God Options

[waccoon]

i really see no reason to believe in him. there are so many arguments to his non existence. come on, you religious fanatics. bring it on.

[InfamousOwen]

My own belief is more simple , and yet, more complicated by far. I believe that dragons appeared in the world immediately after theth first reasoning race. I do not credit any god of wizards with their creation, but rather, the basic imagination,wrought of unseen fears, of those first reasoning mortals.
~Drizzit Do'Urden

Ok it may sound like blah blah blah but I think its the same thing for God or Gods depending on your religion. Humans fear to be alone because being alone leaves everything up to chance and in sense that means we are just a lucky mistake. God is the ultimate mystery, next to life after death. So the less answers the better it is because without a god to believe in people have nowhere to put their faith in a lucky chance.

I guess you can say that is my viw on it.

[dukesoccer07]

I'm only going to say one thing on this topic because I have got in on heated discussions that got me kicked off forums...

There is no reason why christians should have blind faith... there have been roman historians who have written down the account of Jesus... They wrote everything that happen... There have been historians during that time that never met Jesus but felt the earth shake and saw the sky get dark the day of the crucifixion... There are so many things in the world that show there is a God... but its up to you to believe it...

[tkproduce]

i really see no reason to believe in him. there are so many arguments to his non existence. come on, you religious fanatics. bring it on.

Until one can discover and prove every mystery there is about this universe, one does not have the right to mock or deny the beliefs of others. No one can prove that God exists, but no one can prove that he doesn't exist either. Then comes the question "what does 'existence' actually mean?" Did a sound that was never heard ever "exist"? Would this Universe "exist" if nothing was intelligent enough to understand it's "existence"? Surely God does exist as long as people believe that he does.

[Winter]

I personally don't believe in God because there's no prove that he exists, to me that is. But for the people who choose to believe, then he does exist.

[triipinfserious]

i agree with Winter ... i don`t believe he exists `cause there`s been no proof ... sorry

[InfamousOwen]

Ok I always take a defensive position so here goes

Things that need to be proved
Love
Wind

Ok those are the two easiest ones to relate what I mean. Neither is tangible, yet you believe in them. Why? cause they are what you feel and that is the only proof that anyone has to either. For some people both of those things are just further proof of god....after all what makes the wind blow? What makes the heart beat faster when seeing someone you love? Probably through out the course of my CB lifetime you will see me quote books a lot. Here is another from Drizzit Do'Urden that I think is relavent to this topic :)

What is it within us, then, that so desperately wants to deny magic and to unravel mystery? Fear, I presume, based on the many uncertainties of life, and the greatest uncertainty of death. Put those fears aside, I say, and live free of them, for if we just step back and watch the truth of the world, we will find that there is indeed magic all about us, unexplainable by numbers and formulas. What is the passion evoked by the stirring speech of the commander before the desperate battle, if not magic? What is the peace that an infant might know in its mother's arms, if not magic? what is love, if not magic?

What we take for granted as everyday happenings can be looked at through another light as magic and yet another as science and yet another as the hand of god/s. Isn't science just another religion anyway with a different type of god?

ok enough of my ramblings

[tkproduce]

I really don't think "Because there is no proof" is a valid reason for not believing in God. Most of science doesn't have a "proof". I'm not saying it's right or wrong to not believe in God, I'm just saying that I want a more convincing reason from the people don't believe in God or some other greater being.

[*Kathleen*]

But tk, there is obvious proof found by scientists of today that evolution is not that far from the truth. Also, how can you credit the intelligence of Romans back then? THEY BURNED DOWN THE GREEK LIBRARY! Heh. Kidding...except...they reall did. Onto my point - they're not as smart as we were today. Those accounts could've been simply minor things...it could've been coincidence that the sky got dark after the crucifixion (this is directed towards duke). Furthermore, scientists have used isotopes to calculate how old the earth truly is - they're saying it's about four and a half billion years old opposed to the Bible's ten thousand years or whatever it was.

[InfamousOwen]

Oh good point Kathleen. Me and my friend from BACK in the day had to argue why Science can not get rid of God for our sunday school teacher cause we both said something dumb to her lol but yea in the end the scripture is vague about the creation of the world. The bible says God created the Earth in seven days..........ok granted this is a bit of a stretch but who is to say what 1 day is to god? I mean our lifetimes could pass in the blink of an eye for someone who can create universes. And as my teahcer said....God works in mysterious ways....so who is to say that science isnt a way for god to console those who don't believe in him but need to believe in something else?


These are just theories of course. There is in the end only one way we will ever know for sure and I am FAR from ready to find out the answer that way.

[*Kathleen*]

Hmm, that's quite true - my biology teacher pointed that out. I don't think anyone said anything about that. Good job. BUT, why didn't they just say four billion years, huh?

[InfamousOwen]

Back in the day a million dollars was a huge sum of money because people just didnt think a billion was a realistic number and that was what a hundred years ago or something little like that.....now imagine over 2000 years ago where the range of living was like 50 years or something like that. Besides they needed a way to make it so people would worship god and if they had to say "And on the 4 billionth year he rested and it was his day" I doubt many people would be anywhere near as religious.


of course it could all be a merchants trick to get people to offer up money and buy things like "Holy" objects. Thats just another theory

[tkproduce]

Scientific proofs are assumptions based on experimental evidence. Further experiments are conducted either to reinforce the evidence for the initial assumption or to find a contradiction to it. Newton's Laws of motion was all there was to physics until Albert Einstein came up with relativity. Newton's Laws are all we need for everyday life, but Einstein's new ideas have given us a new way of understanding phenomena in the universe that Newton's Laws could not explain. The composition of neucleons being quarks, the nuclear strong force, black holes - they're all assumptions based on experimental evidence. There is no concrete "proof" in science. Mathematics is different - mathematical proof is absolute. Once something is proven in math, it never changes.

About evolution, though it is not far from the truth as you say, there are some evidences against it. Humans seem to evolve from certain regions in Africa and at the same time in regions of China. The chances of the same type of species evolving in completely different parts of the world are very slim.

Anyway, "proving" that evolution is true doesn't make a difference to whether God exists or not. Whatever that is written on the Bible is by humans and much of it is just human imagination. The facts are not important - the important thing is the belief that there's something "above" us that is so beautiful that words cannot explain and that someday we can see it.

[InfamousOwen]

Wow that was seriously touching. it all comes down to one word.....Faith....and no matter wether you call your religion christianity,buddism, or science in the end it al revolves around how much faith you put into them

[Spirited Away]

There is no concrete "proof" in science. Mathematics is different - mathematical proof is absolute. Once something is proven in math, it never changes.

I was never good in science, please clear this up for me just a bit: physics use math? If math is absolute, then shouldn't physics be the same?

Or, is it how math is applied that matters?

Um, okay back to topic.

THEY BURNED DOWN THE GREEK LIBRARY! Heh. Kidding...except...they reall did.

*Nods*. Human way of thought was different back then because they did not have the knowledge of science that we have today. If a phenomenon happened thousands of years ago and people thought it was an act of God, who's to say that it wasn't science that caused such phenomenon?

If I go back in time with a flashlight in hand, could I be a messager of God because I can create light with a simple switch? I think people will assume so.

What I mean is: could God be confused with science back then?

[InfamousOwen]

And in a thousand years will the science of today be looked at in the reverse sense. WHo is to say that discoveries today arent the hand of god working in some fashion?

[Spirited Away]

And in a thousand years will the science of today be looked at in the reverse sense. WHo is to say that discoveries today arent the hand of god working in some fashion?

And who's to say that these things called science, are actually science, and God had nothing to do with it?

I'm confused.

[LQ_Darksoul]

I'm going off a little on this subject...So bare with me.

Most people believe the universe is endless. An infinite amount of space and time. Now, if there is infinity, there will be an infinite amount of possiblities. (This isn't necessarily an alternate universe, but an infinite number of worlds with tiny changes in the(our) universe.) I can only imagine with such an amount of space, that there be a being behind it all. Maybe not a creator, but a being of more power than man could ever posses. Why? Because its in the math. There has to be one of everything, because there is an infinite number of possiblities. Now, it seems strange to say that there is one of everything, but for every thought a person has, I could only imagine somewhere, in the vastness of the infinite universe, there has to be something that is the essence of the formentioned thought. And in theory, if the universe is infinite, and every thought has substance(essence) then there would not be one God, but multiple Gods. In short, I have to believe that there is something/someone else out there, becuase of the infinite possiblities. But then again, you have to believe in infinity before you can believe in anything I just said

[Spirited Away]

Me ME! I believe in infinity. The earth's circular rotation and the circular rotation of other planets around the Sun are examples of infinity, too, I think. What's up with that?

Anyway, as there could be possibility of God's existence because of infinity, there could be a possibility that God does not exist either.

[InfamousOwen]

Thats a really good point also...kind of brings up the books of Myst to mind. If you ever read them that is. But yea math is the only undeniable prove fact........but it was made up by people so even though it is undeniabley 100% proven in the end it is just another theory. But I do agree with you. I just try my best to look at every point of view from all 360%.

[tkproduce]

I was never good in science, please clear this up for me just a bit: physics use math? If math is absolute, then shouldn't physics be the same?

Or, is it how math is applied that matters?

All sciences use mathematics, but they are not the same. Mathematics in physics is used to model the "real" world as best fit as possible so we can have a better understanding of the universe and what goes on around us. However, this model is never perfect and it is the physicists' job to improve on this. Stephen Hawking claims that someone in the near future will be able to find and prove this "perfect model" of the universe. Once that is done, then we might be able to scientifically prove the existence or non-existence of God.

There was a topic about ghosts - do they exist or not? There's experimental evidence that parallel universes may be interacting with each other (electron diffraction expoeriment), but that is just an intelligent assumption made so that the observed phenomena can be explained (i.e. it is a mathematical model trying to "match" the real world). Whether this has anything to do with ghosts, no one knows yet.

What I mean is: could God be confused with science back then?

There's enough things we don't know about this universe today to still believe that God may be responsible for things that happen around us. Not just complicated things such as quantum physics, but we don't understand seemingly simple things like emotions - such as love or hatred. How would science as we know it today explain love? Somethings might be better off not explained at all. It is up to each individual person to believe what he/she wants, but I don't think people that don't believe in God have any grounds to criticise people that do.

[xquizit]

Religion is about having faith, regardless of whether or not there is proof.

[Spirited Away]

Religion is about having faith, regardless of whether or not there is proof.

Right, but not only religion, concepts are about faith as well.

[waccoon]

okay, im gonna start something new. if i go murder some child, why should i have to go to hell for it? after all, god is perfect. god knew that i was going to kill that little kid. if he knew it was going to do it, then i couldn't have possibly changed my mind. if i changed my mind and let the child live, god would have been wrong. and god is perfect. so why should i go to hell for my 'mistakes'? i shouldn't. whoever thought up god should have thought a little harder.

[lilb]

hey nick, this is britt, do you really wanna get me started?