is this suicide justified?, 85 year old man shoots himself Options

[HiddenSmile]

but it's my life! you're missing the point here, i don't want to murder somebody, i want to take my own life! it's MINE. i want to die, i should be allowed to die.
hypothetically, of course.

Well, technically our lives are gifts... (from my point of view, it depends on what you believe) so would you take a really nice gift that someone gave you and throw it off a cliff, or shoot it, even though you dont really like it, or its tough to handle?

[zepfel]

Well, technically our lives are gifts... (from my point of view, it depends on what you believe) so would you take a really nice gift that someone gave you and throw it off a cliff, or shoot it, even though you dont really like it, or its tough to handle?

in all fairness, ive got decades worth of use out of this gift. it's not like i opened the package and said "that's horrible, i don't want it."

[sadolakced acid]

if killing yourself is murder,

then is mastrubation raping yourself?
is tattooing and piering tourturing yourself?
is eating forcefeeding yourself?
is looking at yourself naked in the mirror child pornography?
is taking medication posioning yourself?

[Olive]

my best friend is dead.

no not really, but he certainly wouldn't be able to get hold of a gun!
anyhow, unlike the situation which you use, i'm thinking more from a euthanasia/planned suicide point of view. i doubt you could ever change anybody's reaction to the situation you present.

im sorry to hear of your best friend. But in such issues of suicide, standing from someone else's shoes is more painful then the person committing the suicide – that is, to relieve themselves but to put their problems onto other people.

in all fairness, ive got decades worth of use out of this gift. it's not like i opened the package and said "that's horrible, i don't want it."

But as soon as suicide kicks in, thats exactly what it is - "horrible, dont want it". Life is so precious, yet so many abuse it by giving up.

i think after all that happened to him, he had the right to be selfish. he lost everything, everyone he cared about. he had no reason to stay alive.... maybe he wanted to be with his dead wife and son....is that really so selfish? to want to be with your loved ones again? i can honestly say that i would do the same thing.

Its selfish in the fact that he only worried about his own needs of comfort.
But death was not what he needed at that time, he needed psychiatric help to relieve his depressive behavior. It may sound harsh, but death isn’t a solution, it’s a chicken way out.

if killing yourself is murder,

then is mastrubation raping yourself?
is tattooing and piering tourturing yourself?
is eating forcefeeding yourself? 
is looking at yourself naked in the mirror child pornography?
is taking medication posioning yourself?

That’s exaggerated and very unreasonable, what exactly are you trying to imply? That killing yourself is like every other daily task you very well perform? If everyone thinks there is no murder in ‘killing yourself’, this world would be suicidal.

but it's my life! you're missing the point here, i don't want to murder somebody, i want to take my own life! it's MINE. i want to die, i should be allowed to die.
hypothetically, of course.

the keywords to the suicidal mind: “I, my, mine, me”
Of course you have every “control” over how you wish to kill yourself. I’m sure no body else matters. [/sarcasm]

[Paradox of Life]

Why does suicide have to be justified and why are laws interfering with peoples' LIVES?

[illumineering]

Why does suicide have to be justified and why are laws interfering with peoples' LIVES?

I was asking the question because it not only voilates the laws of many states, it's also a violation of the principles of Christianity. (He was Baptist.)

My understanding is that the law interferes because people in a suicidal state are unable to adequately care for themselves, therefore, the state has a responsibility to step in and intervene on behalf of the person who would harm himself/herself.

[sadolakced acid]

so let me get this straight. killing yourself is murder.... why?

and if you're going to say something about the peopl he left behind....

well it's his wife's fault for dying.
everyone who dies, that's thier fault.

imagine everyone you know. now imagine them all dead.

does life look worth it?

now, the purpose of life is to have sex. he's already done this, and at 85 it's very unlikely he'll do it again.

therefore, he's completed his duty to the human race, and so is not obligated to live.

[illumineering]

now, the purpose of life is to have sex.  he's already done this, and at 85 it's very unlikely he'll do it again.

therefore, he's completed his duty to the human race, and so is not obligated to live.

[Olive]

so let me get this straight.  killing yourself is murder....  why?

if it has not been said more simpler, killing is destroying life. And in doing so, suicide destroys life. In which case, the person - dies. The victim here, is not the one who commits the suicide, but those in which remains affected by it.

now, the purpose of life is to have sex.  

wtf? haha.. did your penis say that? theres more to life than sex, unless you prefer to die after you performed this "duty and obligation", then do not assume an old man can not have sexual intercourse.. again however disturbing that may sound.
Life does not revolve around sex, please think beyond your pants before arguing next that your life = sex.

[HiddenSmile]

if it has not been said more simpler, killing is destroying life. And in doing so, suicide destroys life. In which case, the person - dies. The victim here, is not the one who commits the suicide, but those in which remains affected by it.
wtf? haha.. did your penis say that?  theres more to life than sex, unless you prefer to die after you performed this "duty and obligation", then do not assume an old man can not have sexual intercourse.. again however disturbing that may sound.
Life does not revolve around sex, please think beyond your pants before arguing next that your life = sex.

I agree with this person completely! Suicided is the destroying of life.

[sadolakced acid]

wtf? haha.. did your penis say that?  theres more to life than sex, unless you prefer to die after you performed this "duty and obligation", then do not assume an old man can not have sexual intercourse.. again however disturbing that may sound.
Life does not revolve around sex, please think beyond your pants before arguing next that your life = sex.

the only reason why any living thing is alive is to create more life.

it's a philosophical thing, you know.

if no one had sex, then humans would die out. so sex is very important, and it's the purpose of life. is to have sex and children andhave your children succeed.

[zepfel]

That’s exaggerated and very unreasonable, what exactly are you trying to imply? That killing yourself is like every other daily task you very well perform?

i think what they were trying to point out was that you cannot say that suicide is murder, but all other crimes, when applied to the self, are not bad in any way.
it has to either be: all normal crimes are still criminal when appied to the self
or
no crime is valid when applied to the self

If everyone thinks there is no murder in ‘killing yourself’, this world would be suicidal.

no, i very much doubt that. i'm sure that most people are not too bothered about the moral implications of suicide when they choose to commit it, if the government were to say "we support euthanasia" then there might be a few more people who might choose to die, but there certainly wouldn't be a landslide.

[demolished]

Honestly i think its just a selfish act when you kill your self your just thinking about your self and not how its going to effect anyone else.

and .. smoking too ?

Well, a person can be loved by people but not feel loved. People can feel that they arent good enough to be greatly loved by people. blab, i cant explain.




It's not really selfish, We're just living to died. puwahahaha.

[Olive]

no, i very much doubt that. i'm sure that most people are not too bothered about the moral implications of suicide when they choose to commit it,  if the government were to say "we support euthanasia" then there might be a few more people who might choose to die, but there certainly wouldn't be a landslide.

if people were not "too bothered about the moral implications of suicide" why do they even consider it or to some, change their minds? Sucide is morally wrong as is any other form of killing without purpose but to comfort self-needs.

the only reason why any living thing is alive is to create more life.

it's a philosophical thing, you know.

if no one had sex, then humans would die out.  so sex is very important, and it's the purpose of life.  is to have sex and children andhave your children succeed.

Good Lord! No, you are ill-informed. I thought this topic was on suicide, not your views on life... However, life's purpose is NOT sex regardless. Of course, it is one aspect of life which can happen. I think you mean sex can fulfill your hormones rather than fulfilling an entire lifetime. There are people who have never had sex and still feel the need for suicide. Sex is significant to the life-cycle but it is not the purpose. Suicide on the other hand, violates both this "moral duty" and if you would like to discuss the philosophy of suicide, here is what Plato said about suicide: "cowardice or laziness undertaken by individuals too delicate to manage life's vicissitudes". I don't see where sex comes in.

[sadolakced acid]

^ sex brings about life.

the purpose of life is to perpetuate life. thus, sex.

it's the reason for life, not the reason of life.
don't think i'm trying to say that there's no need to do anything but have sex then die.

i'm saying that that's the human's obligation to the species. he has grandkids- he's furfilled his obligation, he can die if he wishes.

[*mipadi*]

don't think i'm trying to say that there's no need to do anything but have sex then die.

But there is, of course, nothing wrong with that, either.

[Olive]

^  sex brings about life.

the purpose of life is to perpetuate life.  thus, sex.

it's the reason for life, not the reason of life.
don't think i'm trying to say that there's no need to do anything but have sex then die.

i'm saying that that's the human's obligation to the species.  he has grandkids- he's furfilled his obligation, he can die if he wishes.

Who made him God? Just because he was in the process of making life, gives him no right to destroy it. If you are the slightest Christian (which I doubt since you believe reason for life is sex) like this old man, you would know humans are God's property and that suicide violates the holy scriptures in the 10 commandments especially commandment 6 if i am not wrong which reads thus `thy shall not kill`. Thereby, killing oneself is like deciding your own destiny and no longer leaving that duty on God as your creator. That is not justifiable regardless of how many times he performed sex as he committed a wrongful sin, in which ended his existence therefore, giving up on any purposes of life.

[illumineering]

Who made him God? Just because he was in the process of making life, gives him no right to destroy it. If you are the slightest Christian (which I doubt since you believe reason for life is sex) like this old man, you would know humans are God's property and that suicide violates the holy scriptures in the 10 commandments especially commandment 6 if i am not wrong which reads thus `thy shall not kill`. Thereby, killing oneself is like deciding your own destiny and no longer leaving that duty on God as your creator. That is not justifiable regardless of how many times he performed sex as he committed a wrongful sin, in which ended his existence therefore, giving up on any purposes of life.

I was having a discussion with one of my dad's friends who is a Presbyterian minister. The discussion was based on Jesus dying for our sins. If that is truly the case, then the argument that by committing suicide, the man did no wrong because of the sacrafice Jesus made. All his suicide is under this interpretation is a simple individual choice he made that doesn't violate any commandment. If Jesus truly died for all of our sins, the above argument is invalid.

The other interpretation is that the sacrafice Jesus made is only vaild if we follow Him to the Father. That means of our own freewill we must come to God through Jesus. We are then responsible for following the rules of order established in scripture. It would follow that this suicide is a sinful act under this interpretation.

What's your opinion? This is an issue that I have a hard time resolving. It can validate either position with regard to this thread.

[Olive]

the man did no wrong because of the sacrafice Jesus made.  All his suicide is under this interpretation is a simple individual choice he made that doesn't violate any commandment. 

Jesus' sacrafice frees us from sin, it does not defend us from committing it. It did violate the commandment because despite being a Christian, he rejected the value of life.

Here is the Christian view:
Suicide is against God's will for us. This is rather simple to understand. God always wants what is best for us, so therefore He clearly tells us how we should live our lives so that we will experience the best relationship with Him and therefore the best life on earth and for eternity. Clearly, taking our own life would be contrary to God's best for us.
There are serious consequences in separation from God on earth and loss in eternity. Sin keeps us from experiencing the good life.

For the Christian that is seriously considering suicide, I would first question the reality of their conversion. Perhaps their faith is just something they inherited and is not really their own. For the person that has God in their heart, suicide is not a real option.

Non-Religious view:
However much I understand that reasons for suicide and I feel so bad for these people for thinking about ending their lives, I believe suicide shouldn't be an option. There is always another way out, there is always someone to turn to. There should be someone out there in the world that understands how loosing family members feels.

Pain can stop. Being dead can't.

I agree with this person completely! Suicide is the destroying of life.

Great minds think a-like Optimism and acceptance in fate however painful, is corageous. Suicide is inability to accept fate, therefore is not justified.
By the way, I love your signature!

[sadolakced acid]

Who made him God? Just because he was in the process of making life, gives him no right to destroy it. If you are the slightest Christian (which I doubt since you believe reason for life is sex) like this old man, you would know humans are God's property and that suicide violates the holy scriptures in the 10 commandments especially commandment 6 if i am not wrong which reads thus `thy shall not kill`. Thereby, killing oneself is like deciding your own destiny and no longer leaving that duty on God as your creator. That is not justifiable regardless of how many times he performed sex as he committed a wrongful sin, in which ended his existence therefore, giving up on any purposes of life.

thou shalt not kill.

ok, so that's why he shouldn't commit suicide?

oh but wait! chirstians have changed that so they can "kill the infidel", haven't they?

it's thou shalt not kill needlessly.

but this is a needful killing.

every man is god.

god is the only one with the power to decide fate. every man can kill another. every man is god.

[Olive]

thou shalt not kill.

ok, so that's why he shouldn't commit suicide?

oh but wait!  chirstians have changed that so they can "kill the infidel", haven't they?

it's thou shalt not kill needlessly.

but this is a needful killing. 

every man is god. 

god is the only one with the power to decide fate.  every man can kill another.  every man is god.

haha i don't know whether to be amused or highly disturbed.
I guess there's no point arguing about morality when your beliefs revolve around sex and being god.

I truely hope God does not smite you in your daily duties. Good Day.

[sweetabandon]

I believe in the freedom of choice. however, i also believe that his choice was very selfish towards his grandkids. if he didn't have anyone close to him, then it would've been okay to die. we live to love.

religion is only there to scare people from ever doing the bad things. there are so many rules to follow that it doesn't seem like a faith/belief anymore.

[lovebabygonebad]

i mean i wouldn't justify the suicide part, but the reasons as to why he did it is a good enough reason. A 85 year old feeling emotion is unusual. & the fact that he can feel emotion is great, but when an 85 year old feels emotions that he must have it is hard for him to deal with it at that age. so the only logical reason is to committ[sp?] suicide.

i mean if he was in tip-top shape, mentally & physically then thats a different story.

[Purplefender86]

no he still had living loving family members and a dog

[CarbiNe]

i think it is justified and he does have a much better reason than those teenagers who do it for stupid reasons. with all the sadness in his life i probably would of done the same. and it is his life he has the right on how to use it.