new hiring process, pros and cons Options

[*incoherent*]

so, i was talking with someone about this about 2 minutes ago and wanted to know what everyone though of how it went being the first time it was implimented.

i didnt want to put this just randomly in another thread, i wanted it to be seen.

so, pros and cons.

pros
-i liked the idea of nominations.

cons
-nominations seemed like endorsements which we did away with due to the fact that only people were picking their friends. i did talk to many mods, and noted it for myself too, that mods werent nominating just friends. i was nominated by 3 people i didnt even talk to.

-not everyone seems to get their chance. just because they dont stand out, doesnt mean they shouldnt be given a shot. sure, there was the discussion thread, but how much of that was taken in when nominations were made?

[Gigi]

This is pretty long but take the time to read this.

Pros
- I like how nominations lets us base our decisions solely on how the person presents themself on cB.

Cons
- I think a lot of qualified people weren't taken into consideration. Yeah, the mods are on a lot but it doesn't mean we know EVERYONE or remember EVERYONE. I know for sure that there are some people I forgot about that would still be great for the job.

- Although some people didn't like the old system because it was based on a lot of persuasion and writing a one-sided application, I prefer it over the current one. It let us become aware of ALL the people who were interested in the job, and let us judge ALL these people equally.

For nominations, a lot of it is based on how popular and how active a member is (yeah, yeah, mods are saying that it's not a popularity contest. But it IS, somewhat. If you're NOT popular enough you won't get noticed), so the choices made are very limited.

Applications allows for all the interested candidates to write an app and let us all judge each person equally. It sort of gives us a "list" of people, instead of having to pick people ourselves. The candidates shortlist themselves, and that makes things much easier and fairer.

You say that applications can lie, huh? Well, the mods aren't stupid. We can tell if the person is lying or not, or if they're qualified or not by just looking at their username. We don't need an application. The app is basically, IMO anyway, to tell people you're interested in being a mod. All the "reasons why we should hire you" may be the way to differentiate the excellent from the superior, but generally, a decision is made from the candidate's regular attitudes and helpfulness, etc, not some big essay.

Yeah. That was pretty long.

[sadolakced acid]

is a not popular member likely to be chosen as a mod, with either system?

[*incoherent*]

gigi, i was honestly thinking the same thing, i just wanted to know how other people felt.

i like the old way better as well.

[Fabio.]

Pros

+ Nominations = good. I like how some people who might have been to afraid or shy or modest to actually apply were nominated. Myself for example: I didn't think I was qualified because of my post count (which was about 200 at the time), but I saw that the mods were willing to overlook that because of my previous account.

+ Member Discusson = okay. I liked being able to give feedback and hear what other people's positions on certain members were.

Cons

- Member Discussion = okay. But what I didn't like was how, in some cases, if you had more friends, you got more feedback, and you were more likely to be considered.

- No applications = bad. A lot of people were nominated and never knew it because they were away, or nominated and never wanted the position. If there was a way to combine nomination and application, that would be the best way. I think there needs to be a way to show the staff, "look, I'm interested in being on the staff team and this is why."

Meli's two cents.

[Gigi]

is a not popular member likely to be chosen as a mod, with either system?

If the member's not popular, maybe not for People Staff. By not popular I assume you mean that not everyone knows the person, not that everyone hates the member. If the member's not well known, it doesn't mean he/she won't be active and won't do a good job, especially for the design positions.

A non-popular, QUALIFIED member is much more likely to be chosen as a mod in the apps system.

[sadolakced acid]

^ however, (certain) mods are who ultimately choose. if they don't know the person, then how likely is it that they're chosen?

i agree that people who want to be staff should be able to say so, and receive consideration.

what i suggest is that such members may write out a short application in a thread, which each mod can read and decide if they wish to nominate the members.

the mods can review the member's past posts to "get to know them", if they're not certain.

[Gigi]

That's what I hate about debating with you, Justin, you always have to make explain myself so clearly, multiple times. yeah jk.

what i meant by "not knowing" is not knowing that person in a friendship situation. there are some people on cb that aren't generally known of, friendship/clique-wise, but are helpful and contribute to createBlog anyway. obviously if the person is just a newbie who hasn't posted a lot won't be considered.

[sadolakced acid]

^ however, a newbie who hasn't posted a lot isn't likely to meet the requirements, are they?

although, yes, i do agree that generally, if you know someone, like with inside jokes and convos and all, then that can't be emulated by simply reading back posts, but reading back posts can help give a general idea of a person.

i'm sure mods wouldn't be like... they're not my friend, so although their posts seem quite intelligent, i don't know them personally and thus will not nominate them.

[*disco infiltrator*]

I visit the Design forums a lot and I don't think anyone was overlooked. There's just not that many people coming out of there.

I think it went fine. I don't see anything wrong with it. Yes, if you're not very known, you will get overlooked. It's somewhat of a popularity contest, but not necessarily "popularity" - just being known. If you don't stand out from the rest, or put yourself out there, you can't blame us for not recognizing you. I think this is better. It's what I wanted, personally. I want to be able to pick people off the top of my head that really stand out to me, and have. Those are the people that deserve it.

No mod should be so little known that mods can't think of who they are, or see them enough on a daily basis to think of them. We had the noms open for a long time; if someone had come to our mind later, we could have edited our posts and included them.

Gigi, I don't think your point is very valid - I don't think Libertie or Julie are that well-known by people, personally. No one has to know anyone else personally. As long as they stand out, they'll be recognized.

[Mulder]

we all know that i wasnt particularly happy with this, though there were some good things about it.


pros:

nominations. i liked the fact that people were nominated. i would have never considered myself qualified to apply for xanga staff...

discussions: i liked that the community was able to input on who was nominated


cons:

not everyone qualified was nominated. at least with applications the mods would know who was interested. people nominated may not want to be staff anyway.

i personally would never have applied for xanga staff. i wanted people staff. but i was nominated for xanga staff only.

not all mods did this, but some did nominated their friends. not that toya isnt qualified, but she was nominated by many people who were her friends and said that they didnt visit the design forums enough to make a decision about it. (i think toya is absolutely qualified, shes just an example. replace toya with "bob".)

member discussion: the community wasnt very active. the people that posted there were mostly people who were nominees, not the rest of the community. also, a lot of the people that werent nominees mentioned their friends.


eh.

my two cents.

[KissMe2408]

i'm sure mods wouldn't be like... they're not my friend, so although their posts seem quite intelligent, i don't know them personally and thus will not nominate them.

Well, i know this might sound weird, but I didn't really know Michael (Mipadi) too well, I just knew that EVERYONE was talking about him and talking about him joining the staff team. I think I was one of the only mods that didn't nominate him. I recognized his avatar quite well, but for some reason it didn't click for him to be a mod. Then after seeing all this buzz about him, I went to read his posts to learn more about him in general. And I thought he was a really intellegent guy, but it does take more the intelligence to become a good staff member. I just didn't see him around too often. That's one of the problems I see with this system, Sometimes the really good people go unnoticed to some mods (for example the whole michael thing to me). He posts more in the debate and technology sections, where I don't go as often as other parts of CB.
lol well my point is:

Pros- i very much like the discussion thread in the lounge. I thought it was helpful for both the staff and the members. Plus the members got to say more on who they think is qualified to become a staff member

Cons- People can go unnoticed for a staff position. (I'll use the example of Michael again here. Oh, and even though he was still choosen for being a mod, and had a bunch of nominations, it still can happen, you know. It happened to me. Also, i'm sure there were some people that went unnoticed, especially in the design staff/xanga/myspace area. When I had to list nominees i think i spent an hour looking for people who were qualified and had good attitudes. I think half of them didn't even accept the nomination or didn't even know they were. I'm bound to have missed a bunch, It's hard weeding through people sometimes, especially in the design staff)
-there are no applications. I think it is important that the members write down why they want to be part of the staff, how they would contribute, etc. Gigi had a good way of putting it.

I'm sure there are more pro's and con's . Those are just the ones off the top of my head

[*disco infiltrator*]

member discussion: the community wasnt very active. the people that posted there were mostly people who were nominees, not the rest of the community. also, a lot of the people that werent nominees mentioned their friends.

That was only there because a while ago, some members complained about there not being any community input. Personally, I don't think it should've been there at all. But, it's the members' fault if they don't use what they asked for.

If everyone was against this way of hiring, why didn't anyone say anything before we did it, and why did the committee vote yes?...It seems like some of you just don't like the system because you feel as if you were overlooked.

[Mulder]

member discussion: the community wasnt very active. the people that posted there were mostly people who were nominees, not the rest of the community. also, a lot of the people that werent nominees mentioned their friends.

That was only there because a while ago, some members complained about there not being any community input. Personally, I don't think it should've been there at all. But, it's the members' fault if they don't use what they asked for.

If everyone was against this way of hiring, why didn't anyone say anything before we did it, and why did the committee vote yes?...It seems like some of you just don't like the system because you feel as if you were overlooked.

i completely agree. i never supported the idea of a community discussion thread to begin with. but it didnt serve any purpose. everything went on backstage..without much community input.

[*disco infiltrator*]

We used the community input, but they basically said the same things we & the other mods did. I don't know why it was SUCH a big deal to have community input before..

[KissMe2408]

i completely agree. i never supported the idea of a community discussion thread to begin with. but it didnt serve any purpose. everything went on backstage..without much community input.

^I've always thought the community discussion thread was just to let some members have their say about who they supported, I never thought it to have that much of a purpose. Community input was just a nice thing to have, and just let the members voice if they wanted to. If the community discussion thread wasn't there I wouldn't mind, If the community thread IS there then i wouldn't mind either.

If everyone was against this way of hiring, why didn't anyone say anything before we did it, and why did the committee vote yes?...It seems like some of you just don't like the system because you feel as if you were overlooked.

Re-read this topic.
http://www.createblog.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=109893
I think there was 3 nays to have it be the way it is now, most everyone wanted it this way. I remember liking the original way of hiring. I actually think this system overlooks people more then before.

[*disco infiltrator*]

It overlooks those that deserve to be overlooked. They're overlooked because they don't stand out. They don't make an impression. Mods SHOULD stand out as good, solid leaders.

[KissMe2408]

^yah i agree mods should stand out to be good leaders. But sometimes people do get overlooked when they are exceptionally qualified. Hey, you're talking to the girl that overlooked Michael, as I said in the post above. And you can easily overlook someone who would be a good staff member for myspace or xanga.
What i liked about the applications is that it gave everyone a fair chance, and even if that person didn't make it, atleast people recognize that you would like to be a part of the team and are intersted in helping out. That helps especially when the next hiring comes around, and that person might be reconsidered.

[Gigi]

Sammi, I think my point is extremely valid. I really don't think it's about getting SOME of the good candidates, I think it's about getting ALL of them. The point being, Julie and Dani are great for the job, and they WERE noticed, but I feel that there are many other people that would want to and deserved to be noticed, too.

With apps, all that are interested will, like Suzzette said, at least be considered, whereas in the nominations system they may not. Of course, they could always nag a moderator to nominate but that sort of defeats the purpose? Wouldn't we better off with an endorsement system if that were to happen? And if we really, strongly wanted someone to be modded in the apps system, but the person didn't apply, we could always just ask them if they wanted to or not. If the person refuses, that only means that he/she is really not interested. Either way it works.

[*incoherent*]

thats what i was talking to meli about. this system just seems to be implying endorsements, which we did away with because they were serving much of a purpose.

and like katie said, i had no clue who kristina was at all until she was nominated.

[Heathasm]

pros: the nominations were great because people that wouldnt of normally applied for staff and were very qualified got the right positions

cons: the community input really wasnt there. i would of liked there to be a set number of mods we were going to hire for each staff position and have the community choose out of the nominees with that set number for each position and the votes be manually tallied up with no more changes from the mods

//edit
to my cons
i also think that datru katalyst was modded over friendship and wasnt looked at the same way as the other mods were

[sadolakced acid]

but there is more than one mod.

so if someone states they want to be nominated; some won't think they should, but there would be some who find the person worthy to be a mod, don't you think?

[*disco infiltrator*]

Who do you guys think was overlooked?...

I mean..we all got to nominate. If not one person nominated someone you thought was qualified...obviously they weren't. Out of like, what, 30 mods, and not one noticed them?..I don't think they would have been cut out for the job then anyway.

If you can't even catch the eye of at least 1 out of 30 pretty active people, you shouldn't be a mod. Then, you're not standing out enough.

[*mzkandi*]

I dont give a flying pigs which way its done as long and community and mod input is apart of the process! ( )

I remember when the modding process was being voted on (this whole nomination thing) I voted nay with my reasoning being:

I'm in favor of a somewhat more traditonal way. As far as all qualifed members applying (via submission of application). Then have a community thread so the community can have a say in who they should be a mod (input) and well as one backstage for mods to voice their opinion. The feedback from both sides would be taken in consideration for by the admins and head staff on who they think should be hired. It opens it up for more variety of people to apply so no one is overlooked, at least, thats what I think.

However, after trying out the nominations I dont think its bad either. I mean some of you are saying people may be overlooked but just because you overlook someone doesnt mean another mod will. For example, someone may nominate someone that another mod may think is not all that qualfied but are still both looked at equally. I can't say much on the community part but our backstage dicussions on each nominee were very in-depth. And if the nominees that arent hired, we can still keep and eye out on their progress for another hiring.

i personally would never have applied for xanga staff. i wanted people staff. but i was nominated for xanga staff only.

Hrmm....if you were unhappy with your nomination and knew deep down you really didnt want an Xanga position but People you shouldnt have accepted your nomination. That goes for anyone else with if this nomination thing continues.

i also think that datru katalyst was modded over friendship and wasnt looked at the same way as the other mods were

I really do respect that that is your opinion but have you ever thought that maybe he just as qualfied as applicants? And even if you dont, I dont think we should call out new hirees...we are dicussing the nomination process, not individuals who had no say in whether or not they got hired. If you think that is the case then I think it would best to take it up with all those involved in the final hiring dicussion privitely.

Oh and one more thing I would like to add. If we are to continue this nomination process I think we should make it mandatory that all staff p/m those that they nominated that way they are informed of their nomination.

And yeah, I see the valid arguments for both sides.

[Mulder]

Oh and one more thing I would like to add. If we are to continue this nomination process I think we should make it mandatory that all staff p/m those that they nominated that way they are informed of their nomination.

i completely agree.

poor jason..he didnt know he was nominated.