]

1. I'd like to believe this, but at the moment, I'm not sure.
Remember, Islam started out with nothing.
2. They had to conquer Mecca to get started. Christianity was an underground group for the most part until the Roman Empire embraced it.

3. Maybe you are referring to the crusades as evidence of Christian conquering. I don't agree with killing in the name of God, but to say that the Christians were barbaric attackers is misleading.

4. Outside of the crusades, how much of Christian conquering was religiously motivated rather than nationalistically motivated?

5. People did speak out. If I remember correctly, Rudy came on the TV and addressed the issue and told people not to beat up random arab people on the street.
I would think that Al Jazeera would want to help the peaceful Muslims get their voice heard, but I haven't heard anything about them yet. In fact, some of what Al Jazeera runs is what sparks violence in the first place.

6. How come Muslims can gather millions to protest against Israel, but they can't protest the violence on part of fellow Muslims?

7. Not only this, but why aren't peaceful Muslims reaching out to the violent ones and telling them they are interpreting the Quran incorrectly?

1. What is there to not believe? Do you consider all Muslims violent or condone the kind of violence terrorists have subjected the world to?

2. One religion, with the advantage of a democratic society, won majority by conquering politics and the other, in a society with no semblence to democracy, by conquering Mecca. Two distinct societies, two distinct strategies that reflected their political environment (or lack of one). When in Kansas, do as Kansians do (or something like that).

3. You don't think the Crusades was barbaric? Well, here's another Christian's take on the Crusades. According to that, the words "evil" and "horrors" were more accurate. Of course to be fair, there were horrors committed on both sides, but one side was quite persistent and came back for more. Come on, you know which one.

4. I honestly don't know but I'm going to attempt a smart-mouth answer. For the most part, I'm sure Christian conquests are religiously motivated, but I'm also sure that political motivation had, perhaps still has, something to do with it. As for nationalistically motivated, the Arab culture had a lot to do with it. I've seen the phrases "Arab conquest of the Middle East" and "Islam conquest of the Middle East" being used interchangebly (depending on the source, of course) and that confuses me because again, being Arab had a lot to do with what you see as religious conquest motivated by nationalism.

Nationalist conquerors, namely the Umayyads, emphasized Arab authority among Muslims. You can read some background here and here. The point being that the culture of nationalism may have served as the motivation in their conquests more so than Islam was because there was a period in which rulers weren't so interested in the religion itself. "The empire built from these conquests was Arab rather than Islamic" [source], and so we mustn't think that all conquest in the name of Islam had been for national gains, whatnot.
I hope this softens your view a bit.

5. And as I've said before, Muslims spoke out, too, in general. But you know what, they have no "Rudy" to speak out for them. I will quote loosely, as my memory isn't so great (burned out, you understand), from an opinion piece for the Houston Chronicle, dated February (forgot date, don't sue) 2006, that "Muslims have no Martin Luther King, nor a Mahatma Ghandi to speak out for [them]". The writer continues that this "Dr. King" of the Muslims will have to know sacrifice--I think he/she means here a violent death or certain dangers, and as he must know no compromise--in the sense of not giving up civil liberties. And because they don't have a "Rudy" or a "Dr. King", the best we're going to get is scattered voices, until a "Rudy" or "Dr. King" unites and strenghtens them.
I'm a little curious as to why you haven't heard from your local Muslims because the article I read was the third of which I've read in our town's Chronicle. I'm sure there are more because the three articles were from the only three newspapers I picked up thus far this year.

6&7. Both good questions, but here's another attempt at a smart/dumb-mouth answer because I don't want to admit that I don't know. The next time I see an infamous serial killer on the verge of killing crashing his plane in a woman in an alley, I'll walk up to him and present my moral ideals. I hope you, and others, see the comparison.


Okay, alright, I'm not going to lie, I don't know much about Islam aside that there are different groups who claim to represent it. I've seen violent Muslims on TV and then my one of my best friends since 8th grade is a Muslim. I'm on good terms with her parents, too, and one of them's a Muslim (obviously) from Jordan. Her Dad hasn't flown a plane into my living room yet for being a heathen and even invites me over for Mom's special Thanksgiving dinner. If you're confused, her Mom's a Catholic who still goes to Church every week. I digress. Yes, I don't know much about it, but I'm not going to judge Islam as a whole based the actions of the violent-prone, just like I'm not going to judge Christianity as a whole based the words of the idiotic-few.

Kay, I've said enough. Until next time.

This post has been edited by Spirited Away: Mar 31 2006, 03:10 PM