Environment vs. Economy Options

[*Kathleen*]

All right, so since I want to see a different topic out there...this one's from February's Lincoln-Douglas topic:

Resolved: A government's obligation to protect the environment ought to take precedence over its obligation to promote economic development.

I'm on the negative side for this, seeing that only by providing a healthy, stable economy can you be able to help the environment. The products of a good economy are what help improve the environment.

Haha don't worry...I have more points...I've researched both sides to this, so bring it on.

[WildGriffin]

yeah,economy first. but the problem is that the struggle for a great economy could destroy our enviroment, which is somehow bad for all of us kids that are indoors 90% of the day.

[Spirited Away]

This is one of the hardest debates to choose a side for.

I suppose the environment is more important because it's already doing so poorly. The most polluted cities in the world are concentrated in America.

The economy is important, but without health (from clean air and water) how do you suppose we'd run our businesses?

Enviroment came first, as in it supports life in the begining (evolutionary speaking), therefore it should be our priority to keep it clean. Religiously speaking, wouldn't it be wonderful if Earth's environment can be like Paradise's?

[xjjajeengx]

Well, I'm not a outdoor kind of person, but i feel that we already have so much polution and crap because of economy, industry, etc... I think enviornment should be first. I mean, what if the human race dies because of a lack of good enviornment? True, economy effects mankind greatly, and the system is awesome and yea... But, too many people dont go out these days and i think that its partly the economy to blame for this because of all the new technology and stuff coming out. Also, economy goes down but it can always go back up. As for enviornment, once you ruin it, it takes so long and so much hard work to make it fresh and clean again. Also, running down trees for the economy really has an impact on our lives because sooner or later, it will cause the temperatures to rise and all that other junk that comes along with bad enviornment. This is only my opinion tho.

^^ wow im scared to think of what kathleen is going to say. I've noticed that she is like a crazy debater who has her facts straight.

[*NatiMarie*]

Good topic Kathleen. I serioulsy don't even know what I would choose. The economy is important because we greatly depend on it, but the environment is also important because if we disregard the importance of it, we can be left in shambles. I don't know what I would choose, I'll get back on that

--Undecisive Natalie

[*Kathleen*]

i feel that we already have so much polution and crap because of economy, industry, etc... I think enviornment should be first. I mean, what if the human race dies because of a lack of good enviornment?

Hehe (I'll be nice) more people die from living in poverty because they're government has an unstable economy opposed to how many people actually die from pollution-related causes.

But, too many people dont go out these days and i think that its partly the economy to blame for this because of all the new technology and stuff coming out.

Well, there are also new studies and medical things and whatnot that arise from the good economy.

As for enviornment, once you ruin it, it takes so long and so much hard work to make it fresh and clean again.

Hehe are you talking about that little thing called global warming by any chance? It's funny because scientists in the seventies were complaining about global cooling...turns out they were wrong.

Enviroment came first, as in it supports life in the begining

Are we not supposed to utilize it? It's there for us - we need the economy to survive, and we should use it.

[Spirited Away]

Are we not supposed to utilize it? It's there for us - we need the economy to survive, and we should use it.

No it's not wrong to use it... but...

In economics, the most concern is usually efficiency in the allocation of resources. The environment is a resource and therefore must be used efficiently.

Edit:: but so far, we're not doing a very good job of it.

[xjjajeengx]

Hehe (I'll be nice) more people die from living in poverty because they're government has an unstable economy opposed to how many people actually die from pollution-related causes.

still scary... i dont think i was meant to be a debater.
Well, i think that if the people had more land to live off of then they wouldnt die so much. i mean, i think its like government's fault for taking all the land and cutting down the trees to use the land for buisnesses and to get more money. Yes, money is an important factor, but if people were to base their lives on making the enviornment more better instead of being so money hungry and so economy-ish (hahaha no word for that!! ) i think the world would be better... i mean, other country's economies partly are not stable in economy because stable economies (ike that of U.S.) are so power hungry!! We all came from living off of the land, i think that economy and all this complex stuff coming through made the poor and rich gap larger and stuff (okay, and im like "where does this all fit in?" )

Well, there are also new studies and medical things and whatnot that arise from the good economy.

But there are also many deaths that arise from economy; car accidents soared up because we have so many cars and sometimes very careless drivers who cease to understand the need to drive carefully since their insurance covers everything. Once again, the economy's stability is what puts a huge gap between the poor and the rich, and not to mention puts middle class people at a disadvantage...

Hehe are you talking about that little thing called global warming by any chance?  It's funny because scientists in the seventies were complaining about global cooling...turns out they were wrong.

My bad. But it is proven that trees help cool the temperature down. (i think* i heard this from science class)

Oh man i was right!! Kathleen is a crazy debater!! all her facts are like WHOOSH im working on this debate thing so technically im a newb

[stryker76]

Im boarder lined on this one...i mean yeah a good economy is great...but yeah economy destroys the environment....people in the past survived fine be givin back to the environment what they took from it....and learned to ration them selves so the didnt kill ne one thing off totally......and really if the environment goes then there will be no economy because there will be no natrual resources to use....

Oh and on the Global warming thing...yeah its a real thing...just not as it was originally proposed.....today there is Global warming and Ozone Holes.....Global Warming is a really thing CO2 in the Earths atmosphere trapping UV radiation heating the earth a lil bit.....Ozone Layer Depletion is what was debated in the 70's and still is it wasnt wrong but they have also found that it is a natrual cycle in the earths atmosphere....the cycle of it renewing it self cuz Ozone (O3 for those in Chem) is made when O2 is super heated extremely fast....Lightening....so yeah it is all good there....but Global warming is a lil issue still

[tkproduce]

I'd like to share a revelation that I've had during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species. I realized that you're not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You move to an area, and you multiply, and multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet, you are a plague, and we are the cure - Agent Smith in "The Matrix"

[WildGriffin]

I'd like to share a revelation that I've had during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species. I realized that you're not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You move to an area, and you multiply, and multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet, you are a plague, and we are the cure. - Agent Smith in "The Matrix"

I love that quote with a passion. When I first heard it I almost sprang a rubbery one. yeah......

[*Kathleen*]

Oh and on the Global warming thing...yeah its a real thing...just not as it was originally proposed.....today there is Global warming and Ozone Holes.....Global Warming is a really thing CO2 in the Earths atmosphere trapping UV radiation heating the earth a lil bit.....Ozone Layer Depletion is what was debated in the 70's and still is it wasnt wrong but they have also found that it is a natrual cycle in the earths atmosphere....the cycle of it renewing it self cuz Ozone (O3 for those in Chem) is made when O2 is super heated extremely fast....Lightening....so yeah it is all good there....but Global warming is a lil issue still

Hehe I know global warming actually exists - I was simply pointing out how they made such a big deal out of global cooling in the seventies when it turns out to not even be true. With global warming, tests have shown it has risen higher before, when global warming wasn't a threat:

I'd like to share a revelation that I've had during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species. I realized that you're not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You move to an area, and you multiply, and multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet, you are a plague, and we are the cure - Agent Smith in "The Matrix"

Hah...well, even though I know what you're getting at...it's a movie! Besides, we still plant trees and whatnot...we have laws that make sure you don't deplete the environment until it's no longer useable.

[WildGriffin]

we have laws that make sure you don't deplete the environment until it's no longer useable.

To fake the tree huggers into thinking we'd compromise economy for enviroment. Oh, they're tranquil now, but when the hippies learn that their tree planting is futile BAM. all major cities get swamped with smelly hippies "protesting".

[*Kathleen*]

Haha...pft...everyone has to obey the laws!

[tkproduce]

I hope you people know that plants respire (I'm using the biology term. "repire" here does NOT mean "breathe in and out") just like us - they use oxygen to convert glucose into energy and give off carbon dioxide. Especially at night when there is no sunlight, plants behave just like us, taking in oxygen and releasing carbon dioxide. So in effect, planting a tree may not change anything at all - photosynthesis may produce oxygen, but if we compare the volume of oxygen the tree has produced during it's lifetime with the volume of carbon dioxide it produced via respiration and during it's decomposition after it's death, the net difference may be negligible. Significant differences are seen when there are a vast number of plants - like the rainforests.

just leave enough environment so that if we ever do finish our science homework that we can go outside and b-r-e-a-t-h-e

[WildGriffin]

like the rainforests

"f*ck the rainforest"
-Jennifer Aniston, South Park

[*Kathleen*]

Ah, yes, tk - I forgot to mention that, but still...some of those plants are used for scientific studies to create medicines we use today. Also, I think some people are forgetting that the economy doesn't directly involve the environment...you can promote economic development in other ways.

[xjjajeengx]

okay im just lost now. im out of this debate. all i can say is good luck to everyone how is opposing kathleen cause NO ONE can beat her.
i applaud you kathleen. MAN... i ahve debate on frikken MONDAY!!! im sooo going to get an F on this, expecially since we're doing like gay/lesbo marriages, religious blahblah (my topic) social studies importance, "does george bush suck", "budget cuts"

IM SO DEAD!! what sucks moe is that practically the whole frikken class is going against my friend ( her bro is gay) in the gay debate thingy. so im going to fight for her except im not shure what side i would pick... cause honestly i can say that i really dont care... soooo *sigh* i wish i could borrow someone's mouth and brain for a few periods to do this.

[*Kathleen*]

Hehe...aww...you'll do great, Grace! Good luck to you! And you give me too much credit. No one likes this topic much, though. Haha.

[Spirited Away]

I like it , I like things with economics.

[ComradeRed]

Just remember that the Earth has seniority over us and you should be fine .

You're the A-Debater on your team Kath, you should be able to argue that pretty well!

[Spirited Away]

No one replied to me, so I had to re-post..

A thousand apologies.

The evironment is a resource and therefore is considered to have limitations. In economics, all resources are considered scarce and should be allocated efficiently. (one of the ten principles of economics)

So you see, even in economics, the evironment is still extremely important, and there should be used efficiently. So that's how I come to the conclusion that the environment is more important than the economy.

[strice]

being a border line hippie, i choose the environment. there are so many ways to avoid destruction of the environment, it just costs more. i dno't think this is a debate to be won.

[tkproduce]

The human race will self destruct anyway, I think. We'll end up spending all our resources and we'll all die out. Not in the near future, so doesn't really bother me