Half-Blood Prince Discussion, Spoilers Options

[eccentricity]

^ Yes I noticed it. And I'm not exactly sure where she mentions it, but J.K. Rowling says that house elfs are allowed to because they aren't necessarily apparating and diapparating. They are using house elf magic.

[*autumn.*]

I haven't read the other post so I dunno if someone's already said this but I just wanted to draw your attention to something that surprised me about the 6th Harry Potter book. For those of you who've read the book and/or own it, please turn to pg. 485.

It says in the 4th paragraph, and I quote:
Rupert is the name of the actor that plays Ron Weasley. Have any of you noticed that? And I was wondering, if no one can Apparate or Disapparate onto Hogwarts grounds and inside the castle, then how come Kreacher and Dobby were able to?

well yes, but that was to highlight the fact that Ron wasn't important to that teacher. it's just a coincidence, i'm sure.

[gotahemmi55]

i got half blood prince today! I'll have it done by tomorrow, lata!

[sadolakced acid]

ok. i have a new theory for order of the phoenix.

SIRIUS BLACK IS NOT DEAD.
he fell into the veil.
if you recall, that certain floor of the ministry had weird spells/enchantments. for example, the brains in the tank.
also, in one chapter, rowling repeats so many times that Harry was interested in "the floating veil, and he could hear voices inside the veil."

Bellatrix Lestrange's spell on Sirius was not the killing curse. He fell into the veil and didnt get back up.
Maybe there's an enchantment on the veil, so whoever enters it, cannot go back.

just a thought.

only people who had seen someone die could hear the voices behind the veil, or even see the veil.

therefore; i believe it is a portal to the afterlife. if lestrange's curse didn't kill black, then he still entered the afterlife and is dead.

2+2=5
i love big brother

[jordanriane]

^ i wonder what would happen if a living being entered the veil.

That's a pretty stupid question.

Sirius basically "entered" the veil alive.
Obviously he's not living anymore.

[sadolakced acid]

That's a pretty stupid question.

Sirius basically "entered" the veil alive.
Obviously he's not living anymore.

not really.

what if sirus was dead, and only dead people can go through the veil?

what if sirus wasn't dead, and in going through he was only stuck on the other side?

what if sirus wasn't dead, but died soon after going through the veil?

there are plenty of possiblities.

i like the first one, personally.;

2+2=5
i love big brother

[jordanriane]

not really.

what if sirus was dead, and only dead people can go through the veil? 

what if sirus wasn't dead, and in going through he was only stuck on the other side?

what if sirus wasn't dead, but died soon after going through the veil?

there are plenty of possiblities.

i like the first one, personally.;

2+2=5
i love big brother

Sometimes you can be quite annoying. Feel free to reread the book.
Whether or not he was dead or alive, makes no difference. He's dead now.

It's assumed that behind the veil is death.

[sadolakced acid]

Sometimes you can be quite annoying. Feel free to reread the book.
Whether or not he was dead or alive, makes no difference. He's dead now.

It's assumed that behind the veil is death.

to harry, sirius is dead.

we don't know for sure if he's dead.

[jordanriane]

hahahahha. Denial much?

[sadolakced acid]

hahahahha. Denial much?

you could be wrong you know.

i love how when, about a year ago, someone told me that a character was supposed to die in the 6th book.

i immediatly knew it was dumbledore. of course, no one believed me.

of course i also thought hagrid was the halfblood prince. but still.

we'll see.

[mocassinsx29]

yeah. there was no proof that he was dead. he fell through the veil, and everyone assumed he was dead.

Come on, when someone dies like that, and they're close to Harry, they die. This isn't like Wormtail. You know J. K. Rowling. She said it herself- the hero must go on the last journey alone. She's not bringing him back.

[Death2Smilee]

I heard on this one site that Sirius is still alive, but trapped somewhere. I also heard that Malfoy's sposed to die or sumthin. I knew Dumblydore was gonna die tooo..

[ichigofan]

[quote=azn_cutie_XD,Jul 30 2005, 5:02 PM]eh, some of u believe that snape loved lily...snape might've loved lily, but not a lot...cause in the fifth book snape said "i dont need help from filthy little Mudbloods like her [Lily]!" [quote from snape's worst memory]...but its a cool theory anyhow-i believe it; im just pointing something out...even though u guys have moved from that topic 2 horcruxes, snape killing dumbledore and whatnot 
no way dont tell!

[/quote]

But then again Isnt Snape also a mudblood? maybe he began to hate mudbloods when Lily rejected him because if you remember when Snape found out that voldemort killed the potters he was upset, well maybe not because james was killed but because of Lily, Maybe thats Lilys big secret, and another thing that somewhat proves this theory is that Slughorn kept saying how alike Harry and Lily are at potions, maybe this is some sort of literary device that tells the readers that Snape's little tricks helped both Lily and Harry be better at potions

[xlauren73x]

question..

cant harry still talk to dumbledore in the picture? and then couldn't dumbledore help him by that? because i remember at one point harry was thinking "no longer will he be able to talk to dumbledore" etc etc..

[christine1010200...]

I think 6th book is so sad at the end... and I don't understand Snape.....

[Stretch]

Just finsihed, and here are some semi-random thoughts.

Harry and Voldemort are inextricably linked. Voldemort had not yet made a 6th horcrux when he killed James and Lily. Although a spell is required in order to actually create a horcrux, it's entirely possible that Harry became the 6th. Maybe the spell is prearranged, after all I doubt that a torn piece of soul hangs around for very long. But here's the interesting question: Is it not also possible that in reversing the killing curse, and killing the Dark Lord in the process, that a part of Harry lies within Voldemort? If Harry is a a horcrux for Voldemort, couldn't Voldemort be a horcrux for Harry?

The prophecy states that "neither can live while the other survives", however they both seem to be doing just fine as it is. Of course, missing a piece of ones soul might not be considered living, especially given Slughorns warnings and Voldemorts own description of the state. Also, remember that the prophecy is only real if those involved actively participate.

Onto the final battle, where there are several possibilities. Harry's only weapon, as has been beaten into us, is love. But how to use it? Harry could sacrifice himself as his mother did for a number of characters, dying in the process but giving the same powers of protection to the survivor thus allowing them to finish off the last bit of soul within Voldemort himself. If it is possible that V acts as a horcrux for Harry, then Harry's soul bit can then return to him and we have a happy ending. Farfetched in the last bit, but worth thinking about.

Regardless of horcrux possibilities, if any part of Harry dwells within Voldemort, perhaps it could be harnessed to destroy the Dark Lord from the inside. I imagine if he actually felt love it would hurt him greatly.

Finally, Harry could forgive him. Harry has always felt, and feared, a strong connection with V even aside from any soul swapping. In his darker moments, Harry has been barely able to contain his rage. In fact, he's never been able to control his emotions at all, even given his youth and background. It's the primary reason he failed at Occlumency. He's wanted to attack DD on several occasions, aside from his connection with V. Even without the prophecy, Harry would long to finish it off. In fact, his primary motivator seems to be vengeance. Harry is no stranger to hatred and rage. Harry, like Voldemort, seeks to control those around him. He is at times arrogant, stubborn and manipulative. He is far more powerful than those around him, despite his great lack of experience and poor study habits. He cares nothing for rules that stand in his way and continually puts those around him in danger to serve his own ends. In fact, the only thing that separates him from Voldemort is that he can love. Revenge, no matter how just, is rarely seen as exemplary of love. In order to kill Voldemort in a duel, Harry would have to finally give over to all those negative aspects in himself. He would have to become that which he despises the most. Even if he dies in the process, I don't quite see it as fitting that he sacrfice himself in the midst of seething hatred and bloodlust. In the end, Voldemort may by reviled by most but I believe he will be pittied by Harry, who is the only person who ultimately understands him.

[*suddenly she*]

But here's the interesting question:  Is it not also possible that in reversing the killing curse, and killing the Dark Lord in the process, that a part of Harry lies within Voldemort?  If Harry is a a horcrux for Voldemort, couldn't Voldemort be a horcrux for Harry? 

no, because harry hasn't killed anyone. i think.
but your theories are interesting.

[lipstickvanityx]

Just finsihed, and here are some semi-random thoughts.

Harry and Voldemort are inextricably linked.  Voldemort had not yet made a 6th horcrux when he killed James and Lily.  Although a spell is required in order to actually create a horcrux, it's entirely possible that Harry became the 6th.  Maybe the spell is prearranged, after all I doubt that a torn piece of soul hangs around for very long.  But here's the interesting question:  Is it not also possible that in reversing the killing curse, and killing the Dark Lord in the process, that a part of Harry lies within Voldemort?  If Harry is a a horcrux for Voldemort, couldn't Voldemort be a horcrux for Harry? 

how can voldemort be a horcrux for harry when harry would have to split his soul and place it in voldemort? harry could be a horcrux for voldemort but voldemort for harry? i think...

[Stretch]

Admittedly, it's far fetched. The main question is what exactly is needed to complete a horcrux. As noted, V didn't have time to complete any spells afterward in order to make Harry a horcrux, so it's a murky area. Soul splitting happens automatically whenever you murder someone, and a horcrux simply allows you to use that natural spilt to your advantage. Technically, Harry killed Voldemort, at least his original corporeal form. If V hadn't already made several horcruxes he would have been finshed for good. I'm not sure I want to call that murder, as it was in self-protection and obviously unintentional. Finally, we know it's unusual but possible to make a living being a horcrux. Whether you could do such to whatever state V was in is unknown.

I feel that it's entirely reasonable to suggest that a part of Harry is in Voldemort, soul or otherwise. It gets dodgy after that, but if V could make an accidental horcrux from Harry himself then I don't see it as impossible that some freaky soul switching was going on with both sides. Anyway, it was really just something interesting to think about as opposed to a sound theory. I do fully stand by my notion that Harry will eventually come to feel pity rather than hatred for V.

[Stretch]

Oh, and as to Snape, whether he's a good guy or not remains to be seen, but DD clearly knew that Snape would kill him. He knew both that Malfoy was sworn to kill him but would not be able, and that Snape had made the Unbreakable Vow to help Malfoy. Snape being evil does seem a little to "I knew it" and it also feeds Harry's most negative emotions. Perhaps Snape is struggling inside himself and hasn't really made a final choice either way.

[HappyHeart]

There is this one part in Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets (pg. 332 - 333, very last paragraph) where it kinda confused me.

"You can speak Parseltongue, Harry," said Dumbledore calmly, "because Lord Voldemort - who is the last remaining ancestor of Salazar Slytherin...."

Huh? Ancestor? How?

[HappyHeart]

not ancestor.

rather, descendant.

That's what I kept thinking.

[3ssx]

Harry dies =O


jk.

snape kills dumbledor. (mentioned many times..)

i finished the book so fast. just so no one would spoil it for me . =P

[3ssx]

I think JK Rowling made a lot of mistakes

lol yes she did. she spelt fog wrong at the begining of one chapter.

[vehvih]

*oops* Deleted [by myself], too crazy >.<

edit:// What did Voldie use on Quirrel to be a half of him? Did he cast a horcrux spell to be on him? If so, who did Voldie kill then?