know your friends well, but your enemies better, why the united states will fall Options

[*kryogenix*]

Aren't Chinese products inferior in quality? Why would American manufacturers want to make Chinese products when their products are better?

[sadolakced acid]

currently inferior in quality, sure. but they'll overtake us eventually.

[stryker76]

I havent yet read everything that everyone has posted yet but i do have one thing to add as i eat my Cookies and Milk

1. Americans do not learn about other cultures because they choose not to. Once many kids hit high school that have a plan on what they want to do after school. although it may change from time to time it doesnt usually involve what they have to do if they have a meeting with a business many from China, India, or any other country. The little details are not all that important at that time in there life. But those that end up goin in to fields where they must meet with people from a different culture often do some homework before goin to these meetings as to no upset someone. It is what business men do. If they do things right that is.

2. The one thing that you are looking at wrongly is that fact is yeah there is alot we dont kno from countries like China becuase for so long there communist government maintained a "wall" in way keeping other cultures out of there countries and there culture from gettin out. Every culture that can be studied into High schools in america have usually had open boarders for at least the last 100 years or longer. With the exception of Latin or Roman culture which is no longer a living culture but an ancient one that was the basis for many of the western languages...as well as all the medicial fields.

Btw these cookies are great!!!

But Moving on....

3. Our government knows alot of information and is always developing new stuff that we would not have a problem with other countries for decades. We have the resourse that those countries do not have. As well as the population that is not as large as one like Chinas wo maintain. That gives us as a country a little bit more funds to play around with i guess you can say. For example; The F-117A Stealth Bomber was in use for 15 years before the American Public knew about it. Now imagine that technology that is presently in use know that we currently do not have public knowledge on.

What you do not take into account about american supremecy is the fact that there is tonz of stuff that we dont have any knowlege on that goes on that keeps us on top. There are things that go on behind the scenes with other countries that cant be taught in schools that you cant be taught about and that you cant prepare for that keep america where it is. But yes eventually we will fall as the major power in the world. But i dont think it will be because of another country. It will be internally. We will casue you selves to fall as a world power if things at home do not change.

Oh and sorry for the double post but...

Taiwan is presently the fastest growing Economic power in there world.


Btw Sam's Club Cookies suck

[*kryogenix*]

currently inferior in quality, sure.  but they'll overtake us eventually.

How do you know this?

Many a Chinese company uses hit and run tactics. This is pretty much their MO:

1. Start company that competes with an American company.
2. Make an inferior but cheaper product. Break patent/copyright laws if necessary.
3. Profit!
4. Shut down company before lawsuits.
5. Rinse, lather and repeat.

Pretty much everything in China (including their military!) is a cheap imitation of another product. I wouldn't be surprised if Chinese companies didn't have R&D departments!

[stryker76]

How do you know this?

Many a Chinese company uses hit and run tactics. This is pretty much their MO:

1. Start company that competes with an American company.
2. Make an inferior but cheaper product. Break patent/copyright laws if necessary.
3. Profit!
4. Shut down company before lawsuits.
5. Rinse, lather and repeat.

Pretty much everything in China (including their military!) is a cheap imitation of another product. I wouldn't be surprised if Chinese companies didn't have R&D departments!

I agree completely. Other then that fact that China's Military is recycled Russian Army junk. Much of there weaponry was developed by the russians and then bought. There is no orginial Military technology that comes out of China or Russian presently ne more.

That i Kno of.....

[*kryogenix*]

I agree completely. Other then that fact that China's Military is recycled Russian Army junk. Much of there weaponry was developed by the russians and then bought. There is no orginial Military technology that comes out of China or Russian presently ne more.

That i Kno of.....

Well, China has a modified AK-47 that's in bullpup configuration. It was made by the Chinese, but its heart and soul is still the AK-47. Also China has made a few tanks based off of Soviet designs, and they're trying to copy the ARENA system.

Russia simply has no money to maintain, let alone develop, weapons. They had to sell one of their aircraft carriers to China, interestingly enough.

[sadolakced acid]

and there is the unsettling trend of chinese scholars coming to america, gettign an american education, and returning to china.

they're gaining capabilities fast.

don't judge a country by what it's done. because most likely, it's moved on.

[stryker76]

don't judge a country by what it's done.  because most likely, it's moved on.

If you cant judge a country by what they have done before then what can you base them on? What a country does is what everyone bases them on. The only thing that China presently has goin for them is that they are no longer a strict Communist state but have been slowly moving to a Socialist/Democractic type government with a lil less corruption...I think i dont study up on China becuase i have to need for it.

[sadolakced acid]

If you cant judge a country by what they have done before then what can you base them on? What a country does is what everyone bases them on. The only thing that China presently has goin for them is that they are no longer a strict Communist state but have been slowly moving to a Socialist/Democractic type government with a lil less corruption...I think i dont study up on China becuase i have to need for it.

you think you have no need for it because you've not done it.

the chinese are the third nation to put a man in space independently.

that puts the ahead of a lot of countries, like say britian.

it also means they have a weapons platform cabable of striking anywhere in the world.

and it also means they have the funds to support such a program. They're not third world anymore.

you judge a country by where it's going.

and china is going up.

[*mipadi*]

America could probably benefit more from improving its educational system, especially its secondary educational system, more than simply focusing on China. China is a focus for post-secondary education, for students—people—who have a genuine interest in it. Certainly this means more exposure to eastern cultures would be beneficial prior to college, but part of America's impending erosion in dominance is due to its educational system, especially public high schools, which are focused on turning out students who can pass a standardized test, and not on students who can really think and learn. There's a lot of pressure on teachers to "leave no child behind" and simply pass them without making the students really learn. I think the education system in general should be a focus, not just Chinese studies.

Your focus is on numbers. We don't need a lot of people to study China, just some truly talented and dedicated individuals.

[stryker76]

America could probably benefit more from improving its educational system, especially its secondary educational system, more than simply focusing on China. China is a focus for post-secondary education, for students—people—who have a genuine interest in it. Certainly this means more exposure to eastern cultures would be beneficial prior to college, but part of America's impending erosion in dominance is due to its educational system, especially public high schools, which are focused on turning out students who can pass a standardized test, and not on students who can really think and learn. There's a lot of pressure on teachers to "leave no child behind" and simply pass them without making the students really learn. I think the education system in general should be a focus, not just Chinese studies.

Your focus is on numbers. We don't need a lot of people to study China, just some truly talented and dedicated individuals.

I agree totally. Standardize testing is a terrible way to test whether or not you know your stuff.

Also i have to say. Yeah China has put ppl in space...but its not that hard to put someone or something in space. All it takes is a little bit of knowledge in Physics and in Chemistry. I could if i wanted i had hmmmm about 10k put my dog in space. All it takes is some remote control components, Nitrous Oxide(Oxidizer), a homemade fuel which im not posting becuase i dont want ppl tryin it out, and some plumbing fixtures. Its not that difficult.

Also the only reason China has began to move in a positive direction is because they have opened there boarders again. Think back to around the time of the Vietnam War and you could not freely gettin into China. there Boarders where closed. Like the former USSR. Soo how can you expect sooo many people to be interested in something that for sooo long we have been taught isnt good becuase they are or were communist. It wasnt till my freshmen tear in high school that i learned ne thing on China. Its not totally Americas fault that we dont know ne thing on China when the possiblity of collecting data and information first hand has just resently in the past 40-50 years presented its self possible. If China for so long wasnt soo ethnocentric and keep its boarders open more people would most likely have more knowledge on there culture.

[sadolakced acid]

I agree totally. Standardize testing is a terrible way to test whether or not you know your stuff.

Also i have to say. Yeah China has put ppl in space...but its not that hard to put someone or something in space. All it takes is a little bit of knowledge in Physics and in Chemistry. I could if i wanted i had hmmmm about 10k put my dog in space. All it takes is some remote control components, Nitrous Oxide(Oxidizer), a homemade fuel which im not posting becuase i dont want ppl tryin it out, and some plumbing fixtures. Its not that difficult.

you're extrapolating information from the wrong areas. the mythbusters made the equivalent of a cruise missile. it could have never gotten to space.

even space ship one hasn't truely gotten to space.

as of now, the only way to reach space and establish orbit is with complicated and expensive liquid fuel rockets. Only three countries have put people in space.

and then you need precise control on your velocity, and you need life support systems, etc.

10k can't put your dog in space, even if it were dead.

Also the only reason China has began to move in a positive direction is because they have opened there boarders again. Think back to around the time of the Vietnam War and you could not freely gettin into China. there Boarders where closed. Like the former USSR. Soo how can you expect sooo many people to be interested in something that for sooo long we have been taught isnt good becuase they are or were communist. It wasnt till my freshmen tear in high school that i learned ne thing on China. Its not totally Americas fault that we dont know ne thing on China when the possiblity of collecting data and information first hand has just resently in the past 40-50 years presented its self possible. If China for so long wasnt soo ethnocentric and keep its boarders open more people would most likely have more knowledge on there culture.

because 40-50 years is a really short time to learn things.

and when has china closed it's borders compeltely and sucessfully?

[*kryogenix*]

Your focus is on numbers. We don't need a lot of people to study China, just some truly talented and dedicated individuals.

Good point. A few talented and dedicated individuals is all we need. It's diminishing marginal utility after that.

[stryker76]

Yeah it is expensive to make rocket fuels but easy if you can get the materials. Also, No spaceship One is a way to get people into space and back with the same methods of an Airplane. It doesnt need to be done that was it could be done other ways. The reason it didnt go ne further then the outer atmosphere is because if it went too fast its wings wouldnt have been able to with stand the force and possibly caused the craft more difficulty to maintain control.

NASA doenst use nething to control there velocity leaving the earths atmosphere. The use to Solid rocket boosts which you can not control there velocity other then packing less fuel into its cylindars. the only controlled velocity is in orbit so that its doesnt fall to earth at the wrong angle, or go controllably out into space.

Early rockets had only a fuseloge(sp) and 3-4 fins on the lower ends to maintain stability. With the correct launch angle and the right amount of propellent its wouldnt be to extremly difficult to do. As for life support systems.....i never said what i sent into space would live....but it wouldnt take much more then a pressure suit and some well made SCUB gear.....So over all maybe it would take about 200k....

If you look at the Rockets that goin into space now you have to remember most of the instumentation on them is for experiments and because the crafts are made to be reusable. But to make a one time use craft that has not experimentation equipment then it wouldnt be to hard. It would wiegh less and take less to lift and less or move faster depending on how you make it.

I do acctually kno what im takin about...i live about 45 mins for Kennedy Space center. I kno ppl that are NASA payload specialist. I make model rockets for a hobby and i excelled in Chemistry in school. I made homemade rocket fuel for a final Project in my Chemistry class and launched a small rocket 5 miles to the other side of town with only 20 yards of in accuracy.

I kno rockets. Im good with rockets and such.

[*kryogenix*]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/clic...ine/4586914.stm

Just an article on China.

[sadolakced acid]

if it's so easy, why have only 3 countries done it?

sure, solid rockets are quite easy. liquid rockets- the type required for a space launch, are quite complex.

solid rockets can only be used as jettisonable external boosters.

[medic]

americans don't know thier enemies.

but our enemies know us all too well.

therefore, we will fall, in the next 50 years.
at least, from power.

the government will fall not long after that.

Well, in the next 50 years, well see about that.

Now remember, the world was going to end from Y2K back in the day...

Well, China has a modified AK-47 that's in bullpup configuration. It was made by the Chinese, but its heart and soul is still the AK-47. Also China has made a few tanks based off of Soviet designs, and they're trying to copy the ARENA system.

Russia simply has no money to maintain, let alone develop, weapons. They had to sell one of their aircraft carriers to China, interestingly enough.

The AK-47 was made by the Russian, and was sold to China during the fall of the Soviet Union. Along with half of there armor and jets. Chinas main jet is the MIG, once again a Russian built war machine. Yes, they sold one of there aircraft carriers to China. But why can't China produce there own aircraft carriers? You also have to take into fact that China is Communist, the ideals of communism is a stock pile of power for a mass war. I dought that is what China has in mind, they are leaning towards Democracy now-a-days. Give it a few years, and China will be back to its old ways. China, is a super power, but so is the US, Brittan, Canada, and Russia. The Third largest military is Russia, during the cold war, Russia had 4x the amount of long range nuqs that the US had. During the fall of the USSR, they "disappeared". Now, remember when China first became a Communist country, it was a hell hole. The Russian economy is growing at nearly eight percent, adjusted for inflation. With a rising middle class, retail sales have been growing about 20 percent a year. When you are in Russia, the average family car is a Mercedes. It is not because of the so called “Russian Mob” now a days, its because companies have started to invest billions into the Russia Economy.

And the Russian Treasury has bounced back from the ruble crisis of 1998.A critical difference in economy today is the Russian central bank. It has foreign currency reserves of almost $900.9 billion. Money is flowing into the Russian stock market. Give it time, soon Russia will once again, be the super power it once was.

Russian oil companies are increasing production, spurred by high oil prices on world markets. In doing this, the companies curtail their investments in exploration of new deposits and overall development of their business. Equipment producers already say that a number of orders for new equipment have decreased greatly.

Russian daily Izvestia writes that in 2003 the total net income of Russian oil companies amounted to $25 billion, while total investments in business development were only $7 billion. In the first months of 2004 oil production grew by 10.7 percent compared to the same period of last year. Such a notable increase is attributed to high prices that rule world oil markets.

Russia is the only country which exports oil and increases its production along with increase in demand. This information was contained in the monthly report prepared by experts of International Energy Agency. According to the Agency’s figures over the first fourth months of 2004 overall production of oil in Russia increased by almost 30 percent. At the same time other countries which export oil, notably members of OPEC, are reducing the production.

The dangers of uncontrolled production increases which can lead to rapid “depletion of deposits” were pointed out today by Simon Vainstock, CEO of state-owned pipeline monopoly Transneft. Vainstock declared that Transneft is ready to become “an instrument” that would help limit the export of oil. In the opinion of Transneft official the government should control the development of natural resources’ deposits with the help of licensing agreements because improper usage will have a major adverse effect on Russia’s future.

Yah, I kind of wen't off subject a little bit...

[*kryogenix*]

if it's so easy, why have only 3 countries done it?

sure, solid rockets are quite easy.  liquid rockets- the type required for a space launch, are quite complex.

solid rockets can only be used as jettisonable external boosters.

3 countries have gotten a man into space. But more have gotten a rocket into space. The EU has the Ariane project and Japan has the MLV.

Not to mention the private groups (including students!) that have gotten rockets.

The problem is getting a man inside and bringing him back alive.

The AK-47 was made by the Russian, and was sold to China during the fall of the Soviet Union. Along with half of there armor and jets. Chinas main jet is the MIG, once again a Russian built war machine. Yes, they sold one of there aircraft carriers to China. But why can't China produce there own aircraft carriers? You also have to take into fact that China is Communist, the ideals of communism is a stock pile of power for a mass war. I dought that is what China has in mind, they are leaning towards Democracy now-a-days. Give it a few years, and China will be back to its old ways. China, is a super power, but so is the US, Brittan, Canada, and Russia. The Third largest military is Russia, during the cold war, Russia had 4x the amount of long range nuqs that the US had. During the fall of the USSR, they "disappeared". Now, remember when China first became a Communist country, it was a hell hole. The Russian economy is growing at nearly eight percent, adjusted for inflation. With a rising middle class, retail sales have been growing about 20 percent a year. When you are in Russia, the average family car is a Mercedes. It is not because of the so called “Russian Mob” now a days, its because companies have started to invest billions into the Russia Economy.

I don't think the Russians sold the production rights of the AK-47 to China. China is also going to use the Jian-10, a domestically developed fighter (although they use Russian and Israeli technology onboard). China bought the aircraft carrier because they're studying the hull of the carrier. They're probably reverse engineering everything so that they can make their own.

China also doesn't seem to be leaning towards democracy nowadays, they're leaning towards a more free-market economy.

[sadolakced acid]

3 countries have gotten a man into space. But more have gotten a rocket into space. The EU has the Ariane project and Japan has the MLV.

Not to mention the private groups (including students!) that have gotten rockets.

The problem is getting a man inside and bringing him back alive.

yes, life support is the problem.

but putting a man in space, and also the moon, is such an empty investment, it says something about a country willing to do it.

[stryker76]

yes, life support is the problem.

but putting a man in space, and also the moon, is such an empty investment, it says something about a country willing to do it.

AN EMPTY INVESTMENT????

You no nothing about the space programs dont you?

1 Hundreds or products used in many medicines we take can only be made in mirco gravity (SPACE)

2 If you say to dont kno our enemies....Then y was it that in 2001 private American companies spotted the first completely Chinese Spy plane that they where dumb enough to leave out on the run way was spot an photo graphed.

3 GPS is used all over the world and saves countless lives every day from ppl lost or children that have been kidnapped abd may be caring cell phones.

4. Being able to communicate globally is thanx to the space program.

5. The proposel of colonizing space isnt just a Sci-Fi fiction concept. Its the next big step in Space travel.

6. The Ability to watch the always changing weather.

7. The ability to help give fast warnings to people that are at risk of dangerous weather.

There are many more reasons that the space program is soo valuable to use and Almost every other country in the world.
The space program is hardly an empty investment.

Sorry for ne rudeness it jes pisses me off to see some say that when so many lives where lost to give us much of what we use today.

Remember the Challenger, Columbia, and all the others the gave there life to improve ours and in the name of discover leading up to what we have today.

[sadolakced acid]

it's an empty investment for other countries.

the government does not earn money from spinoff technologies of the space program.

expecially with already established space programs, it is much more economical to go into space on a russian rocket than to build your own.

the technologies that simply going to space spins off have already been developed. there is no gain from reproducing what the US did in the 60s. Unless china can build a space station and start experiments there, they will not reap any rewards from the space program.

and your list:

1- microgravity can be achieved much cheaper with a parabolic flight path airplane.

2- inconsequetial. how do you know that wasn't intentional? plus, it's not applicable to the topic right now, at least, i don't seehow it is.

3- GPS does not require manned space missions.

4- communications sattelittes do not require manned space missions.

5- the longest stay in space by a human was on the order of two years. researchers still do not know how a human embryo will develop in space. Any colonization in space must wait for new technologies.

6- weather satallites do not require manned space missions.

7- weather satallites and communication satallites do not require manned space missions.


i know quite a lot about the US space program. and the US space program is certainly not an empty investment- but the chinese space program is, currently.

[stryker76]

1-  microgravity can be achieved much cheaper with a parabolic flight path airplane.

I do say that yes that would be a cheaper way of making a near 0g atmosphere but for the purpose of making medicines and such. That would not be a likely choice since it is only for a limited time before every thing comes crashing down again.

[sadolakced acid]

name me one medicine that must be developed in zero G.

anyways; it seems the british are getting the idea:

http://www.cnn.com/video/player/player.htm...se.homework.cnn