Let's Buy Jesus!, Religion & Consumer Products Options

[*kryogenix*]

Did you guys ever think that by wearing those shirts, these kids are making the religion more appealing to other teenagers, to get them more involved and interested in the religion? They see that these other kids are Christian and that it CAN be fun and not all just dull, boring crap, and they get interested and want to know what goes on in Christian settings. Doesn't this..help..the religion? All these products are just making the religion more appealing to the masses. Isn't that what Christians want? To spread Christianity? You would think that this would be the best thing anyone's ever thought of, not something bad.

It's not the fact that the message is being spread out, it's the way the message is being spread. I would think it disrespectful to call Jesus a "homeboy." If the person is being sincere in spreading Christ's message, I guess you can't hold that against them, but I tend to think that these shirts are just trying to cash in on The Passion of the Christ's success (I first saw these shirts after the movie came out).

[innovation]

I agree with Sammi. It's all about the intention behind the consumerism. Besides, I don't think it's even possible for the consumer market to be censored by eliminating all merchandise labeled as religiously immoral. Then again, I'm sure that when an object is blatantly sacrilege, the public's reaction will be enough to censor it (i.e. the Abercrombie tees--but that was more of a cultural thing).

This is an awesome topic for my theory of knowledge class during our ethics unit. Hmm...

[illumineering]

I agree with Sammi. It's all about the intention behind the consumerism. Besides, I don't think it's even possible for the consumer market to be censored by eliminating all merchandise labeled as religiously immoral. Then again, I'm sure that when an object is blatantly sacrilege, the public's reaction will be enough to censor it (i.e. the Abercrombie tees--but that was more of a cultural thing).

This is an awesome topic for my theory of knowledge class during our ethics unit. Hmm...

The intention of consumerism is profit! Whatever is being produced needs to be done in such a way that it will create a brand identity and loyalty. Marketing spirituality is the creation of an identity that people buy. Spirituality isn't bought or sold in a store and has nothing to do with brand identity. It's quite the opposite. Religious/spiritual values derived from the purchase of goods does not suggest immorality or the need for censorship, either. A simple lesson in values may be in order. Consumerism and religion are not synonymous.

[*disco infiltrator*]

But their religion is their identity. That's who they are, that's what they believe and know as truth, that's what they want others to follow in as well; why not have something to help spread it and identify themselves with the rest of the group? It happens in many, many other things in our culture {emo, preppy, goth, race, nationality}. It's not offensive to make shirts saying, "Italitan Guys Are Hot", such as one I have, but it is to make shirts about Jesus? Is it only because it's Jesus? Why does it matter that people make money off of it; our entire foundation is built on money. We pay for EVERYTHING, and if people want to identify themselves with a certain religion, then they're probably going to have to pay for that too.

[illumineering]

But their religion is their identity. That's who they are, that's what they believe and know as truth, that's what they want others to follow in as well; why not have something to help spread it and identify themselves with the rest of the group? It happens in many, many other things in our culture {emo, preppy, goth, race, nationality}. It's not offensive to make shirts saying, "Italitan Guys Are Hot", such as one I have, but it is to make shirts about Jesus? Is it only because it's Jesus? Why does it matter that people make money off of it; our entire foundation is built on money. We pay for EVERYTHING, and if people want to identify themselves with a certain religion, then they're probably going to have to pay for that too.

You're missing my point. If your notion of "following spirituality" is tied to the purchase of items that create brand identity, that is not spirituality. It is consumerism. Just because people are lemmings and identify themselves by external appearances and what they own does not make it ok. Following a set of spiritual and religious beliefs is not about "buying" anything. If you think you're someone because of what you wear or own, every PR and marketing firm from Madison Ave. to LA will be cashing another round of bonus checks in the near future.

A foundation built of money will fall. Enron, World Com, Adelphia, Tyco...
All of these companies freely adopted your belief that it's all about the money and wrecked thousands of lives. Oh yeah, remember Jim and Tammy Fae Baker? They also espoused the value of money.

I hear Jim's got a new church, I hear he's soliciting donations for his new Rolls Royce that God says he needs for the Mobile Ministry. He'll be giving away autographed prison apparel for every $100 donation. I guess he took the Heidi Fleiss correspondence course on Fashon for Felons. $1000 will get you the Martha Stewart Jailhouse Jeweled Accessory Ensemble. Yeah, I guess it's all about the money. So, I was wrong.

[Spirited Away]

You're missing my point. If your notion of "following spirituality" is tied to the purchase of items that create brand identity, that is not spirituality. It is consumerism. Just because people are lemmings and identify themselves by external appearances and what they own does not make it ok. Following a set of spiritual and religious beliefs is not about "buying" anything. If you think you're someone because of what you wear or own, every PR and marketing firm from Madison Ave. to LA will be cashing another round of bonus checks in the near future.
A foundation built of money will fall.  Enron, World Com, Adelphia, Tyco...
All of these companies freely adopted your belief that it's all about the money and wrecked thousands of lives.  Oh yeah, remember Jim and Tammy Fae Baker?  They also espoused the value of money. 

I have a question there, what about the Catholic Church? It weathered the rise of calamitous events with money. For centuries its power comes from money and believers, and the former weilds much more influence over any other possible factor. For example, money used to buy forgiveness, and though we all know no righteous God would condone this act, there are people who did believe in it. They actually thought that money can buy grace with God. I think, we must consider that this "buying" spirituality does exist today still. I completely agree with you that the buying of faith wrong, but there are people who believe that it's right. In their minds, toting a "Jesus is my homeboy" T-shirt is the same as showing love for God.

[illumineering]

I have a question there, what about the Catholic Church? It weathered the rise of calamitous events with money. For centuries its power comes from money and believers, and the former weilds much more influence over any other possible factor. For example, money used to buy forgiveness, and though we all know no righteous God would condone this act, there are people who did believe in it. They actually thought that money can buy grace with God. I think, we must consider that this "buying" spirituality does exist today still. I completely agree with you that the buying of faith wrong, but there are people who believe that it's right. In their minds, toting a "Jesus is my homeboy" T-shirt is the same as showing love for God.

I don't think the Catholic church has weathered the storm at all. Enrollment at Catholic schools is declining so rapidly, they are closing the doors of many of them. (At least in the Pittsburgh/Buffalo area.) There have been deep declines in the numbers of people attending church as well. The financial reprocussions of the priest scandals has yet to fully be determined as many cases have yet to be tried.

If you google these keywords, you'll see what I'm saying. They generate 3.6 million hits.

catholic church financial trouble

I'm not saying that buying spirituality doesn't exist. I'm pointing to the consequences of it. If people are blind enough to accept it, priests will continue to molest children and a new Jim Baker will rise up to collect money under the guise of religion in order to live a life of luxury and entitlement.

[Spirited Away]

I don't think the Catholic church has weathered the storm at all.  Enrollment at Catholic schools is declining so rapidly, they are closing the doors of many of them.  (At least in the Pittsburgh/Buffalo area.)  There have been deep declines in the numbers of people attending church as well.  The financial reprocussions of the priest scandals has yet to fully be determined as many cases have yet to be tried. 
If you google these keywords, you'll see what I'm saying.  They generate 3.6 million hits.
catholic church financial trouble
I'm not saying that buying spirituality doesn't exist.  I'm pointing to the consequences of it.  If people are blind enough to accept it, priests will continue to molest children and a new Jim Baker will rise up to collect money under the guise of religion in order to live a life of luxury and entitlement.

Yes, it is declining but only after nearly 2000 years of sovereignty. By weathering certain events, I meant the likes of Jews in Europe, the Reformation and Henry VIII... etc. In other words, considering how Eron and World Com ended up, the Catholic Church still have long ways to go before reaching such an end if at all, thanks to its foundation of wealth. I guess I should consider that one of such reason is due to the faith of the people in the Church and that Eron and World Com did not own that completely. But again, money is usually the deciding factor. I guess I wanted to say that any foundation will fall eventually as nothing lasts forever, but to me, having money does help to procrastinate the end.

And I agree with the effect and consequences you've brought up, though we will not see the consequences of the Church meeting an end like Eron in our lifetime.
never mind. i agree.

[*disco infiltrator*]

You're missing my point.  If your notion of "following spirituality" is tied to the purchase of items that create brand identity, that is not spirituality.  It is consumerism.  Just because people are lemmings and identify themselves by external appearances and what they own does not make it ok.  Following a set of spiritual and religious beliefs is not about "buying" anything.  If you think you're someone because of what you wear or own, every PR and marketing firm from Madison Ave. to LA will be cashing another round of bonus checks in the near future.

A foundation built of money will fall.  Enron, World Com, Adelphia, Tyco...
All of these companies freely adopted your belief that it's all about the money and wrecked thousands of lives.  Oh yeah, remember Jim and Tammy Fae Baker?  They also espoused the value of money. 

I hear Jim's got a new church, I hear he's soliciting donations for his new Rolls Royce that God says he needs for the Mobile Ministry.  He'll be giving away autographed prison apparel for every $100 donation.  I guess he took the Heidi Fleiss correspondence course on Fashon for Felons.  $1000 will get you the Martha Stewart Jailhouse Jeweled Accessory Ensemble.  Yeah, I guess it's all about the money.  So, I was wrong.

I'm not missing your point at all, and if you'd notice, I never tied following spirituality with consumerism. I related identifying yourself with it. You don't have to buy anything to be spiritual. However, these people want to show off that they follow it. You don't have to, but they want to. That's not following it, that's showing it off. Don't put words in my mouth.

[illumineering]

Don't put words in my mouth.

I'm not so no need for defensiveness because we don't agree. By the way here's the basis of my comment.

But their religion is their identity. That's who they are, that's what they believe and know as truth, that's what they want others to follow in as well; why not have something to help spread it and identify themselves with the rest of the group?

[innovation]

The intention of consumerism is profit!  Whatever is being produced needs to be done in such a way that it will create a brand identity and loyalty.  Marketing spirituality is the creation of an identity that people buy.  Spirituality isn't bought or sold in a store and has nothing to do with brand identity.  It's quite the opposite.  Religious/spiritual values derived from the purchase of goods does not suggest immorality or the need for censorship, either.  A simple lesson in values may be in order.  Consumerism and religion are not synonymous.

I meant the intention of the consumers themselves, not the producers of the items. Perhaps "consumerism" was the wrong word to use, but I meant the intention of the consumers in purchasing these products. If their only intention is to create a superficial identity, then it is not in accord with their faith.

Newsweek and TIME have also been accused of "commercializing" religion because well, it sells. However, many religious leaders have been opposed to this because it encourages "snapshots" of religions rather than attempts at truly understanding them.

[illumineering]

I meant the intention of the consumers themselves, not the producers of the items. Perhaps "consumerism" was the wrong word to use, but I meant the intention of the consumers in purchasing these products. If their only intention is to create a superficial identity, then it is not in accord with their faith.

Newsweek and TIME have also been accused of "commercializing" religion because well, it sells. However, many religious leaders have been opposed to this because it encourages "snapshots" of religions rather than attempts at truly understanding them.

Ahhh...that makes sense. Good point!

[Comptine]

I meant the intention of the consumers themselves, not the producers of the items. Perhaps "consumerism" was the wrong word to use, but I meant the intention of the consumers in purchasing these products. If their only intention is to create a superficial identity, then it is not in accord with their faith.

Newsweek and TIME have also been accused of "commercializing" religion because well, it sells. However, many religious leaders have been opposed to this because it encourages "snapshots" of religions rather than attempts at truly understanding them.

i would think that "snapshorts" would be a problem. religion is something sacred and is suppose to be part of your whole being. these products take parts of the religion and completely remove it from the rest. if you mass produce something, it loses it rarity and it's specialness.

a lot of people brought up the issue of how people spread their religion. a lot of people believe that if they can convert all humans to believe in jesus, then the second coming will arrive. the products, are they the right way to go about it?

[innovation]

People have suggested a mandatory "world cultures" class for secondary school students, which would encompass world religions, as well. The hope is that through learning about these religions in-depth, stereotypes will be alleviated and students will learn to appreciate their sacredness. I think Pennsylvania requires that course (?). Well, at least, I took it in PA. I take IB World Religions now as a diploma elective.

- whoops, getting off-topic.

[f4113n]

some religions consider it sacreligious to have any material representation of their divine being(s), they think that it diverts the attention fromthe real diving being, but other religions think that having a statue or something of a divine being is the only way to pray or something like that......but im an atheist so i couldnt really care less

[chocolateaficion...]

Even though I'm not the very religious type (I'm Catholic), I find it disrespectful and I dislike the fact that people find it amusing. Well, that's just me.

[acid_high]

I think it's great that people have got off it about that is sooo not cool and we shouldn't be open to everyones religion. There's a point when we start selling out people's relgion and this is the time. I mean were making money off jesus is my homeboy. Tell me this is that the only thing you could come up with