Abortion Options

[sadolakced acid]

right...

so, all pregnant women should be arrested for holding someone against thier will?

pregnant women should have to buy two tickets to everything?

[Paradox of Life]

i agree that if a woman has numerous abortions, she really needs to find another method of birth control

Um... a woman can't have numerous abortions.

Myth: Abortion bans won’t harm women’s health.

Fact: Abortion bans gravely endanger women’s health.

It's not something you want to do. And it's costly as well. It's not like, "Oh I had sex and now I'm pregnant. Let's get an abortion!"

[Spirited Away]

there are women who choose to do stupid things during pregnancy and do not have miscarriages. for example, there are smokers and alcoholics who successfully deliver their babies. while the health of these babies are in question, the mothers do not suffer miscarriage. anyway, if smokers and alcoholics who have miscarriges are the types of neglect you're comparing abortion to, i have this to say.

yes, those kinds of miscarriages are results of neglect because, obviously, these mothers do not care for their fetus. so these kinds of mothers ARE the same as those who have multiple abortions because they do not care to have a child.

this makes your original point moot, in my humble opinion.

for a grown person, family members can seek justice for them after their deaths. we thought if banning adoption acknowledged that the fetus was a being with rights, then after that, family members could seek justice for the lost fetus.

i would not agree to such a law, however, if that is the case, are you saying that you'd condone women who have multiple abortions because they're sex addicts? in other words, morally, would you consider it not a bad thing that a woman is given the freedom to abort babies, and abuse that freedom?

though i lean towards pro-choice and can understand where you're coming from, not putting some kind of limit to abortions would mean we condone a culture of irresponsibility.

right...
so, all pregnant women should be arrested for holding someone against thier will?
pregnant women should have to buy two tickets to everything?

if a pregnant woman is murdered, it's possible to charge a killer with double homicide and win.

[sadolakced acid]

^

which is bunk in my opinion.

at most, manslaughter on the feotus. because, what if you just thought the woman was fat?

the rights of a feotus should not be equal to the rights of a full human being, because it is not a full human being.

[Spirited Away]

yea.. that i can agree to. but there was a case where a pregnant woman was raped and shot mulitiple times her own home and died... for me, double homicide sounds right.

well, fetal homicide laws sound right to me, too.

[Comptine]

Um... a woman can't have numerous abortions.

during an abortion debate, a classmate revealed that her mother had eight abortions before she finally decided to have children. eight is actually a pretty big number.

[ComradeRed]

I'm pro-choice, but I do support fetal manslaughter (unless it was intentional to kill the fetus, then homicide) laws.

I'm pro-choice because the fetus doesn't have an innate right to it's mother's body space--the mother is the only person that should have the right to remove the fetus.

[*kryogenix*]

Are there statistics to show that rates of sexual intercourse have increased directly as a cause of the legalization of abortion?

    * 25.5% – Want to postpone childbearing
    * 21.3% – Cannot afford a baby
    * 14.1% – Has relationship problem or partner does not want pregnancy
    * 12.2% – Too young; parent(s) or other(s) object to pregnancy
    * 10.8% – Having a child will disrupt education or job
    *  7.9% – Want no (more) children
    *  3.3% – Risk to fetal health
    *  2.8% – Risk to maternal health
    *  2.1% – Rape, incest, other

If abortion was made illegal except for the last three, I don't think it would be unreasonable to think people would have less sex in order to get the outcome they want.

Again (for probably the 10th time), I will state that people make mistakes and accidents happen. I'm not going to say it again. Read the examples I've given in my previous posts.

Again, I will state that these mistakes and accidents are inexcusable. If you get drunk and get pregnant, you made a bad decision. Either that, or you got raped, Honk Honk!(Just wanted to inject a little humor) If you make a mistake, why should the baby pay for it with its life?

And no, I've never heard of a 'partial birth abortion'.

Oh. It's pretty barbaric. Before the baby is delivered, they cut its head open, and suck the brains out with a vacuum. Since it's still in the womb, by your logic, the mother should be able to perform a partial birth abortion.

Then you might as well make alcohol illegal and might as well make having sex illegal if you want to be so absolutely safe. I'm sure you would enjoy having America represent freedom in such a great way wink.gif.

Either that, or we could trust the people and hope that they make the right choice and not have sex when they can't handle the responsibility. Abortions give them an easy way out of that responsibility, at the expense of the baby.

I'm reading what you're saying (hence me quoting what you say), it's just maybe I'm not articulating my answers perfectly.

[Paradox of Life]

Again, I will state that these mistakes and accidents are inexcusable. If you get drunk and get pregnant, you made a bad decision.

Humans aren't all responsible creatures. Forgive them for not being perfect. They don't want to get an abortion; they just find it necessary. It puts their lives in grave danger, so why would they do it? It's not an easy choice to make. To have a live baby and let it suffer or a dead baby without pain or love. I personally would rather be dead than to live with a mother that couldn't take care of me.

Either that, or you got raped, Honk Honk!(Just wanted to inject a little humor) If you make a mistake, why should the baby pay for it with its life?

That Doug thing was really random. Anyway, the baby can't FEEL yet. It's not actually losing anything or gaining everything. If anything, the mother has to suffer with the burden of having to abort their child. Isn't that enough of a punishment? They're terminating a life for the good of themselves and the child. Is that so absolutely immoral?

Oh. It's pretty barbaric. Before the baby is delivered, they cut its head open, and suck the brains out with a vacuum. Since it's still in the womb, by your logic, the mother should be able to perform a partial birth abortion.

Ouch. I think maybe they should use a method a bit more .. humane. I would not like to see the brains being sucked out of my baby.

Either that, or we could trust the people and hope that they make the right choice and not have sex when they can't handle the responsibility. Abortions give them an easy way out of that responsibility, at the expense of the baby.

It's not an easy way. Your body is thrown extremely off balance by removing something a great fraction of your nutrients is going to. It puts you in risk of disease, malnutrition and death. It's not something you want to do and shouldn't be something that's easily considered. Abortion should be legal, safe and rare.

I'm reading what you're saying (hence me quoting what you say), it's just maybe I'm not articulating my answers perfectly.

Same here, sorry. I tend to be a bit narrow-minded in debate.

[Spirited Away]

Humans aren't all responsible creatures. Forgive them for not being perfect. They don't want to get an abortion; they just find it necessary. It puts their lives in grave danger, so why would they do it? It's not an easy choice to make. To have a live baby and let it suffer or a dead baby without pain or love. I personally would rather be dead than to live with a mother that couldn't take care of me.

not all find it a necessity. more find it a convenience more than those who needs it. those who are irresponsible enough to find it a convenience put a bad light on all who needs it. again, if we condone abortion because it's a convenience, we condone irresponsibility, one of the worse kinds, in my opinion.

[Paradox of Life]

not all find it a necessity. more find it a convenience more than those who needs it. those who are irresponsible enough to find it a convenience put a bad light on all who needs it. again, if we condone abortion because it's a convenience, we condone irresponsibility, one of the worse kinds, in my opinion.

Again, how is it a convienence if it puts your life in danger? People aren't going to just lightly make that choice. Not only does it physically put your life in danger, but it leaves terrible memories of having your own child killed. You don't want to live with that burden on your shoulders. It is a necessity if you choose to get an abortion. If it isn't a necessity, I'm sure you'd choose to keep it alive and do your best in nurturing it.

[*disco infiltrator*]

  * 25.5% – Want to postpone childbearing
    * 21.3% – Cannot afford a baby
    * 14.1% – Has relationship problem or partner does not want pregnancy
    * 12.2% – Too young; parent(s) or other(s) object to pregnancy
    * 10.8% – Having a child will disrupt education or job
    *  7.9% – Want no (more) children
    *  3.3% – Risk to fetal health
    *  2.8% – Risk to maternal health
    *  2.1% – Rape, incest, other

The only one I can see as a "convenience" is "Having a child will disrupt education or job" which isn't so much convenience as it changes the path of their life. (They would have to quit their job or schooling, in turn, disrupting the baby's well-being as well.)

[*mipadi*]

If abortion was made illegal except for the last three, I don't think it would be unreasonable to think people would have less sex in order to get the outcome they want.

Not necessarily less sex--they could still use birth control. I think that very few people use abortion as birth control, in that they think, "I'll have sex now, because if I get pregnant, it's okay--I can just have an abortion." That's why I argue that the legalization of abortion has not made rates of sexual intercourse go up significantly, nor would prohibiting it make the rates go down significantly.

[sadolakced acid]

^ why not just tax abortions to death then?

5000 bucks per abortion, i trust no one's going to want to have one every year.

have insurance only cover cases of rape or health of mother/feotus.

would generate a nice bit of revenue to actually teach kids what condoms are in sex ed.

because of the bush administration's policies, a generation of kids are growing up with a hazy idea of what a contraceptive is.

this propoganda- which i recieved- mentions contraceptives only to debunk them. it states that condoms are useless against STDs like AIDs, where experience has proven that condoms are responsible for the slow of spread of AIDs and other STDs.

if you're going to make abortions inaccesible, you have to make contraceptives accecable.

[ComradeRed]

Taxing abortions actually isn't a bad idea. Mississippi actually does it.

The only problem is, then people move to other states to get the abortions, weakening your state's healthcare system.

[sadolakced acid]

ahh.

and if it's nationwide, then people would just go out of country.

but then the responsibility is off of the american government and people's conciousness.

[ComradeRed]

Well, if it's nationwide, it's often cheaper to pay the tax than go out of the country. If it's illegal, the wealthy will go out of the country--and the poor will get backroom abortions.

It's much easier and much, much cheaper to hop in your car and drive from Mississippi to Tennessee than buy a plane ticket, file immigration and customs papers, get your visas, wait three weeks, and then fly to Japan.

[Spirited Away]

Again, how is it a convienence if it puts your life in danger? People aren't going to just lightly make that choice. Not only does it physically put your life in danger, but it leaves terrible memories of having your own child killed. You don't want to live with that burden on your shoulders. It is a necessity if you choose to get an abortion. If it isn't a necessity, I'm sure you'd choose to keep it alive and do your best in nurturing it.

... am i talking about life and death situations? no. i've been saying the same thing for the last twenty or something pages of this debate. if anyone cares to hear my case, i've said all that i can say about abortion just a few pages back. convenience refers to those who choose multiple abortions as conveniences. tell me you don't think that a woman having an abortion for the 3rd time because she likes f**king around is not having it because of convenience. please excuse the language but i think the word applies quite well to what i'm conveying.

[Paradox of Life]

... am i talking about life and death situations? no. i've been saying the same thing for the last twenty or something pages of this debate. if anyone cares to hear my case, i've said all that i can say about abortion just a few pages back. convenience refers to those who choose multiple abortions as conveniences. tell me you don't think that a woman having an abortion for the 3rd time because she likes f**king around is not having it because of convenience. please excuse the language but i think the word applies quite well to what i'm conveying.

Okay, I don't exactly know what you mean and I'm afraid I'm misinterpreting what you're saying, but firstly, a woman can't have 3 abortions and very few if any already have. It is way too costly and dangerous and I don't personally think that's a convenience. Secondly, abortions never were a convenience nor will they ever be. If anything, they are an inconvenience because of the reasons I've stated before. What exactly are you trying to convey? Because it seems I'm just repeating myself. Sorry.

[Spirited Away]

Okay, I don't exactly know what you mean and I'm afraid I'm misinterpreting what you're saying, but firstly, a woman can't have 3 abortions and very few if any already have. It is way too costly and dangerous and I don't personally think that's a convenience. Secondly, abortions never were a convenience nor will they ever be. If anything, they are an inconvenience because of the reasons I've stated before. What exactly are you trying to convey? Because it seems I'm just repeating myself. Sorry.

are you serious? i personally talked to and know through friends a handful of women who have had more than 2 abortions either because they don't like to use condoms or too stupid to use any other form of contraceptive. whether or not the the method of abortion is legal, i do not know or care to know. that's just me alone.

as for what i'm trying say... i've been saying it since page 2 of this thread.

[*disco infiltrator*]

Hum, I'm gonna make a reference back to that post I made about how the law can't be case sensitive....Y'all should go back and read that.

And more than 2 abortions should be outlawed..I think everyone can agree with that. Why would anyone want any more than that other than the fact that they're just too stupid to stop getting pregnant, accidentally or not?

[sadolakced acid]

george bush wants more babies.

his administration has made federal science committies say abortions cause breast cancer, which they don't

AND

his administration forced the CDC to remove all infomation about condoms from thier web site.

source:time magazine

whichleads me to believe that bush wants more babies.

[*disco infiltrator*]

So he can kill them with the death penalty!

It's a cycle.

[Paradox of Life]

Abortions cause breat cancer! No wonder George W. Bush doesn't want to have an abortion! [/sarcasm]

Anyway, I still stand at abortion being legal, safe and RARE

[gotblog4me?]

george bush wants more babies.

his administration has made federal science committies say abortions cause breast cancer, which they don't

AND

his administration forced the CDC to remove all infomation about condoms from thier web site.

source:time magazine

whichleads me to believe that bush wants more babies.

Um, first of all what's wrong with more babies? you act like it's a bad thing... second of all, I'm totally against all kinds of contraceptives.... don't get me started on that issue because I don't know to much abut it, but I am against it (even condoms).

Finally, I think that that post ^^^ was totally off topic (sadolakced) b/c we aren't debating whther or not Bush wants more babies, we're debating over whether abortion is good or bad. and what it comes down to is that you're killing a human being. THat's bad.