Nintendo Revolutions Controller, Lets check it out.. Options

[ThunderEvermore]

This is part of my problem with this "discussion"--no matter what reasons I give, my argument keeps getting reduced to "I fear change." That's not at all what my argument is about, and it would be nice if people would actually listen to what I said. The people who like the controller seem only to be saying, "It's going to be really cool," (there's not much more to say, since none have tried it yet), but at least I don't reduce their arguments by saying they are fanboys who are just gobbling up anything their favorite company releases. I know some have a better argument than that, so I've actually responded to what they wrote. I'd appreciate if it people didn't put words in my mouth, either.

Id appretiate if you listened to me.

At all.

The other guy weaved stories of the controller being uncomfortable, of his arm getting tired, and that it would bring hellfire and brimstone down on Nintendo.

Thusly, his "opinion" was shut down.

No one even said anything to you about it. You just came in here talking about how people were hipocrites when they didnt say anything to you.

[AngryBaby]

im gone for a few seconds and already you think i got "shutdown" you obviously werent listening to him, he said hypocrits because you guys were saying how we cant judge it until it comes out, yet you guys can say how fun it will be. thats what he meant by the hypocracy.

now i actually found out today that one of my friends got the oppurtunity to play an import of the rev. with the controller. but ill get to his review in a second.

kryo you talk up nintendo now like it was the top system last generation. sure, back in the day nintendo was the man. but it really had no competition. now that it has two competitors, they have beaten nintendo in sales, scores, reviews, and fans. and its not like i dont like nintendo, im just being real. now nintendos is being deemed as "more of a childrens title" which may or may not be true, but still is being said. and you probably know this.

The point is not to take over, its not to put Sony and M$ out of business. The point of the thing is to change the way people think about gaming, to create a more intuitive and immersive gaming experience, and to allow not only the supposed hardcore gamers to play, but casual and nongamers as well.

sorry, wrong, nintendo's not that out of touch with the real world. this is a business strategy, a clever but incredibly risky one. because with the attitude that you listed, nintendo would go out of business. nintendo didnt have the best year for the gamecube, and people speculated and made rumors that nintendo will be gone like Sega ( for example the thread about apple buying nintendo). do you honestly think nintendo doesnt care about this? thats why they need something different, something that sets them apart that may still give them a fighting chance, which is this controller. because really, without this controller(incredibly flawed or not) what really makes nintendo interesting now? because we have two top systems having everyones attention that everyone is talking about and is excentric about. while nintendo, having less than sadisfactory years with the Cube and being deemed as kiddie, no one is even paying much attention to it, especially to consider buying it over a PS3 or 360. except its fewer percentage of loyal fans. and i say fewer because if it was a high percentage, gamecube would still be at the top. this is a average and sensible thing to do. but nintendo decides to mess with the controller. not a little bit like in the past where people went "oooh cool" but made it so that it changes everything where your casual gamer will go "what the hell" which may not be the best thing to do (which i think is an incredibly stupid move on their part) nintendo made a remote to bring something less intimidating, more familiar to the "casual gamer" but, how "casual" do they think they are? after about 10 years i think people got used to controllers by now. now i asked the kind of people that nintendo is trying to pull into gaming what they think of this controller, after telling them everything that it cand do, the "kind of people" were...my parents. my dad said, "eh, not something i wanna play with," he saw a picture of it also."that...looks more awkward than fun, i dont know what nintendo is doing now-a-days" my dad is in the retail industry he's district manager of Best Buy to be exact. so he knows alot about the sales comparisons on the cube, and when he tells parents what system to get for a young child guess what he points them to. and when someone of a mature nature comes in and wants advice on what they should get guess what he points them too.
my mom: "its a remote" i had to explain to her again what it does " sounds like too much for me" i told my uncle (who is young) he just laughed and said "thats stupid nintendo used to be good but now they should just stop" and you know these people wont look into this any further. these people arent "fanboys" either they dont care about "loyalty" (neither do i). and when i talked to peole at my school about this it was even worse of a response. they would say "thats so gay"
in laughter, even people that owned a cube would say " i dont like this idea much"
or " what? we have to reform so nintendo can TRY to pull in a broader audience?"
and then theres the general responses "you'll look like a crazy person" and then they mock how the controller would be used in laughter,(and this was people who saw the video). and these are seniors and juniors in high school. i got not one person that thought this would be awsome. i even got to the point where i tried to use points i didnt even agree with to try to persuade people, just for the sake of experimentation. and they said "like, every game will be like timecrisis" or "thats like a fucken arcade" so thats a little insight for when you guys say
"most people love it" here look at this for example

Controller Debate



Some people love it, some people hate it.

Original Opinion Piece

Cyndy Threadgill writes:

When the gaming world got wind of Nintendo’s next-gen system, the Nintendo Revolution, everyone wondered how the big N was going to compete with the Xbox 360 and the PS3. The E3 unveiling of the little black box served to amaze and confuse gamers around the world. Then they come out with pictures of this…thing. Some weird as heck, ungodly looking controller thing that looks all too much like a remote control.



Now I am always open to new and innovative gaming ideas, but come on! What in the world were they thinking? Who needs another remote? I have a hard enough time keeping up with the ones I already have. The last thing I need to do is lose the remote controller or whatever you want to call it, to my console and then have it end up as nothing more than a sleek looking piece of modern art.



But while I’m complaining, let’s take a look at the overall design of this monstrosity, just to make sure that we’re all on the same page. I want fan boys to pay close attention because I am not biased. I own nearly every home console system ever created. Anyone and I do mean ANYONE should be able to see the flagrant flaws in this design.



First off, it’s a remote. Plain and simple. Wireless…good. Remote…bad. I can already see myself losing the thing and all the bright colors and flashing lights in the world aren’t going to help me with that. I sure hope the Nintendo Revolution has a built in page button so I can find my lost remote control. Next, who in their right mind puts the power button next to the directional pad? Pick it up wrong after a snack break or thumb slips off the D-pad and someone is going to be literally crying because they hadn’t saved in three hours. I hope it’s not very sensitive or requires a fingernail to push it all the way down.



An optional analog stick. Hmm. Does no one see how awkward this would be? Look at that short cord. Now just imagine playing a game that requires you to rotate the analog stick like the numerous Mario Party games. Hold your hand up, put your thumb out and try that in midair. Granted that’s not every game, but just think about quick movements. Sure you could just set it down on your lap but you’ll be pulling that annoying remote all over the place while you’re doing it.



I don’t have a problem with this being just a glorified remote. I have a problem with it being poorly designed. The button layout is horrific. You aren’t going to be playing any serious fighting game or much of anything complex with this set up. I can’t even imagine playing anything in the Soul Calibur or Resident Evil series on it.

It’s essentially got four unfathomably awkward placed control buttons (not including start, home and select), a ridiculous “optional” analog stick and it’s a REMOTE! Nintendo needs to go back to the drawing board and come up with a real controller that gamers can actually use intuitively for something other than simplistic games. The NES days are long gone. Gamers don’t mind a bit of complexity in control but they do mind outright…I don’t even think there’s even a term for what this thing is. It seems just that bad to me.

Agree or disagree with this opinion piece? Share your thoughts in this thread!

and thats not all, just type in "rev. controller sucks" or something on google.

now, heres what my friend that actually got to play an imported rev. with the controller had to say.

him(russel): the thing isnt all that great, i dont like it at all, nintendo better do something quickabout having regular controllers.

me: seriously? what was wrong with it?

him(russel): well first off, you know the tracer? its like, a bit too accurate yaknow?, when you're "moving" and you do the slightest wrong thing with your wrist the character will do it, which made me pissed because if my wrist went down a bit and there goes your guy.

but like, you can turn it off and on with the remote.

me: i know, that is pretty convient

Him(russel): no, not so much, because its like, RIGHT next to the D-pad. i swear i turned the game off like 8 times because my thumb accidently hit the off button. and it gets you so pissed because you get far, and then you'd push the off button accidently, and your screwed.

me:wow hahahaha damn anything else?

him(russel): oh! and the b and a button were so far down from from everthing else. i had to throw the controller up and down in my palms to try to get to it. and when i threw the controller up in my palms, thats when you can easily accidently press the off button.

me: what did you play?

him(russel): um, first i played a baseball game, like that advertisement, you do swing after the ball. you do it while pressing B.

me: did you like it?

him(russel): it wasnt... fun, its just like the batting cages at gameworks. baseball games on the old systems were better.

me: and what else did you get to play? did they have any third person games?

him(russel): they had about 3 demonstrations on 1st person games and 1 on a 3rd person game.

me: ooh, and how was the 3rd person? how can you do stuff, like combos? you have to swing the remote right?

him(russel): well they have this extra analog thing thats like attached by cord

me: haha yeah i know all that

him(russel):oh, haha well they have the analog thing right, did i mention that thing is wierd? the cord is too short, but anyway yeah there is two buttons on the front of the analog thing and you gotta do combinations while swinging your sword. its just all......blah, too wierd.

me: jeez

him(russel): yeah, you know whats funny? through out me playing the whole time, i was wishing i had a regular controller haha. it just basically sucked. and the rev. didnt even have that great of graphics. haha just to throw that in. the games are too simplistic.

me: wow some of that stuff i didnt even think about, like the off button thing.

(then somebody over hears our convo)

new guy: hey are you guys talking about that revolution?

me: yeah he actually got to play it.

new guy: seriously? is that controller not the stupidest thing you've ever seen? hahahaha.

him(russel): yeah pretty much, i didnt it would actually be bad at first

and this is a kid that owned a gamecube as well, so you cant necessarily call him a fan boy.


you see, its not change im afraid of im just afraid of suck

[sadolakced acid]

it's just a controller guys.

(try to keep your arguments shorter. i don't want to read novels on this!)

[vash1530]

^yea wtf! i'm not gonna read all that!!!

[*mipadi*]

Id appretiate if you listened to me.

At all.

The other guy weaved stories of the controller being uncomfortable, of his arm getting tired, and that it would bring hellfire and brimstone down on Nintendo.

Thusly, his "opinion" was shut down.

No one even said anything to you about it. You just came in here talking about how people were hipocrites when they didnt say anything to you.

His opinion was shot down? If a guy says a controller is uncomfortable to use, that might make no sense, but it's hard to refute it if you haven't used the controller either. Thus, such an argument is hypocritical. In this specific case, both arguments make no sense.

[*kryogenix*]

im gone for a few seconds and already you think i got "shutdown" you obviously werent listening to him, he said hypocrits because you guys were saying how we cant judge it until it comes out, yet you guys can say how fun it will be. thats what he meant by the hypocracy.

So many of your points have been shut down already...

now i actually found out today that one of my friends got the oppurtunity to play an import of the rev. with the controller. but ill get to his review in a second.

BS. The "Broadway" processor was only completed a little while ago. The alpha kits (read: Not the revolution, just hardware to simulate the revolution in order to develop software) were just shipped to developers very recently.

One of a few possibilities here:

1) Your friend is a higher up in Nintendo or a software developer, and he *might* have just broken an NDA, and now is subject to lawsuit by Nintendo.
2) Your friend is a liar.
3) You are a liar.

kryo you talk up nintendo now like it was the top system last generation. sure, back in the day nintendo was the man. but it really had no competition. now that it has two competitors, they have beaten nintendo in sales, scores, reviews, and fans. and its not like i dont like nintendo, im just being real. now nintendos is being deemed as "more of a childrens title" which may or may not be true, but still is being said. and you probably know this.

I talk up Nintendo because I hear so much crap about them, like the "kiddie" image you mention. I'll remind you that I skipped this console generation entirely, because I didn't want to have to drop hundreds of dollars on something I wouldn't have so much fun on. I'm definitely buying an Xbox once the price drops below $100, maybe a PS2 if I don't end up getting a PS3. If all things hold true for the Revolution ($200 or below launch, hit titles at launch, virtual console and awesome controller are the selling points I am most interested in), I'm buying it.

sorry, wrong, nintendo's not that out of touch with the real world. this is a business strategy, a clever but incredibly risky one. because with the attitude that you listed, nintendo would go out of business. nintendo didnt have the best year for the gamecube, and people speculated and made rumors that nintendo will be gone like Sega ( for example the thread about apple buying nintendo).

Contrary to your belief, Nintendo isn't doing as poorly as you think. It's number one in profits, and if I recall correctly, number two in worldwide sales. And if you count handheld sales, it's a solid number one in total hardware sales.

and thats not all, just type in "rev. controller sucks" or something on google.

Yeah, type in the world is flat and you'll get people saying it is, doesn't everyone believes it. Try revolution controller opinions, and you'll get a view more representative of what people think online.

now,  heres what my friend that actually got to play an imported rev. with the controller had to say.

Again, someone is probably lying here.

[AngryBaby]

i cant tell if you even read all what i had to say^

if you guys "shut me down", you'd have me on your side, all you did was help convince yourselves, you didnt convince me of anything, therefore you didnt shutdown shit.

His opinion was shot down? If a guy says a controller is uncomfortable to use, that might make no sense, but it's hard to refute it if you haven't used the controller either. Thus, such an argument is hypocritical. In this specific case, both arguments make no sense.

of course i agree with you, though i didnt say it is uncomfortable, i basically just said it looks. and i gave reasons why i thought that, over and over. and its not like what i had to say was unfathable, i simply looked over the remote, and pointed out flaws i saw that would make sense. i didnt just look at it and say "its a damn remote" like most people will do. so at least respect that.

becaus its morning and i dont feel like typing much and im about to head out and see narnia. i going to paste an opinion that basically matches what my general thoughts are of the controller, keep in mind this wont go into detail of the flaws that it has. this is just a general thought.

Over the last several years Nintendo has worked hard to become next to nothing compared to their once former glory. They’ve been pretty successful so far since the once mainstream name brand that anyone knew and loved has been demoted to a game company that makes games for 12-year-olds and rabid fanboys (many of them 12). The most ridiculous thing the big N has done lately is to focus gamers away from their upcoming next generation system specs like those silly companies Microsoft and Sony by making the gaming public pontificate on the most important thing of all: What’s their next controller going to look like?

The controller was rumored to be godlike and perhaps give you orgasms. N-fans with way too much time on their hands spent the last several months trying to reproduce what they think the thing might look like via Photoshop. Message boards were crowded with hot debate over the controller. Forget about what kind of games might be available, will the controller have a gyroscope? Will it be virtual reality? Or would it bake cookies for the homeless? It got so inane that an episode of G4 TV spent at least twenty minutes talking about the damn thing. They took calls and even had a guest discussing what it might actually do. If you’re wondering, the most obvious question wasn’t asked, “Why does anyone care?”

It really speaks about the company when the biggest thing they have coming down the pipe is a new Zelda game, downloads of 20-year-old games that you can get for free off the internet, and some mysterious mana-powered controller. While X-Box 360 is nearly here and Playstation 3 details are coming out, Nintendo creates speculation about something nearly inconsequential. Just a couple of weeks ago the mystic, world shattering controller was unveiled and it’s…. drum roll…. a f**king remote control. Granted, I’m doing a lot of judging without ever having played with the thing, but come on already. It’s a remote control with a D-Pad. Oh I forgot, if you wave it around, it affects movement on screen. This is exactly the kind of thing that would seem awesome if I was six. Need I remind anyone of gaming gimmicks like like that stupid Nintendo Robot, U-force, or Power Glove? I’m twenty-six now so the prospect of waving a controller around has lost a lot of its appeal. Oh yeah, to play shooting games that require more controls there’s a special plug in unit that makes it look like a tampon for robots.


An early prototype controller had a rear entry port so Nintendo could screw you directly.

In the article on 1Up.com Nintendo is quoted as saying that they want a controller than no one will be intimidated with, one that even your mom can use. You know what? My mother doesn’t play video games, and I’m willing that most mothers don’t give two craps about what a controller looks like. Nintendo said they are not in competition with Microsoft and Sony. I guess they weren’t kidding since they’re after that valuable untapped mom market. If your mom does play video games though, I’d hope she’s bright enough to use a normal controller and not be scared of the thing. I can see an overly frantic mother seeing an Xbox controller for the first time, “Lordy no! My child ain't touching that tool of the devil!”

It's no surprise that the Nintendo fan base is turning out in mass support for it. In their comments at 1Up they say things like, “After being not so sure about the DS, seeing this convinces me that Nintendo is serious about reinventing gaming.” Yes, it’s certainly a revolution to use a one handed controller, if we forget that one handed controllers have been made by third parties in the past. They just turned the whole industry on its ear with this one! How about this comment: “I can't believe it. But it seems like Nintendo has done it again. I can't wait to play a virtual boxing game, or swing a lightsaber!!” Oh boy, and maybe I can buy one of those games I see wasting away at Wal-Mart where the controller looks like a baseball bat or golf club and you can swing it at the screen. I can say things like, “I’m swinging my force powered remote! Look at me, I’m a Jackass!” Personally, I can’t wait for the new wave of Hentai/Dating Sims. Just think about it; the thing is a one-handed motion sensitive controller. Hot ass.

At least Nintendo has done something good for me. It’s narrowed down the hard choice of what new gaming system to get between Sony and Microsoft.

[sadolakced acid]

nintendo= wants to change the way you play games.

microsoft= wants to make your games more realisitic.

sony= wants you to buy a blu-ray player.


of these three goals, i think nintendo's is the best, don't you?

[AngryBaby]

sometimes the feeling i get from nintendo is that im an experiment.

one fault that nintendo has is that they experiment a little too much, which means somethig may be good, or something may be okay, or something may be bad.

for example, DS and PSP, (i own both).

DS sure, its more innovative with the touch screen and mic and all, but does that mean i have more fun with it than my psp? no, not necessarily. to me a touch screen doesnt beat an overall game. nintendo is too focused on HOW you play the game, than the game itself. because i have more fun with the initial games on the psp, like metal gear ac!d and tony hawks american wasteland or need for speed underground rivals. and even when the games come out for both handhelds, i still have more fun with it on the psp. the touch screen can only do so much for me. i always feel like its not necessarily needed. when it comes down to it, i think nintendo forgets that the games are supposed to create the fun, not a controller or a touch screen. because what matters, is what the game it plays is like. i fear that the controller will make games too simplistic and arcade like.

[pandamonium]

its funny how i made a topic JUST on the nintendo revolution's controller and it got closed and here is the same exact thing and there is 4 pages on it. thats so screwed up.

well. thats great.

but i think nintendo puts you in the game more. gets you to interact with the game more than other games. thats why is so fun to play nintendo games. thats why everybody will be curious to try out this revolutionary controller.

[*kryogenix*]

i cant tell if you even read all what i had to say^

if you guys "shut me down", you'd have me on your side, all you did was help convince yourselves, you didnt convince me of anything, therefore you didnt shutdown shit.
of course i agree with you, though i didnt say it is uncomfortable, i basically just said it looks. and i gave reasons why i thought that, over and over. and its not like what i had to say was unfathable, i simply looked over the remote, and pointed out flaws i saw that would make sense. i didnt just look at it and say "its a  damn remote" like most people will do. so at least respect that.

Would you like me to point out the comparisons you made that were proven invalid?

Now for the opinion bit:

Over the last several years Nintendo has worked hard to become next to nothing compared to their once former glory. They’ve been pretty successful so far since the once mainstream name brand that anyone knew and loved has been demoted to a game company that makes games for 12-year-olds and rabid fanboys (many of them 12). The most ridiculous thing the big N has done lately is to focus gamers away from their upcoming next generation system specs like those silly companies Microsoft and Sony by making the gaming public pontificate on the most important thing of all: What’s their next controller going to look like?

This is laughable. Look at Nintendo profits compared to SCEI and Microsoft Games, and you'll see Nintendo knows what they're doing. The "Kiddie" image is a myth, which is used as an excuse by people not to buy Nintendo, because they're afraid their peers will laugh at them.

The controller was rumored to be godlike and perhaps give you orgasms. N-fans with way too much time on their hands spent the last several months trying to reproduce what they think the thing might look like via Photoshop. Message boards were crowded with hot debate over the controller. Forget about what kind of games might be available, will the controller have a gyroscope? Will it be virtual reality? Or would it bake cookies for the homeless? It got so inane that an episode of G4 TV spent at least twenty minutes talking about the damn thing. They took calls and even had a guest discussing what it might actually do. If you’re wondering, the most obvious question wasn’t asked, “Why does anyone care?”

Likewise, people made mockups of the PS3 and XBOX 360 as well. Everyone cared because Nintendo kept it a secret, knowing that in the past, they were copied when they released a new controller feature.

It really speaks about the company when the biggest thing they have coming down the pipe is a new Zelda game, downloads of 20-year-old games that you can get for free off the internet, and some mysterious mana-powered controller. While X-Box 360 is nearly here and Playstation 3 details are coming out, Nintendo creates speculation about something nearly inconsequential. Just a couple of weeks ago the mystic, world shattering controller was unveiled and it’s…. drum roll…. a f**king remote control. Granted, I’m doing a lot of judging without ever having played with the thing, but come on already. It’s a remote control with a D-Pad. Oh I forgot, if you wave it around, it affects movement on screen. This is exactly the kind of thing that would seem awesome if I was six. Need I remind anyone of gaming gimmicks like like that stupid Nintendo Robot, U-force, or Power Glove? I’m twenty-six now so the prospect of waving a controller around has lost a lot of its appeal. Oh yeah, to play shooting games that require more controls there’s a special plug in unit that makes it look like a tampon for robots.

Don't forget Mario 128 and Smash bros online. The Gamecube launch was weak because it lacked a solid Mario title. The only other Nintendo console that didnt' launch with Mario was, you guessed it, the Virtual Boy (Even that made a profit though, if I recall correctly).

Then the guy proceeds to compare the thing to ROB, UForce and PowerGlove. All bad comparisons. First of all, ROB was not a controller. It was a novelty toy, like voice activated PC cold cathodes. It wasn't meant to put you into the game. Second, as I mentioned earlier, Power Glove was made by Mattel. UForce was made by Broderbund (Funny enough, they're the makers of Prince of Persia). That's not to say it's entirely their fault, the idea was pretty good, but the technology just wasn't there.

In the article on 1Up.com Nintendo is quoted as saying that they want a controller than no one will be intimidated with, one that even your mom can use. You know what? My mother doesn’t play video games, and I’m willing that most mothers don’t give two craps about what a controller looks like. Nintendo said they are not in competition with Microsoft and Sony. I guess they weren’t kidding since they’re after that valuable untapped mom market. If your mom does play video games though, I’d hope she’s bright enough to use a normal controller and not be scared of the thing. I can see an overly frantic mother seeing an Xbox controller for the first time, “Lordy no! My child ain't touching that tool of the devil!”

Again, he misses the point. Nintendo says that moms are thinking "oh, he's playing those videogames again, they're too complicated for me." With the Revolution controller, the scheme is a lot more intuitive, so it would be easier for a mom to pick it up and start waving it around to control movement.

Have you seen old Atari commercials? I remember seeing the Yar's Revenge commercial, where the mom says "let me try that!" and picks up the joystick. Back then controllers were very simple, Nintendo wants to make a controller that is the best of both worlds: simple enough for new users to learn but capable of doing more complex moves.

It's no surprise that the Nintendo fan base is turning out in mass support for it. In their comments at 1Up they say things like, “After being not so sure about the DS, seeing this convinces me that Nintendo is serious about reinventing gaming.” Yes, it’s certainly a revolution to use a one handed controller, if we forget that one handed controllers have been made by third parties in the past. They just turned the whole industry on its ear with this one! How about this comment: “I can't believe it. But it seems like Nintendo has done it again. I can't wait to play a virtual boxing game, or swing a lightsaber!!” Oh boy, and maybe I can buy one of those games I see wasting away at Wal-Mart where the controller looks like a baseball bat or golf club and you can swing it at the screen. I can say things like, “I’m swinging my force powered remote! Look at me, I’m a Jackass!” Personally, I can’t wait for the new wave of Hentai/Dating Sims. Just think about it; the thing is a one-handed motion sensitive controller. Hot ass.

Nintendo has been reinventing gaming over and over again.

1) Post-videogame crash of 1983- What's a Nintendo Entertainment System? Isn't it one of those videogame things that suck? It'll never sell.
2) D-Pad- What's a D-Pad? It's just a crossed shaped thing, I think I'll stick with my joystick.
3) Analog thumbsticks- What's an analog thumbstick? It looks funny, D-Pads have worked all this time, no sense in changing them.
4) Force Feedback- What's this? I don't see the use of a shaking controller.
5) First Party Wireless controllers- Why do we need these? I'm sure no console will ever ship with these as standard?
6) Touchscreen- These are just gimmicks. They will never sell, and the PSP will dethrone Nintendo as king of handhelds.

I saw the controller first on 1up.com. Even though it is a multi platforum website, EVERYONE was talking about the controller. I dont' see how people don't get that this is a big deal.

Those cheap TV game golf baseball crap are wasting away for a reason. They suck, they're not meant to sell millions, they are just cheap toys that use cheap technology.

It sounds to me like this guy was ready to hate the Revolution controller, it's just that he didn't have anything to hate until it was launched.

Tell me how Narnia was when you get back.

[AngryBaby]

Tell me how Narnia was when you get back.

lol will do, im off. ill argue with you later ;D

[KrunkMuzik]

Uhm, plain stupid and ugly. I hate Nintendo. And i think it's not going to work out for them anymore. Sony and Microsoft just blew them away from their OWN skill.

[vash1530]

^thank you for that great contribution to this discussion

[ThunderEvermore]

His opinion was shot down? If a guy says a controller is uncomfortable to use, that might make no sense, but it's hard to refute it if you haven't used the controller either. Thus, such an argument is hypocritical. In this specific case, both arguments make no sense.

I said it had no merit.

i think this is a stupid idea

1. its going to be awkward and uncomfortablep

He did say it "IS" or it "IS GOING TO BE" uncomfortable.

Anyway... As for it being uncomfortable, for one, I highly doubt that considering Nintendo makes some of the most comfortable controllers out there. Secondly, youve never held it, for all you know it could be made partially out of some form of memory foam or gel that conforms to your hand so well that you cna hardly tell its there.

And I refuted it as such. Easy to see, and easy to read.

I wont go on and just reiterate everything Kryo said, I just wanted to make that point.

[*mipadi*]

Tell me, have you personally used the controller? If no, then it's not possible to make an effective statement about its comfort for awkwardness in either direction. Anything would just be speculation--which is fine, but if you speculate about something such as comfort, don't say that others can't spectulate, too.

[ThunderEvermore]

Tell me, have you personally used the controller? If no, then it's not possibly to make a statement about its comfort for awkwardness in either direction.

Youre not even reading, at all. Seriously, take a look at the words.

I said one thing about the confort in either direction, and that was that I doubted itd be uncomfortable, because Nintendo makes very comfortable controllers. but that was not the main aspect of the argument. The whole thing was about how he cant say anytyhing because hes never touched it.

I NEVER said that the controller was comfortable.

He said it wasnt.

Revised edition

Tell me, have you personally used the controller? If no, then it's not possible to make an effective statement about its comfort for awkwardness in either direction. Anything would just be speculation--which is fine, but if you speculate about something such as comfort, don't say that others can't spectulate, too.

He didnt speculate, he prophesized, he stated supposed fact. He made a statement, not an opinion.

[*mipadi*]

He didnt speculate, he prophesized, he stated supposed fact. He made a statement, not an opinion.

Negative. Clearly it's his opinion, as he not has not used it himself yet. Just because it is not phrased as "I think that..." does not mean it is a fact, not an opinion.

A lesson about expressing opinions: it is much better to express them solidly ("The controller is uncomfortable") rather than weakly ("I think that the controller is uncomfortable"). In a discussion such as this, it is clear that, unless shown to be a fact ("I have used the Revolution controller, and it is uncomfortable"), the statement is speculation and an opinion based on speculation. Furthermore, since comfort is subjective, any statement regarding comfort is an opinion.

[sadolakced acid]

he did assert it as fact and offered the testimonail of his "friend who got to use it"

[ThunderEvermore]

Negative. Clearly it's his opinion, as he not has not used it himself yet. Just because it is not phrased as "I think that..." does not mean it is a fact, not an opinion.

A lesson about expressing opinions: it is much better to express them solidly ("The controller is uncomfortable") rather than weakly ("I think that the controller is uncomfortable"). In a discussion such as this, it is clear that, unless shown to be a fact ("I have used the Revolution controller, and it is uncomfortable"), the statement is speculation and an opinion based on speculation. Furthermore, since comfort is subjective, any statement regarding comfort is an opinion.

Opinions, Lesson 2. You have to be using a topic in which it is clear that an opinion can be formed.

For example, I cant form opinion on the expression, 2+2. "2+2 is 78"

I can however form an opinion on how cake tastes. "Cake tastes great"

You can make an opinion on whether or not the controller is comfortable, but distinguising whether or not what youre stating is to be interpreted as such or as a fact is a bit blurry.

When he says "The controller is going to be uncomfortable" it is confused as fact because there is no tone nor word in which we can believe this is opinion. Its my "opinion" he stated this as fact.

Especially considering, as a previous poster pointed, he made claim that his friend actually held the controller.

Dont try and make me look dumb, Im not. When someone says "I never said this" and they did, I point it out, whether or not its supposed to be interpreted one way or another is irrelevant, especially considering he conveyed it in a particular way.

[*mipadi*]

I'm not really sure what you're getting at with your examples. "2+2=4" is a fact; thus, "2+2=78" is factually incorrect. There is no "opinion" on the matter.

There should be no confusion as to whether a statement such as "The Revolution's controller is uncomfortable" is fact or opinion, because comfort is a subjective state; therefore, it is never a fact. Even if someone phrases their statement as "The Revolution's controller is uncomfortable", it does not make it a fact--it should still be analyzed as an opinion. One cannot refute an opinion. One can question an opinion ("Why do you think the Revolution's controller is uncomfortable?"), or show errors in reaching an opinion ("You should not say the Revolution's controller is uncomfortable, since you have not used it yet, and at any rate, it looks ergonomic to me"), or question the credibility of a source ("I don't believe your friend used the controller"), but one cannot make a statement such as "Your opinion is wrong"--especially in a discussion in which all statements are speculative in nature.

My problem with the arguments in this thread is that many seem to be disregarding the opinions of others, and writing them off as invalid, which comes off as quite insulting. For example, a typical "discussion" might go like this:

"I think the Ninteno Revolution's controller is really cool, and will be a lot of fun to use."
"I don't. It will be uncomfortable and hard to use."
"Well, you haven't used it yet."

The argument makes no sense: neither person has yet used the controller; both are use their imagination to form an opinion. Yet, one basically says that the other's use of imagination is invalid, which makes no sense.

My point is that a more mannered discussion might go like this:

"I think the Ninteno Revolution's controller is really cool, and will be a lot of fun to use."
"I don't. It will be uncomfortable and hard to use."
"Why do you say that? It looks very ergonomical to me."
"I think it will be hard to use two pieces at once, and a quick test with my remote control shows that your wrist could cramp up pretty easily."
"The developers will probably make sure the controller setup is natural and easy to use. Besides, the design might change by the time the Revolution is released."

See? Both are recognizing that the other's use of imagination is valid; they are merely questioning each others ideas, not the use of the tools of imagination bestowed upon them.

[EddieV]

^ You give me a headache, not because I disagree with you, I don't know, it's confusing....

[AngryBaby]

Youre not even reading, at all. Seriously, take a look at the words.

I said one thing about the confort in either direction, and that was that I doubted itd be uncomfortable, because Nintendo makes very comfortable controllers. but that was not the main aspect of the argument. The whole thing was about how he cant say anytyhing because hes never touched it.

I NEVER said that the controller was comfortable.

He said it wasnt.

Revised edition

He didnt speculate, he prophesized, he stated supposed fact. He made a statement, not an opinion.

dude thats one opinion i made, if i didnt word it the best way, sorrrry. i thought you would realize that it was an opinion. you disregarded about every argument i made and made it seem like thats the only one i did make...

Opinions, Lesson 2. You have to be using a topic in which it is clear that an opinion can be formed.

For example, I cant form opinion on the expression, 2+2. "2+2 is 78"
I can however form an opinion on how cake tastes. "Cake tastes great"

what the hell is that supposed to mean?

[ThunderEvermore]

There should be no confusion as to whether a statement such as "The Revolution's controller is uncomfortable" is fact or opinion, because comfort is a subjective state; therefore, it is never a fact. Even if someone phrases their statement as "The Revolution's controller is uncomfortable", it does not make it a fact--it should still be analyzed as an opinion.

No, it can be interpreted as an objective fact. Its gonna be a fact that its uncomfortable in his hand, while it may be comfortable in another's. And you can't make this statement without that knowledge, in which he doesnt have.

One cannot refute an opinion. One can question an opinion ("Why do you think the Revolution's controller is uncomfortable?"), or show errors in reaching an opinion ("You should not say the Revolution's controller is uncomfortable, since you have not used it yet, and at any rate, it looks ergonomic to me"), or question the credibility of a source ("I don't believe your friend used the controller"), but one cannot make a statement such as "Your opinion is wrong"--especially in a discussion in which all statements are speculative in nature.

I didnt say he was wrong, I said I doubted it, and also pointed out that he shouldnt say it considering its not in consumer hands yet. AAAAAND I pointed out "Flaws in his opinion" as he gave reasons to why he felt itd be uncomfortable.

Find me one place where ANYONE here said he was wrong.

Anyone?

My problem with the arguments in this thread is that many seem to be disregarding the opinions of others, and writing them off as invalid, which comes off as quite insulting. For example, a typical "discussion" might go like this:

"I think the Ninteno Revolution's controller is really cool, and will be a lot of fun to use."
"I don't. It will be uncomfortable and hard to use."
"Well, you haven't used it yet."

The argument makes no sense: neither person has yet used the controller; both are use their imagination to form an opinion. Yet, one basically says that the other's use of imagination is invalid, which makes no sense.

My point is that "It will be uncomfortable and hard to use" is an unnacceptable expression of a so called opinion. You cant expect us to say "I think" all the time and you not to. "I think the controller will be uncomfortable" is fine.

At any rate the conversation still progresses despite the use of the statement "Youve never used it" popping up over and over. Youre the only one really hung up on it, and youve drawn in a few followers.

My point is that a more mannered discussion might go like this:

"I think the Ninteno Revolution's controller is really cool, and will be a lot of fun to use."
"I don't. It will be uncomfortable and hard to use."
"Why do you say that? It looks very ergonomical to me."
"I think it will be hard to use two pieces at once, and a quick test with my remote control shows that your wrist could cramp up pretty easily."
"The developers will probably make sure the controller setup is natural and easy to use. Besides, the design might change by the time the Revolution is released."

See? Both are recognizing that the other's use of imagination is valid; they are merely questioning each others ideas, not the use of the tools of imagination bestowed upon them.

And this is how it DID go

I think the controller is an amazing and innovative addition to the gaming world.

i think this is a stupid idea

1. its going to be awkward and uncomfortable

I highly doubt that considering Nintendo makes some of the most comfortable controllers out there. Secondly, youve never held it, for all you know it could be made partially out of some form of memory foam or gel that conforms to your hand so well that you cna hardly tell its there.

when i talk about your hand being tired i mean hand and wrist fatigue. extend your arm with the remote in your hand towards the TV for a few hours and see how you'll feel.

I dont see how thats different than holding a controller towards the TV/Console. You CAN rest it on your leg, lap, arm of the chair, etc when youre not directly using it to slash and shoot.

And so it goes on.

No insult tossing.

No disregarding.

Infact, everything was ok until you started throwing around the word hypocrite.

The bottom line is that when you state something that can be, and is being interpreted as a fact, especially when backed up by supposed first/second hand knowledge, you cant really speak because ITS NOT OUT YET.

[jEllyBeaNs]

ooo wow who in the heCk would actually use a freaKin "remote" to play a video game? come on now, that would be soo awkward trying to use one hand to, let alone ONE thumb to control wut u are doing. that would be soo difficult....for myself atleast. but my opinion is that it is just plain ugly, and just "STUPID"! its like a "handicap" controller or somethin.

why would you want to move yourself and the "remote" to the right or left just to make your player go that direction. thats just plain stupid. isn't that why some games made controller guns and steering wheels and what not. sometimes when i play House of the dead or a shooting game with a gun, its sometimes not so acurrate on shooting the target, soo think about how hard it would be to control a lil ugly a** remote, move your whole body, and use just only one thumb to controll wuts going on. i just dont understand why anyone would make this, and why anyone would actually like playing with it.