war in iraq Options

[*kryogenix*]

i dont support it...and i think america SERI0USLY needs to mind their own business....ESPECIALLY about the whole north korea nuke thing....and the war too of course......

even my teachers say americans need to stay out of other country's affairs...

we learned that we can't ignore international events during WWII when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor. North Korea claims they have missles that can hit the US? doesn't that deserve some concern? Who are your teachers to say that the US should stay out of international affairs?

[tkproduce]

we learned that we can't ignore international events during WWII when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor. North Korea claims they have missles that can hit the US? doesn't that deserve some concern? Who are your teachers to say that the US should stay out of international affairs?

oh yea, this is pretty random, but did you know that Winston Churchill knew about the plans of the Pearl Harbour incident but didn't tell the Americans about it because he thought it was the only way that the Americans would be persuaded into the war?

I'm not against America getting involved with international affairs, but are the failures like the Vietnam War and the Gulf War really worth it? They really better get this abuse of captured Iraqi soldiers thing sorted before this campaign ends in a failure as well

[xscore]

we learned that we can't ignore international events during WWII when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor. North Korea claims they have missles that can hit the US? doesn't that deserve some concern? Who are your teachers to say that the US should stay out of international affairs?

well america bombed japan, and did lots of other crap to other nations.....they dont get in yalls bussiness do they? and north korea has missiles for defense...
oh, and my teachers are ms. holloway and mr. jones....

[*kryogenix*]

well america bombed japan, and did lots of other crap to other nations.....they dont get in yalls bussiness do they? and north korea has missiles for defense...
oh, and my teachers are ms. holloway and mr. jones....

but the US only bombed japan after japan launched their sneak attack on us. the US didn't just attack for no reason. the US was not the aggressor. and i don't think defense missles are supposed to be able to reach the us from all the way across from the pacific. your teachers should not be giving their opinions. they should be teaching facts.

oh yea, this is pretty random, but did you know that Winston Churchill knew about the plans of the Pearl Harbour incident but didn't tell the Americans about it because he thought it was the only way that the Americans would be persuaded into the war?

I'm not against America getting involved with international affairs, but are the failures like the Vietnam War and the Gulf War really worth it? They really better get this abuse of captured Iraqi soldiers thing sorted before this campaign ends in a failure as well

The Gulf War was not a failure at all. I think that we could have won the Vietnam war if there were no protestors and draft dodgers.

The abuse of the Iraqi soldiers is terrible. That's why the abusers are being court martialled. The US does not approve of such treatment.

[tkproduce]

I think that we could have won the Vietnam war if there were no protestors and draft dodgers.

so what would have happened if the US had "won" the war in Vietnam? Got rid of communism? Great! - maybe except for the fact that communism died out eventually there anyway even if there was no war.

Draft dodgers during the Vietnam War- why were there clearly more black people being drafted than white people? Most of them are poor, so why not make use of them and use them in the war? If that's not racism, I don't know what is. If there were clearly more asian people being drafted and I was one of them, then I would have refused. Even if I was white, I would have still refused because there was no point in the war.

Now, it's the "War against terrorism" as they put it. In effect, it has the same meaning as "war against hatred". Terrorism is an abstract noun - you can't touch or feel it, it's just there. There're probably a lot of terrorist activities going on even within the United States - the guy standing next to you on the train could be a terrorist. I don't know how bombing Iraq is going to make any progress to destroy "terrorism", but they better be doing something because I'm sure people don't want to be paying all their taxes for just manufacturing the next bomb and feeding the government officials.

[dasturbd]

N. korea's missles are for defense?? LOL!!

The reason that many people find that the Gulf war was a failure is because we went in there and then LEFT!! We neglected them when they needed us, that is why the Iraqi's seriously have no trust with us anymore, because they felt that we abandoned them back then. We should have stuck around back then and there would have been no need to be there now, but since we didn't...there we are again.

[dasturbd]

why were there clearly more black people being drafted than white people?

Where did you get that information??

[Spirited Away]

so what would have happened if the US had "won" the war in Vietnam? Got rid of communism? Great! - maybe except for the fact that communism died out eventually there anyway even if there was no war.

Umm, once more I think you have your facts twisted about Vietnam. Communism still exists and the majority of the Vietnamese who had to fled from their own homeland would like very much to have their home be rid of Communism.

Draft dodgers during the Vietnam War- why were there clearly more black people being drafted than white people? Most of them are poor, so why not make use of them and use them in the war? If that's not racism, I don't know what is. If there were clearly more asian people being drafted and I was one of them, then I would have refused. Even if I was white, I would have still refused because there was no point in the war.

PLEASE, NEVER again say that there was no point to the War. You suffered no losses to your family, but thousands, and hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese were affected. We wanted to freedom. THAT WAR MEANT SOMETHING, we fought for our future and it is a justifiable cause.

I don't know how bombing Iraq is going to make any progress to destroy "terrorism", but they better be doing something because I'm sure people don't want to be paying all their taxes for just manufacturing the next bomb and feeding the government officials.

I DO NOT MIND paying my taxes for the cause. If you cared so much then strike or something.

[tkproduce]

the idea behind communism is a very good one. it's just that it will never work with humans because the majority of humans are selfish, deceitful and untrustworthy, including myself.

About Vietnam, I spent a whole year in history studying it, so it's not like I know nothing about it, although I know that sitting in a classroom is very different from having first or second hand experience. But I hope it gives me some qualification for arguing my point.

I understand that the war did have a point for the Vietnamese, because people were fighting for what they believed, but why did the Americans have to intervene? They thought that putting in a dummy right-wing Catholic dictator as leader of South Vietnam would cease the spread in communism. Actually, it just made things worse. The majority of Vietnamese being Buddhist, having this Catholic leader didn't please them. This lead to attacks from the Vietminh - which I guess the Americans would call "terrorists". The American army, not being used to guerilla warfare, got paranoid, bombing everywhere they could, using Agent Orange to strip the leaves of trees to make it easier to look for their enemy (more bombs were dropped in South Vietnam than North Vietnam, in fact). Chemical weapons were dropped everywhere and the consequences of them can still be seen today (apparently). The peak of their paranoia was probably illustrated by the My Lai massacre, where a whole town of innocent women and children were massacred. I'd be surprised if no one protested against these war crimes.

About people that don't like communism fleeing. Not everyone is going to be pleased by their own government. People that have strong right-wing beliefs are obviously not going to like a communist government. When Fidel Castro took over Cuba, a lot of right-wing people did flee (the majority being the rich, who didn't want their money taken away from them). Are people suffering in Cuba? They may not be the wealthiest of countries, but they have the best hospitals in the whole of central and south america and quite a stable education system. It may be common concept that communism is evil but I don't think one has to think more deeply about it to reach that conclusion.

Obviously I haven't spent much care on writing this, so there're a lot of leaks in the argument, possibly some faults in the facts, so this is still open to arguments.

[Spirited Away]

The peak of their paranoia was probably illustrated by the My Lai massacre, where a whole town of innocent women and children were massacred. I'd be surprised if no one protested against these war crimes.

NO ONE can tell you what REALLY went on in My Lai, even South Vietnamese soldiers have doubts and questioned where the fault truly lies. What you know of is only from propaganda from 'peace-lovers' at the expense of a Nation's freedom. You ask why America interfered? I don't know, but I can tell you that the South WANTED AMERICAN help.

Are people suffering in Cuba? They may not be the wealthiest of countries, but they have the best hospitals in the whole of central and south america and quite a stable education system. It may be common concept that communism is evil but I don't think one has to think more deeply about it to reach that conclusion.

I base my opinions about communism from having lived in a communistic society and having family members suffered from it. I don't know the case of Communism in Cuba, but I do know that Communism today is not in its pure form. Almost all communist regimes now adopt some socialist and even democratic characteristics because Communism in its purest form DOES NOT WORK.

[*kryogenix*]

alright, lets get back on topic. It's the War in Iraq we're talking about, not Vietnam.

[annchovie]

*sigh...i guess there's no preventing it....but i don't like war at all.

[tkproduce]

One is left with the horrible feeling now that war settles nothing; that to win a war is as disastrous as to lose one - Agatha Christie

You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake - Jeannette Rankin

War may sometimes be a necessary evil. But no matter how necessary, it is always an evil, never a good. We will not learn how to live together in peace by killing each other's children - Jimmy Carter

What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy? - Mahatma Gandhi

Politics is war without bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed - Mao Tse-Tung

One day President Roosevelt told me that he was asking publicly for suggestions about what the war should be called. I said at once 'The Unnecessary War' - Sir WInston Churchill

[Spirited Away]

yes yes, all of those quotes are all nice and good, but how realistic?

I have one question for you: would you fight for your freedom, your children's freedom, and their children's freedom if it's being threatened?

I would.

[tkproduce]

yes yes, all of those quotes are all nice and good, but how realistic?

I have one question for you: would you fight for your freedom, your children's freedom, and their children's freedom if it's being threatened?

I would.

I don't think I can make up a decision on that unless I was actually faced with it. I don't think this war in Iraq has much to do with freedom, so if it was this war, I would never fight in it. My children are probably a million times more likely to get killed in a road accident, drug abuse or homicide by a crazy man living in the neighbourhood than be killed by a terrorist attack. The type of question I would ask myself would be something like: "Would my children suffer more from losing their father to a war or from the fear that they might be involved in a terrorist attack?" I don't think it's as easy a decision that you've made it out to be.

[F_L_I_P]

did you guys know what they were doing to the iraqi soldiers. its wrong.

[*kryogenix*]

did you guys know what they were doing to the iraqi soldiers. its wrong.

we aren't condoning those actions. those soldiers are being court martialled. that was just an isolated case.

[*Kathleen*]

I don't think I can make up a decision on that unless I was actually faced with it. I don't think this war in Iraq has much to do with freedom, so if it was this war, I would never fight in it. My children are probably a million times more likely to get killed in a road accident, drug abuse or homicide by a crazy man living in the neighbourhood than be killed by a terrorist attack. The type of question I would ask myself would be something like: "Would my children suffer more from losing their father to a war or from the fear that they might be involved in a terrorist attack?" I don't think it's as easy a decision that you've made it out to be.

Do you want to actually risk that? Having a mindset of, "Oh, I doubt my kids will get slaughtered by terrorists"? I wouldn't want to. If you have the choice to prevent possible terrorist attacks, would it not be best to try?

[Spirited Away]

I don't think I can make up a decision on that unless I was actually faced with it.

So you're just going to sit there and wait for another September 11th to happen, this time closer to home. Maybe it doesn't have to happen to your children, but maybe to your loved ones.

I don't think this war in Iraq has much to do with freedom, so if it was this war, I would never fight in it.

Then I guess it all comes down to point of view, because I feel that we're fighting for freedom, the freedom to live the American way of life. I felt that it was threaten by people who are only envious of what this country has become.

My children are probably a million times more likely to get killed in a road accident, drug abuse or homicide by a crazy man living in the neighbourhood than be killed by a terrorist attack.

I agree, but that doesn't mean I won't be wary of other threats as well.

"Would my children suffer more from losing their father to a war or from the fear that they might be involved in a terrorist attack?" I don't think it's as easy a decision that you've made it out to be.

Pfft, if their father is fighting for what he believes in, then he has honor. He knows the risks, but he's still fighting for his country and for his family. That's the making of a hero. I'd be proud to have a father like that.

[tkproduce]

So you're just going to sit there and wait for another September 11th to happen, this time closer to home. Maybe it doesn't have to happen to your children, but maybe to your loved ones.

Yea, actually, I'll be fine sitting my ass here in front of my computer. If you feel so strongly about it, why don't you get your ass of your computer seat and go do some volunteer work for the army or something? I won't be convinced by your argument until you do so, because at the moment, it doesn't seem to me that you're doing any more for your country than I am.

[Spirited Away]

*scratches head*, I think I told you to do the same thing a couple of posts ago.

But I'm not the one who needs to go protest because the war is continuing, and I'm in favor of it. I think you got it the other way around, because you're the one who's anti-war, shouldn't you be protesting?

[tkproduce]

Sorry if I've misled all of you. As a matter of fact, I'm a very right-wing person and I'm in favour of the war. All the publicity and money being made from it is just great. I'll never go to war myself, but still, I'm proud of the people that are there and I hope they kick some Iraqi ass.

I was just having fun trying to argue against most of you that seemed to be pro-war. Can I continue my anti-war arguments?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
okay, continuation:

I don't go protesting because I think protesting is just as useless as the war itself.

You said before that you'll be proud of a dad who fights for what he believes, but I'll rather have a dad who's bringing in stable income to the family than a dead one who went out to fight somewhere thousands of miles away

[Spirited Away]

Ah, I see, how fun it is to try to argue the other way... what a challenge!

But protesting was a potent strategy used by Ghandi and MLK. It's not as useless as you may think.

You said before that you'll be proud of a dad who fights for what he believes, but I'll rather have a dad who's bringing in stable income to the family than a dead one who went out to fight somewhere thousands of miles away 

Like I said, it does depends on point of view because when you look at the Bigger picture, a father can't really bring home a stable income if his home is being threatened by bombs and planes crashing into it, right?

[onenonly101]

These are my feelings about the war...

We were going to go to war NO MATTER WHAT. DOi agree with it no, but it was going to happen. Do i agree with the so-called reason, no because this is what i believe: Bush wants to finish what his father started, have control of the oil feilds, and remove Suddam from power. He is not doing this to free the Iraqi people, he don't give crap about what is happening to them. But let me clarify, it is not JUST Bush, it is his cabinent including his advisors and our representatives, that we vote into office who have voted ofr the war. We need to pull out right now. There have been so many casualities since the so-called major combat has ended a year ago on both sides. Most of the people dying have nothing to do with the war, in the aspect of being rebels and what not. These are civilians we are killing, and they are killing our soldiers. The thing is we need to get out now. Bush said he wanted to take Suddam and he did, he nows says he wants to set up a democratic government. That ain't gonna happen. The thing is it comes down to how dare we tell them what to do with there country and fight thenm for power over THEIR country. If these people will remember when we wanted independence from Great Britain, we said they had no authority over us and we should be free. It seems as though we are now "Great Britain" and they are "America".
That is just half of my opinion. About protesting, what in the world do protestors of the war really think that Bush will all of a sudden call a cease fire and pull out because of protestors over here?!?! We have too much freedom in America cuz if this was Nigeria there would be no talk of protesting in the streets, your behind would be shot before you stepped onto the street

[tkproduce]

I think it's more likely that his work place or transport to the work place is going to get bombed, so I guess the threat is more on the Dad than his family.