school uniforms Options

[sadolakced acid]

Actually, I think it's just the opposite--uniforms can teach kids what is appropriate to wear in a formal or semi-formal setting (such as an office) because the uniforms themselves demonstrate what is expected of children (and thus adults) to wear.

in that case, in order for me to be sucessful in calculus, i should have my calculus homework done for me?

[*mipadi*]

in that case, in order for me to be sucessful in calculus, i should have my calculus homework done for me?

That is such a non sequitur that you just made every dead logician do a 360 in their coffin. I don't even know how to respond, because that doesn't even make a bit of sense.

Uniforms are like teaching calculus: you're not doing work for the students, you are showing them how to do it for themselves. So no, your statement does not follow at all.

[Spirited Away]

This could just be at my school, but uniforms don't prevent bullying, teenage depression, cliques, they prevent nothing at my school, they just put clothes on us that's all, it may be different at other schools though. And I am not a bully if that's what you're getting at, I'm just saying that at my own school the uniforms don't change or prevent anything....understand?? And we do have jean days every once in awhile (at least once a month, sometimes every friday) so you aren;t even being prevented from wearing your own clothes...trust me peole know who you are.

...

Have you ever thought about uniforms not preventing the things you mentioned because, oh I don't know, uniforms weren't meant prevent everything in life? I know this is a new concept to you so lets take it easy. Oh, and lets read the thread, too, because I have alrady mentioned the things you brought up. I mean, shoot, by your standards you and the rest of the world should get free cars or free lunches for the rest of your life for wearing uniforms. Heck, maybe wearing a uniform should save your life. Obviously, I'm being sarcastic. Listen, you can't prevent all the melodrama that goes on in school, nothing can, and surely uniforms can't. BUT, even though it doesn't prevent everything, it does prevent, or lessen, some things, which is as good as it gets.

I'm saying that people experience ONE less way of discrimination/judgement from their peers when they wear uniforms.

Instead of "way of discrimination", replace the words with "reason to bully", "reason to be depressed", "reason for cliques". If you still don't see the point, try reading the thread because I've explained it only on every other page for the last 16 pages. Thanks.

And the bit about people knowing who I am, that's just bull. I think you meant, people stereotype me into who they think I am.

[sadolakced acid]

That is such a non sequitur that you just made every dead logician do a 360 in their coffin. I don't even know how to respond, because that doesn't even make a bit of sense.

Uniforms are like teaching calculus: you're not doing work for the students, you are showing them how to do it for themselves. So no, your statement does not follow at all.

i believe the arguement was that uniforms teach children how to dress appropriatly by making sure they never have to choose what they wear to school.

[*mipadi*]

No, the argument was that uniforms teach kids how to dress appropriately by demonstrating to them what appropriate dress is, just as a student is taught calculus by being demonstrated the appropriate way to solve calculus problems.

[latinprep12]

Well i like them alot..I went to a private school and it looked like the same clothes they had in brittney spears first video..., but we had a forest green..guys had the polo's with slacks and the girls had the polo's with the skirts.....it liked it alot..it keeps you from deciding alot with your closet...well thats really it

[mzislandpinay]

i don't think so.. cuz it takes away kids express of creativity through the way they dress and takes out there indiviualities

uniform= NO creativity

[latinprep12]

i don't think so.. cuz it takes away kids express of creativity through the way they dress and takes out there indiviualities

uniform= NO creativity

your 110% correct thats one thing i hated, going shooping and buying nice clothes and well i would love to show everyone...yeah you got a point


[ mzislandpinay is so smart]

[Spirited Away]

For the last time, PLEASE READ THE THREAD.

How many times do I have to say the argument that uniforms take away creativity is absolute BULLSHIT? If I have to say it one more time, people will get an automatic verbal warning. I'm sorry, but ONE OF THE RULES of debate is TO READ the thread. I mean, even quickly skimming what people wrote before you will save us the trouble of reading through this lame argument that's repeated ON EVERY page of this thread.

Please, Please, PLEASE do us this favor.

IF YOU'RE NOT GOING TO FOLLOW THE RULES, DO NOT POST IN DEBATE.


I don't know about you guys, but the "smart" thing to do would have been to read the thread and NOT repeat arguments. I really don't mean to hurt anyone's feelings, but respect works both ways.

From the first five pages:

To those who are saying that uniforms take away indepence/uniqueness/creativitiy:
Creativity comes from the your inner self. If you are truly a creative person, you'll learn to express yourself through other means.

How does wearing uniforms take away independence? Just because you're wearing the same thing as the person next to you doesn't mean that you're any more dependent on things than they are. It's just an excuse.

To be unique doesn't necessarily mean to stand out by wearing expensive/strange clothing. It can mean acting differently or reserving a unique opinion on things...

BE CREATIVE. Uniforms aren't the end of the world.

What's so boring about looking the same? You rather see school kids wearing sexy/slutty clothes to be... "different" or "special"?

There are OTHER ways to express individuality than just looking different. It's shallow to judge a person only by their appearances.

And those are just a few examples. Clothes, unfortunately, is a popular tool of discrimination.
It is wrong to make a final judgement on it, but uniforms can prevent this 'step' from happening. People will look at you and not be able to tell if you're into rap/rock/classic; they won't know if you prefer the NBA or Golf; they won't know if you're a slut or a decent person. At least, they won't just 'know' from looking at what you wear.

Most adults will not make those assumptions, but kids are generally trapped in their social world where clothes, cars, and money are means to popularity.
But that, once more, is not the only situation. There are people who dresses the way they want, and be hated/discriminate for it. Some are outcasted from their peers...

"Intelligent" people are creative, if they are hindered by uniforms to express themselves, they'll find another way to show their uniqueness. So uniform encourages creativity.
Teaching people to stop discriminating is easier said than done. It is something that is almost in human nature.

I understand there are needs for 'uniqueness' or individuality, but there will be kids who takes that whole thing into a new level. And like I said, it only takes one kid to be 'different' for the rest of them to go with the same trend.

At least uniforms can LIMIT the things that people will judge you for. I agree that all those things are factors, but if one of them can be prevented, then it's a good thing, isn't it?

Wearing a uniform is not going to change who you are, it's only to ensure that kids don't go overboard with thinking about 'clothes' when they should be thinking about school.

Standing out is one thing, but standing out and creating a distraction for other kids who are there to learn is another thing. Stand out at the MALL, stand out at the skating rink, stand out at the PARK. You go to school to learn, not to show your sense of style.
Not everyone, it's the kids who are thinking "I want to 'stand out'" that will do it.
If people are not going to judge you for what you wear, they'll judge you for other things, which will, atleast, seem less superficial. I think saying that a girl is slutty because she grabs every guy in the ass would is more justifiable than judging her because of what she wears, but kids do it anyway.

You must be a very uncreative person to say that uniforms take away individuality and ways express yourself.

Uniforms are only an excuse. If you're truly an individual and creative, there are other ways to express yourself.

How will wearing uniforms make you have the same attitude as everyone else? That's like saying the clothes make the man, which is pretty shallow.

[ichigofan]

I think that Uniforms are GREAT! because it makes dressing for school easier and not such a hastle eghh especially for girls cuz now all you have to worry about is accessories =D This year My Senior Class is going to wear Uniforms for the First week of School.. +D

[Spirited Away]

This year My Senior Class is going to wear Uniforms for the First week of School.. +D

lucky. what colors?

[oXMuhNirvanaXo]

NO .... No school una forms

[Spirited Away]

NO .... No school una forms

yes... yes school una forms.

[*disco infiltrator*]

I'm highly considering being a fashion designer when I grow up. If all I have to wear is school uniforms and I don't get to have input on what I think looks good and not what my school thinks looks good, how will I ever get the training I need? Fashion is a way to express yourself. I can't draw, I can't write, I can't sing..what am I supposed to do? The only way I can show my true self is through talking and what I wear.

Just asking. If there's supposedly other means to express myself in, what are they? I'm not good at much.

I had to wear uniforms in preschool. On the weekends, I had nothing to wear but red, white, and blue (that's what our uniforms were - we always had to have red, white, and blue on us). We couldn't buy anything else since my mom thought it would be silly to waste money on clothes just for the weekend. When I played with my neighbors, I got made fun of for only wearing red, white, and blue. It works both ways.

Yes, people do get made fun of for what clothes they wear, but it's a part of life. There's no way to eliminate every way a kid can feel bad. Feeling bad about yourself sometimes happens. Everyone goes through it. Just because they can't get made fun of for their clothes doesn't mean those who would have made fun of them for that won't find something else. I've tried wearing the same clothes as the "popular" people to fit in, and they just find something else to make fun of. There's always going to be a social status anywhere you go - school, your neighborhood, work, etc. Always.

Kids learn what to wear in certain situations if they have uniforms or not. If we're going on a fieldtrip and our teachers tell us to wear something nice, we know not to wear a tank top and a mini skirt. If someone does wear something inappropriate to school, they get asked to call for a sweatshirt or something to cover themselves up or the school will give them something to cover up with. Kids do know what and what not to wear, but customizing what they can wear teaches them lessons too.

I mean, you may say it's not a form of creativity, and I'm sorry to bring it up again, but it is. Of course people are going to judge on clothes - people judge on anything, but that's a risk you take.

[latinprep12]

^ if you make clothes and become a fashion designer i'll wear whatever you make for the gentlemen

[*disco infiltrator*]

Wtf? That's great, but please don't post if you're not going to contribute..

[pandamonium]

I love uniforms. cause i dont have to be late going to school to pick out an outfit. cause from pre k - 8th grade i went to a private school, from freshman year to senior year i go public school. but uniforms are very orderly and they are no hassle.

ONE exception some people in school who are not able to afford more than one uniform wear the same one all week. and they dont wash it, and to me thats a little hard, and i feel but there are people that dont wash it cause they cant afford it.

BUT another reason is why i like dressing differently, cause there is a selection and i think what you wear tells who you are, and i want to make an impression. and i like clothes, i'd like to wear those clothes and express who i am.

SO im kind of half n half.

[sadolakced acid]

No, the argument was that uniforms teach kids how to dress appropriately by demonstrating to them what appropriate dress is, just as a student is taught calculus by being demonstrated the appropriate way to solve calculus problems.

by that arguement, teachers should wear uniforms to show students how to dress.

but no, students have thier dressing choice made for them. this is equivalent to having all my calculus work done for me.

[*mipadi*]

by that arguement, teachers should wear uniforms to show students how to dress.

but no, students have thier dressing choice made for them.  this is equivalent to having all my calculus work done for me.

The statements you assert do not logically follow from mine.

[sadolakced acid]

^

sigh.

calculus is taught by the teacher setting an example with the example problems, and the students then must do thier work themselves to learn how to do calculus.

good attire choice is taught by the teacher setting an example with thier own attire, and then the students must do thier own choosing and learn how to dress appropriatly.

if uniforms taught students good attire choice, then it would be:

students learn good attire choice through having thier attire choice done by thier teacher/principal.

applying this to calculus, and we get:

students learn calculus through having thier calculus done by thier teacher/ principal.

which is why your assertation that uniforms will teach students to dress for sucess in life is completely absurd.

[*mipadi*]

You're overgeneralizing.

Uniforms can serve to set an example by showing the student a good example. Your error is in arguing that, in this case, the teachers are the example; when in reality, the uniforms are the example. To liken it to your calculus example, the uniforms are providing the students with an example of what is proper attire, just like the teachers provide examples of the proper way to do calculus.

Furthermore, the point can be made that most teachers do dress in appropriate attire while in school, so they, too, set an example for students. But that's beside the point.

[sadolakced acid]

teachers doing my calculus homework will give me an example of calculus.

but if i never have to do calculus outside of class, i won't have a chance to learn, will i?

how many students have to dress appropriatly outside of school, before they have a job interview? what's to say they know how to dress for a job interview if they never have to choose thier own attire for a not-casual occasion?

and yes, teachers usually do dress appropriately. teachers usually do the calculus examples tho. they could still do my calculus homework tho.

[*mipadi*]

It's an overgeneralization to liken dressing appropriately to calculus, Justin. Calculus is a skill that must be practiced in order to perfect it, but dressing appropriately is merely teaching a child the values of given society. The learning mechanism is different. Skills must be practiced; information regarding a society's values need to be shown by example. In both cases the subject is learning, but he learns--and is taught--in different ways, because the subject matter and context is completely different. One can't very well compare the two without gross overgeneralizations.

[sadolakced acid]

i fail to see how the two are that different.

anyways, let's look at it from another angle

by your last assertation, it would appear that people who never wear uniforms are helplessly lost at how to dress formally.

i'm sure plenty of appropriate dressers have never worn a school uniform in thier life.

[*mipadi*]

i fail to see how the two are that different.

anyways, let's look at it from another angle

by your last assertation, it would appear that people who never wear uniforms are helplessly lost at how to dress formally. 

i'm sure plenty of appropriate dressers have never worn a school uniform in thier life.

As I noted, learning a skill and learning values are different things, and as such require different methods of instruction.

And I'm not asserting that wearing uniforms is the only way to learn how to dress appropriately. There are other ways, of course. But it does reinforce the instruction of values in that regard. It provides another example.