Windows Vista (longhorn), To copy many OS X features...duh Options

[*mipadi*]

http://www.betanews.com/article/Longhorn_G...ista/1122002477

It looks like the official name of Windows Longhorn is going to be Windows Vista. What do you guys think of the name, and of Longhorn in general? And more importantly, what's going to be released first: Duke Nukem Forever, or Longhorn?

[*kryogenix*]

http://www.betanews.com/article/Longhorn_G...ista/1122002477

It looks like the official name of Windows Longhorn is going to be Windows Vista. What do you guys think of the name, and of Longhorn in general? And more importantly, what's going to be released first: Duke Nukem Forever, or Longhorn?

LOL!

Maybe Avalanche will be included on Longhorn. Then maybe, we can share Duke Nukem forever on it!

[sadolakced acid]

i am going to hold out from upgrading to vista as long as possible.

it looks like a half-brew, even if it took long to do.

and i'll wait untill the service pack comes out. the ones that patches half the holes.

[medic]

Windows Vista??? WTF, Its almost as sad was what Windows XPs code name was.....

This so called Vista is going to be rediculos, I tryd the beta and its safe, but to much un-needed stuff. Like the daskboard.

[audiodemon]

Yeah I heard about Vista. I was laughing so hard.

[*mipadi*]

Windows Vista??? WTF, Its almost as sad was what Windows XPs code name was.....

Here's a fun piece of trivia:

Windows XP actually gets it's name from an early code name for the software. It was called Cairo at one time. Cairo can be split into the Greek letters Chi and Rho. And...Chi looks like "X", and Rho looks like "P"; thus, XP--Chi Rho--Cairo.

Of course, the marketing people turned it into eXPerience...

[*kryogenix*]

I think XP will be the last Windows OS I use though.

I think Microsoft is really distracted too. Look at what they have.

Microsoft Vs. Google (not only in search engines, but in a lawsuit)
Microsoft Vs. Mozilla Foundation
Microsoft Vs. Apple
Microsoft Vs. Linux
Microsoft Vs. Sony/Nintendo

Am I forgetting any?

[JC4P]

I think XP will be the last Windows OS I use though.

I think Microsoft is really distracted too. Look at what they have.

Microsoft Vs. Google (not only in search engines, but in a lawsuit)
Microsoft Vs. Mozilla Foundation
Microsoft Vs. Apple
Microsoft Vs. Linux
Microsoft Vs. Sony/Nintendo

Am I forgetting any?

i know all of those but vs. Linux? WTH Is MS bitching about now?

[audiodemon]

Like any other company, Microsoft is forcing itself into a monopoly. They want to be on top but their just not saying it outloud. Think Konami's lawsuit on Roxor games for the release of In the Groove.

[sadolakced acid]

windows vs. napster
windows vs. palm os
windows vs. tivo

i think i need to switch to linux.

[medic]

I think XP will be the last Windows OS I use though.

I think Microsoft is really distracted too. Look at what they have.

Microsoft Vs. Google (not only in search engines, but in a lawsuit)
Microsoft Vs. Mozilla Foundation
Microsoft Vs. Apple
Microsoft Vs. Linux
Microsoft Vs. Sony/Nintendo

Am I forgetting any?

They call it the business world, explore new areas. It just seems that they exceed there expectations in places they experiment with.

[artislife90]

I was reading around CNN.com when I came apon an article about Windows Vista, the article outlined the basics of the new Windows OS by what can be seen in the beta.

Alot of stuff is very Macintosh like.


A seach box to replace the "All programs" (spotlight)

Minimized windows will "slide" into taskbar

Maximize windows will "pop" onto screen

as well as drop shadows and other Mac first things..

the main thing I think will ruffle Apple's feathers's is the "slide" Apple is very protective of the minimize effect they use...

So anyway, it looks like Vista is a cheap knock off of OS X.


So anyway any thing to add or comment about Vista besides the fact that is REALLY late?

[*mipadi*]

There's a thread about Vista here.

I don't really see the UI as being a "cheap knock-off" of the Mac OS. Some elements are similar, but the Mac OS is much more than drop shadows, sliding windows, etc.. Judging by the screenshots I've seen, Vista's interface isn't all that similar to that of Mac OS X.

Vista is supposed to have search capabilities like OS X's Spotlight, but that's not amazing to fathom; all major OS developers have been working on such technology. OS X's may have came first, but I don't think Vista's is a "rip off".

The key thing about operating systems is that you can't compare on a feature-by-feature basis and say one has ripped off the other; you really have to look at it as a whole package. Even with a Spotlight-like search tool and some minor graphic effects being the same, Vista and OS X are still very different operating systems.

[sadolakced acid]

errr...

that's like saying that the second wheen built was a rip off of the first one...

they're operating systems, and they will eventually converge, as the best way to fit everyone is found.

[*kryogenix*]

Topics Merged

By the way, Microsoft Executives say that Apple was the one who copied them, because they laid down the ideas years ago, and Apple copied those ideas.

[*mipadi*]

Topics Merged

By the way, Microsoft Executives say that Apple was the one who copied them, because they laid down the ideas years ago, and Apple copied those ideas.

Well, again, the idea of such searching has been around for a long time (since at least the early 1990s); the realization of it is new.

Anyone can have an idea, but it's a different thing entirely to actually implement it.

[artislife90]

--I didn't mean to say that Vista would be like os x. Nothing coming from Microsoft could be anything like Mac. The two Operating systems are too differnt to compare them in that respect.
I ment to say that It seems like even if Microsoft came up with the ideas Apple and Mac have a better nack for implementing them and imporoving apon them, and Windows releases ussually follow in Macintosh's footsteps.

Example - Osx added colorful menus and things like that before Microsoft, and soon to follow was Xp's attempt at a sleek look.

--I think "rip off" is a bit far, but alot of the features do seem a bit familiar...and refering to the "windows sliding into the task bar" I only wondered if Apple would get into a huff about it, since they even took a stab at google for mimicing the Dock effect on their website.

--"i know all of those but vs. Linux? WTH Is MS bitching about now?" <- I think it was just a general statement. Since Microsoft is always trying to stomp out any good challange to Windows.

Yea. ALSO, I don't think alot of people are going to swith over to Vista, I think users who are just getting used to XP would not want a big change in the gui like vista claimed to be. (although it looks like they added a stupid sidebar and enhanced the graphics) lol.

Everyone just switch to Mac or Linux. Microsoft is just going to collapse on itself eventually.

[*mipadi*]

Yea. ALSO, I don't think alot of people are going to swith over to Vista, I think users who are just getting used to XP would not want a big change in the gui like vista claimed to be. (although it looks like they added a stupid sidebar and enhanced the graphics) lol.

Everyone just switch to Mac or Linux. Microsoft is just going to collapse on itself eventually.

Not going to happen for a number of reasons:

1. People don't like change. Sure, people bitch about Windows being insecure, IE being insecure, but do most people switch? No. Even after a very public campaign, Firefox managed less than 10% market penetration, and its share has declined in the past couple of months.
2. Linux isn't quite a viable alternative to Windows yet. Big reason: no MS Office. Yes, you have Office alternatives like OpenOffice, but even OO doesn't offer the same featureset as MS Office, especially for "hardcore" users in a business setting. Secondly, Linux has a much steeper learning curve. Who wants to learn commands like "chmod" or "make", or compile a kernel whenever new software or drivers come out? Maybe some people don't mind, but granny who is just learning how to use a computer, or mom and dad who work 60 hours a week and have three kids, all who need to be at soccer, ballet, and violin practice at the same time, sure don't. And, of course, Linux is a change--see #1.
3. The Mac, like Linux, is a change (see #1), and a costly one at that. Who can justify spending $2000 on a computer that you can get on the Windows side for $1000. I love Macs, but the last computer I got is on a par with low-end Power Mac--and I got it for $1000 less.
4. The UI in Vista isn't all that much different--not as different as jumping to OS X or a Unix or Unix-like operating system.

And that's precisely why software like Windows or IE isn't as good as the Mac OS or Linux or Firefox--MS knows it can produce sub-par software and people will still buy it. Would you dump tons of money into fixing software if you know almost everyone is going to buy it even if it sucks?

[artislife90]

yea.. your right... pooh on microsoft and the uneducated masses.

[*mipadi*]

I'm really interested in seeing how Vista runs. Since the interface (which will undoubtedly be quite bloated, as usual) is going to be processed mostly by the GPU, not the CPU, Vista might very well have some pretty stiff video requirements. With all that GPU power going to draw the interface, I wonder how GPU-dependent programs like Photoshop or games are going to run on Vista?

[dahalfkoreanstyl]

they're also going to release the new version of microsoft office the same time as vista

second half of 2006

[*mipadi*]

I read an intriguing article (available here) about the future of Vista and Windows that made some interesting points. Apparently Microsoft is working on not one, but two operating systems: Vista, and an piece of software called "Singularity" that would be "designed from scratch with the primary goal of dependability." Hm, what does that sound like? Well, it sounds kind of like Unix!

The article has an interesting analysis of Singularity. First off, the author notes a motivation for Singularity:

Remember when Gates announced that the current build of Vista had gotten so complex and bug ridden that they were scrapping everything written in the last six months and going back to a stable build so they could start over? It was costly, it was time consuming and it was highly embarrassing. That incident, more than any other, highlights the fact that Windows might not make it to another incarnation.

Let me say that again because it is doubly important. Windows might not make it to another incarnation. By that I mean when Vista is ready to be phased out, the Windows code base that would normally make up the foundation for Vista’s successor will be so large, so complex and so unmanageable that it will take close to a decade for another version of Windows to come out. Assuming that it is even possible in the first place. Remember, Vista was first started around 2001, so assuming it ships in 2007 (which is not unrealistic) then it will have been in development for almost 7 years. So predicting that Vista’s successor will take 10 years before seeing the light of day is quite reasonable.

So, if the current code base can’t be used then Microsoft will need a replacement and that is where Singularity comes in. They should be looking at this as the foundation for a better, more stable, more easily maintainable base from which to build their next generation of operating systems.

Will it take off? The author of the article says no. The unwritten reason is that it's difficult to create a successful new operating system for the home market these days, although Apple has shown that it is quite possibly to develop a completely new and successful operating system from scratch.

Anyway, I thought the article was interesting and noted some of the problems and limitations with Windows, and what the future of Microsoft-based platforms may be.

[medic]

Yah, well Vista's beta... Rocks

[*kryogenix*]

So windows is forking?

[*mipadi*]

So windows is forking?

I wouldn't say forking. Forking indicates two things:

1. Two projects share the same codebase;
2. Two projects will likely continue to be developed concurrently, at least for the time being.

This article seems to indicate that Singularity is largely from scratch, and that it would be a replacement to Windows; similarly to how OS X does not share a codebase with Mac OS "classic", and is meant as a replacement for the classic Mac OS.

I haven't read MS's documentation to see how reliable that estimate is, but it's an interesting hypothesis. It's true that Windows has clearly gotten bloated, as it has taken years for Microsoft to release a successor to Windows XP; and given that they had to scrap six months of code, it's likely that a future OS almost needs to be written from scratch to be reliable, as it has clearly become a pain in the ass to manage Windows' code. But of course, MS's official word is that Singularity is just a testbed for new technology that will become a part of future Windows OS'es. I'll have to read the documentation, though.