Creating Your Child, how far is too far? Options

[Heewee]

This is a topic that we have been recently discussing in my genetics class...


Recent technology has made it possible for those who can afford to do so to genetically select the gender of their baby:

Many parents desperately wish for that little girl (or boy) they always dreamed of. Now that it is scientifically possible to “sort” the X and Y chromosomes in sperm, The Genetics and IVF Institute is giving parents the power to choose the sex of their next baby. An FDA clinical trial of a sperm-sorting technology called MicroSort can determine the sex, with an 88 percent success rate for females, and 73 percent success for males.

The technology was originally created by the Department of Agriculture to use with livestock. According to a Newsweek article, over 1300 couples have used Microsort’s services since it began its clinical trial in 1995. The process can cost at least $2,500 each attempt, but it varies widely depending on what process is used (IVF, IUI) to achieve the pregnancy.

The ability to choose a baby’s gender opens a big can of moral and ethical worms, says the Newsweek article. “If couples can request a baby boy or girl, what’s next on the slippery slope of modern reproductive medicine? Eye color? Height? Intelligence? Could picking one gender over the other become the 21st century’s form of sex discrimination?”

Genetics is such a fast-changing science that the above article, written just under a year ago, is already outdated. Picking eye color, height, inteligence, and many other traits are available to parents to can afford to do so. This includes, the ability to do away with life-threatening diseases or even simple nuisances, such as wearing glasses. However, should people that have will have perfectly fine babies otherwise be allowed to genetically alter the alleles of their future babies just to change the eye color or hair color? My question to you guys is do you think that this is morally right and what are you reasons for or against your argument?

[*RiC3xBoy*]

Hmm...I actually find it hard to actually choose.....But just for the sake of debate, I will say that is moral because it does not harm anyone. Also reminds of the movie GATTACA which I loved.

[Ington]

Hmm...I actually find it hard to actually choose.....But just for the sake of debate, I will say that is moral because it does not harm anyone. Also reminds of the movie GATTACA which I loved.

Yes, that was an amazing movie. I think this topic is like abortion. People can do what they want, and it depends on their beliefs. You can't say its harming the baby, because its not (unless there are complications). The baby isn't even a fetus when the 'construction' is done on it, so it is nowhere near alive at the time. Its just a possession of the future parents.

[Heewee]

Yes, that was an amazing movie. I think this topic is like abortion. People can do what they want, and it depends on their beliefs. You can't say its harming the baby, because its not (unless there are complications). The baby isn't even a fetus when the 'construction' is done on it, so it is nowhere near alive at the time. Its just a possession of the future parents.

You're right, in some ways it is like abortion. However, if this method of genetic selection because very popular in the future, there will be no such thing as heredity anymore. We will all look the same and that will be very boring. Some people are okay with that, however. I wouldn't want my children to look like everybody else. I want them to be unique plus I want them to carry the family traits on from generation to generation.

[*RiC3xBoy*]

You're right, in some ways it is like abortion. However, if this method of genetic selection because very popular in the future, there will be no such thing as heredity anymore. We will all look the same and that will be very boring. Some people are okay with that, however. I wouldn't want my children to look like everybody else. I want them to be unique plus I want them to carry the family traits on from generation to generation.

Actually are you sure that the parents can pick whatever they want in there child or whatever want that THEY have. For instance, if the mother has blue eyes and the father has hazel, then could the boy/girl have brown eyes?

[technicolour]

...How is that not moral? They choose what they want. We choose whichever chicken we want from the grocery store, right?

Bad example, I know, but...really...how is not not moral?

p.s. Whoever has the gray font, it is incredibly hard to read.

[yummy_delight]

Maybe it's because of my religious beliefs, but there are certain things that should just be left for nature to decide.

It's important for children to have high self esteem, and to feel like they are perfect the way that they are. Imagine being told by your parents, "You know, you were supposed to be a boy. But we wanted a girl, so we made you one." Wouldn't you feel terrible? You would feel like your parents didn't love you the way that you were meant to be born, and that you were inadequate even as a fetus.

With the exception of genetic disorders or illnesses, babies should be kept the way that God made them.

[technicolour]

Maybe it's because of my religious beliefs, but there are certain things that should just be left for nature to decide.

It's important for children to have high self esteem, and to feel like they are perfect the way that they are. Imagine being told by your parents, "You know, you were supposed to be a boy. But we wanted a girl, so we made you one." Wouldn't you feel terrible? You would feel like your parents didn't love you the way that you were meant to be born, and that you were inadequate even as a fetus.

With the exception of genetic disorders or illnesses, babies should be kept the way that God made them.

Hmm.. Good point.

[pandamonium]

if we let this happen society will reach a perfect state. everybody would have the same features generation after generation, only if we would let this occur. Cause once we let people choose the gender of their baby a whole can of possibilities will open.

If we let this happen we would lose certain traits that are hard to find in this world. like people with double joints, people that can do different things than other people, siamese twins. Especially the people that are mongoloid those people usually have unconditional love, they will hug you and love you even if you have wronged them. Who knows we might even lose homosexuality.

All i am saying is that if we are able to choose the gender of our babies research will futher and anything could be possible.

so in my opinion we should not be able to choose our childrens gender, its not right, we should take what life wants to give us.

[PreludeTears]

...How is that not moral? They choose what they want. We choose whichever chicken we want from the grocery store, right?

Bad example, I know, but...really...how is not not moral?

p.s. Whoever has the gray font, it is incredibly hard to read.

True. We are still choosing to give a life and care for it. So it can not be moral. Its not like we are aborting

[technicolour]

so in my opinion we should not be able to choose our childrens gender, its not right, we should take what life wants to give us.

Hm. Plastic surgery anyone?

Oooh. Someone once said, i really can't remember who, that Plastic Surgery isn't right..because you're changing what God gave you.

if we let this happen society will reach a perfect state.

Perfect can mean many things to many different people...

True. We are still choosing to give a life and care for it. So it can not be moral. Its not like we are aborting

I'm sorry but I really dont get that...

[yummy_delight]

if we let this happen society will reach a perfect state.

Or an imperfect one. If this kind of genetic engineering becomes popular among parents, we'd be eliminating genetic variation. We could eventually phase out certain traits that may seem useless to us now, but could ultimately determine our survival, should a disaster happen that could wipe out the human race.

Although this takes it to an extreme, it could still be possible.

True. We are still choosing to give a life and care for it. So it can not be moral. Its not like we are aborting

Sure, the parents are choosing to give a life. But, they are still doing it under CERTAIN CONDITIONS. That, in itself, is unethical.

[technicolour]

Or an imperfect one. If this kind of genetic engineering becomes popular among parents, we'd be eliminating genetic variation. We could eventually phase out certain traits that may seem useless to us now, but could ultimately determine our survival, should a disaster happen that could wipe out the human race.

Although this takes it to an extreme, it could still be possible.

It is possible..damn you're good. Once again, another good point. It could wipe out things...hmm..

[pandamonium]

by perfect i meant that everyone will be physically athletic, academically smart, have no sicknesses, just plain perfect. there will be no variety.

[yummy_delight]

by perfect i meant that everyone will be physically athletic, academically smart, have no sicknesses, just plain perfect. there will be no variety.

I understand that, and the lack of variety was exactly my point.

Less variety=less chance of survival in a world that is constantly changing.

[Olive]

If something horribly went wrong, who is to blame? The engineer, the doctor, or the parents with the handful of cash? The responsibility of modifying someone else's life is not ours to deal with. Our task is simply to reproduce, nothing more.

[*disco infiltrator*]

I don't think they know what the gender of the baby will be when they do this in the first place so the whole "you were supposed to be a boy thing" probably wouldn't happen.

And really people, this happens way more than you think...is it not true that in China, since you are only allowed to have a certain number of kids, many girl children are killed so the family is allowed to have a boy to carry on the family name and whatnot?

It's the same thing, only not killing something. I actually think this way is a lot better in that sense. Besides, yes, it could lead to things that would actually be detremental, but that's not what this is. This is only gender. We can't just keep limiting things because POTENTIALLY something bad might happen. Anything bad can happen in any situation. We are furthering our scientific discoveries that could help or not help in the future. We don't know. All we know is that we ARE learning more. It could be bad, but it could also lead to good.

[Heewee]

I don't think they know what the gender of the baby will be when they do this in the first place so the whole "you were supposed to be a boy thing" probably wouldn't happen.

Actually, we were discussing this in my Genetics class, as I said, and my Genetics teacher said that when they chose specific traits of their child, they go in and alter them....meaning that they are already determined but they take the allele out and alter it and then put it back. So, yes, a boy could be changed to a girl.

[WindSorcerous]

Leave it all alone... Be happy with the baby you give birth too. It's a special gift and it was born a boy or girl for a reason. Don't change fate...

[Ington]

Maybe it's because of my religious beliefs, but there are certain things that should just be left for nature to decide.

It's important for children to have high self esteem, and to feel like they are perfect the way that they are. Imagine being told by your parents, "You know, you were supposed to be a boy. But we wanted a girl, so we made you one." Wouldn't you feel terrible? You would feel like your parents didn't love you the way that you were meant to be born, and that you were inadequate even as a fetus.

With the exception of genetic disorders or illnesses, babies should be kept the way that God made them.

It depends on the parent whether or not the child feels bad about it. It the parents are assholes, thats what will happen. But if they spend so much money to do that, I don't think they'd make their kid feel bad about it.

Or an imperfect one. If this kind of genetic engineering becomes popular among parents, we'd be eliminating genetic variation. We could eventually phase out certain traits that may seem useless to us now, but could ultimately determine our survival, should a disaster happen that could wipe out the human race.

Although this takes it to an extreme, it could still be possible.



Sure, the parents are choosing to give a life. But, they are still doing it under CERTAIN CONDITIONS. That, in itself, is unethical.

Its not wiping out genetic variation. Its just changing it. There isn't going to be a human standard or anything, the parents are going to pick certain details and change them. Its not going to be like in Gattaca. For example, the parents might say "I want my son to have blue eyes", but that doesn't mean that every parent in the world will have sons with blue eyes. It will be to the liking of the parents, not to the liking of humanity.

Also, I think that if parents are given a chance to help their child before its born is pretty ethical. Everyone wants a healthy baby. Just because they're given the option to and take it doesn't mean its unethical. They're able to take such a large burden as a new baby, so really, the scale tilts towards them.

by perfect i meant that everyone will be physically athletic, academically smart, have no sicknesses, just plain perfect. there will be no variety.

Would it be so horrible that no one would be dying of diseases? So horrible that there won't be any more idiots left and no obese lards in McDonalds?

I guess it would be, because you know, we as much variation as possible.

[*disco infiltrator*]

Actually, we were discussing this in my Genetics class, as I said, and my Genetics teacher said that when they chose specific traits of their child, they go in and alter them....meaning that they are already determined but they take the allele out and alter it and then put it back. So, yes, a boy could be changed to a girl.

Ok, well, I doubt the parents would be that mean to their child..if they are, then they are, but that's not due to the genetic alteration. They would have been mean to their child had they genetically altered them or not.

How about my other points?...

[*xcaitlinx*]

wow...this is kinda funny because we were discussing this in lab biology and i was thinking about creating a topic on it.

and i think that it's immoral for many reasons. first off---it's unnatural. i think it's insane how you can distribute specific chromosomes (sp?) and decide whether you want your baby to be a boy or girl. there is always a risk of complications...AND you should love your baby no matter what sex it is.

[yummy_delight]

Its not wiping out genetic variation. Its just changing it. There isn't going to be a human standard or anything, the parents are going to pick certain details and change them. Its not going to be like in Gattaca. For example, the parents might say "I want my son to have blue eyes", but that doesn't mean that every parent in the world will have sons with blue eyes. It will be to the liking of the parents, not to the liking of humanity.

Okay, it wouldn't be doing away with genetic variation because the parents would have the choice of which traits they'd want to change. But that doesn't change the fact that we would be customizing HUMAN BEINGS, not cars or homes. Nature made us a certain way for a reason. Although we have the ability, what right do we have to change the way that people were meant to be, unless doing so would change a potentially sick baby into a healthy one?

[*RiC3xBoy*]

wow...this is kinda funny because we were discussing this in lab biology and i was thinking about creating a topic on it.

and i think that it's immoral for many reasons. first off---it's unnatural. i think it's insane how you can distribute specific chromosomes (sp?) and decide whether you want your baby to be a boy or girl. there is always a risk of complications...AND you should love your baby no matter what sex it is.

What exactly does naturality have to do with morals? The only thing people are changing are the physical features of people. I personally feel that it doesn't affect your morality.

[technicolour]

What exactly does naturality have to do with morals? The only thing people are changing are the physical features of people. I personally feel that it doesn't affect your morality.

I agree..

Naturality is different..

I wear makeup...and that's not natural..so, in your words, it's considered immoral...?