Guns, who should be able to own them? Options

[*NatiMarie*]

We all know that guns can cause harm, they're everywhere darnit!

Primarily, who can own them? Who shouldn't own them?

[Spirited Away]

i want one...

but i would get rid of it once i have kids.

[tkproduce]

I think the United States made a mistake in legalising it in the first place when the country was originally set up. But I guess we can't really go back in time.

[RiddleMeWonders]

Hell, I own a gun. I don't know, this subject is very hard for me to handle... I'm not going into why. Course, I live in a town called Deweyville so...... *Shrugs* We go hunting all the time. There have been some accidental deaths by guns.. but no many shootings. I don't know where we should draw the line.

[waccoon]

i say no, because then shootings would get out of control. you see the kids who think they're all gangsterr and tough, they'll want a gun so they can protect themselves.

[ComradeRed]

We all know that guns can cause harm, they're everywhere darnit!

Primarily, who can own them? Who shouldn't own them?

Anyone without a violent criminal record should be able to own them.

A well-armed citizenry is the last resort of protecting the law from the government. That's why we have the Second Amendment. As events in Fallujah prove, a militia of ordinary people can still defeat a modern military machine.


TKProduce, we legalized guns when the country was first set up because the very reason we were an free and independent country BECAUSE the average citizen on the street had guns. We weren't about to revert to another British-style tyranny.

Gun Control was a MAJOR issue during the revolutionary war:

"They tell us, sir, that we are weak, unable to cope with so formidable an adversary. But when shall we be stronger? Will it be the next week? Or will it be the next year? Will it be when we are totally disarmed and there shall be a British guard stationed behind every door?"
--Patrick Henry, urging Virginia to declare its independence from Great Britain

[FlyingFries]

I think the United States made a mistake in legalising it in the first place when the country was originally set up. But I guess we can't really go back in time.

it wuz legalized cuz there were no police bak then to help the pple......they kinda had to protect them selves

[ComradeRed]

it wuz legalized cuz there were no police bak then to help the pple......they kinda had to protect them selves

There WERE police in the cities.

The people in the country were so spread out that there was little to no risk of crime.

It is clear, if you read what the FOunding Fathers wrote, that the Second Amendment was designed to give people the means to protect themselves from the GOVERNMENT.

The police are PART of the GOVERNMENT. If only the police have guns, what will ordinary people do when the police become the instrument of oppression?

That is precisely what the Founding Fathers had in mind when they created the Second Amendment, and they also created the militia to protect us from the Army.

In brief,
The government protects us from foreign countries.
The law protects us from the government.
The right to bear arms protects the law from the government.

[rivendell]

I think the United States made a mistake in legalising it in the first place when the country was originally set up. But I guess we can't really go back in time.

The guns of the revolutionary war were not the type of guns we see today! A gun was in some cases the difference between surviving and dying back then.

As for today, I look at it from the Chris Rock angle - let everyone who wants one have guns, just make bullets like $10,000 each.

[*kryogenix*]

In brief,
The government protects us from foreign countries.
The law protects us from the government.
The right to bear arms protects the law from the government.

Yes, checks and balances.

  i say no, because then shootings would get out of control. you see the kids who think they're all gangsterr and tough, they'll want a gun so they can protect themselves.

so why ruin it for the responsible people?

[tkproduce]

So how many people in America have used guns in the appropriate manner? Self defense from another person with a gun? Surely that person wouldn't have a gun in the first place if they were banned.

The police are PART of the GOVERNMENT. If only the police have guns, what will ordinary people do when the police become the instrument of oppression?

I kind of doubt that ordinary people with handguns would be able to supress the government if they did turn against their people.

I understand your argument of WHY guns are legalised in America because it's a "free" country and all that, but does the preparation for the very slight chance that the government might turn the police against their own people outweigh all the crimes that occur because of guns?

[ComradeRed]

So how many people in America have used guns in the appropriate manner?  Self defense from another person with a gun?  Surely that person wouldn't have a gun in the first place if they were banned.

Drugs are banned. Are you saying no one has drugs?

I kind of doubt that ordinary people with handguns would be able to supress the government if they did turn against their people.

It's happenign right now. Look at Fallujah.

And even if they can't stop the government, they'd at least make the government think twice about doing things.

You also NEVER, EVER want to underestimate what citizen-body is capable of doing. We have 300 million people here. If only ONE in TEN own just ordinary handguns, that is easily the most powerful fighting force in teh world.

I understand your argument of WHY guns are legalised in America because it's a "free" country and all that, but does the preparation for the very slight chance that the government might turn the police against their own people outweigh all the crimes that occur because of guns?

People killed by government in the last 100 years: 200 MILLION.
People killed by criminals, terrorists, etc., during that same time: 1.5 MILLION.

It's not a hard choice.

The chance that the government will turn against the people is NOT slight. It's happening today. We're paying taxes DOZENS of times higher than the taxes paid by the Colonials who revolted against the British. Government use of things like the US PATRIOT Act, Selective Service, etc., would not have been tolerated short of violence in an earlier age.

People are sissies now. That's why the government is so big. Back during the Civil War, when the government tried to draft people, they took to the streets in New York and Chicago and got the government to severly limit the draft. Post-Revolution, Shays' and Whiskey Rebellions, though they failed, ensured the election of a Republican government by 1800 that promoted liberty much better than their Federalist predecessors (even the Federalist tax rates were VERY modest by today's standards -- amounting to only about 6% of the average American's income, compared to 57% today).

[tkproduce]

People are sissies now.

Is that also the reason why people buy guns?

[EmeraldKnight]

Hm.. I dont realli have too much of an issue on the whole gun control thing.. i mean... if they're just handguns and have safeties on them so kids dont play with them, i dont realli see the problem.. as long as we dont sell automatic rifles or something..

[jaeman]

Hey! I own a gun. That is if you count paintball guns, and an air rifle...

[ComradeRed]

Is that also the reason why people buy guns?

Gun ownership rates in America (not guns per person, I mean number of people who own guns -- about 50%) doesn't nearly compare to what it was in the 1700s.

[onenonly101]

Anyone without a violent criminal record should be able to own them.

Those people became violent criminals because they had guns.

I mean banning guns isn't going to make people stop getting killed, maybe it will lower the number, but people will just find other ways. There will be more people selling illegal guns, as they now do with drugs. There is nothing wrong with having a gun, there is just something wrong with some of the people who have guns.

[ComradeRed]

Those people became violent criminals because they had guns.

I mean banning guns isn't going to make people stop getting killed, maybe it will lower the number, but people will just find other ways. There will be more people selling illegal guns, as they now do with drugs. There is nothing wrong with having a gun, there is just something wrong with some of the people who have guns.

In America, people are presumed innocent until proven guilty. We don't punish people for something they MIGHT do down the line.

[WildGriffin]

In America, people are presumed innocent until proven guilty. We don't punish people for something they MIGHT do down the line.

Gotta love the patriot act
...wait, whoops.

[tkproduce]

Actually, why are we just talking about America? Shouldn't we be debating whether gun ownership should be permitted in every country?

[ComradeRed]

Actually, why are we just talking about America? Shouldn't we be debating whether gun ownership should be permitted in every country?

My arguments aren't really America-spefici, though they center on America.

Guns are needed to keep a check on oppressive government. This is especailly true in third world countries where the governments are oppressive and teh technology is simple.

[initial-seven]

of course.......hehehehe

[*kryogenix*]

My arguments aren't really America-spefici, though they center on America.

Guns are needed to keep a check on oppressive government. This is especailly true in third world countries where the governments are oppressive and teh technology is simple.

i believe tkproduce was talking about WildGriffin's reference to the Patriot Act

i agree with the second part. think Haiti

[EmeraldKnight]

I dont think anybody should own them, save law enforcement and the military.. i mean.. they sell guns for self defense, but more often then not, they're not used for self defense and they get abused

I mean banning guns isn't going to make people stop getting killed, maybe it will lower the number, but people will just find other ways. There will be more people selling illegal guns, as they now do with drugs. There is nothing wrong with having a gun, there is just something wrong with some of the people who have guns.

Maybe it will lower the number, isnt less ppl killed better than more ppl killed?

And you're right, there is nothing wrong with having a gun, but like i stated above and you stated before, "there is just something wrong with some of the ppl who have guns" guns are a extremely potent weapon and a hazard to all that carry them, and I'm willing to bet that out of the ppl that bought guns for self defense (why else would you need a gun?), more of their guns get used for other purposes rather than for self defense

[RiddleMeWonders]

Okay, this thought has been pending inside me and finally I'm just going to utter it.
It may have been suggested already though. I don't know.

To me, the problem isn't people owning guns.
I think that if you are going to own any weapon, you should take an "awareness class"
Become trained, and have your motives and personality anylzed.
It doesnt matter if you've never had a criminal record. If you're sanity is questionable, if you are an unstable person you shouldnt be allowed to own a gun.