Is America, Really as bad as people say? Options

[Spirited Away]

So, I'm trying to understand exactly what you guys are arguing about here...
The root of the argument had to do with the United States' advantage over countries like Cambodia and the Philippines, and then you two got into it about 'why'.
Ingenuity vs. Privilege?

It started with me saying that the US must be doing something right (or better) to be more well off financially than countries like Cambodia. Then I confused myself after that.

He says we have more opportunies and resources at our disposal than third world nations, and I just wanted to point out that sometimes opportunies are present but we don't always grasp them. As for resources, or natural resources, Japan is a perfect example of a country that doesn't need natural resources to be successful. He says Japan wouldn't be successful without the help of foreign forces, I agree but I also think that the opportunity to be successful was given and Japan grasped it and nurtured it rather than resist. They did something right, in my opinion.

[sadolakced acid]

i thought japan had coal...

and forests.

the US wanted japan as a coaling station, so they sent mathew perry there... right?

[Shahin]

It started with me saying that the US must be doing something right (or better) to be more well off financially than countries like Cambodia. Then I confused myself after that.

He says we have more opportunies and resources at our disposal than third world nations, and I just wanted to point out that sometimes opportunies are present but we don't always grasp them. As for resources, or natural resources, Japan is a perfect example of a country that doesn't need natural resources to be successful. He says Japan wouldn't be successful without the help of foreign forces, I agree but I also think that the opportunity to be successful was given and Japan grasped it and nurtured it rather than resist. They did something right, in my opinion.

Whoa there. How do you mean Japan was given an oppurtunity that they grasped and nurtured? The only reason the Japanese are so financially capable these days is because the US pumped billions of dollars to re-build the nation after world war 2 and have continued to buy and sell Japanese goods in bulk. An oppurtunity? They had to fight a hopeless war against the US in order to gain what they have today. If they had *won* WW2 then that point of view may be relevant, but their financial status and world standing today sits squarely on the shoulders of the United States. Wow, that was a bad last sentence. You know what I mean.

[Spirited Away]

i thought japan had coal...
and forests.

Everyone will agree that natural resource in Japan is poor. Its economic successes are based on imported raw materials.

Japan has coal reserves, yes, but it imports coal from foreign countries. Why?
They mine about 3 to 4 million tons of coal per year but they use about 135 million every year. This is needed because of the demand for steel which is manufactured by coal.
About Japan's coal. It adds up to about 865 million metric ton, now compare this number to the 9.5 billion metric ton that we have though. If the Japanese only use their coal reserves, it would not last them very long.

My numbers may be slightly off, but not by too much...

Whoa there. How do you mean Japan was given an oppurtunity that they grasped and nurtured? The only reason the Japanese are so financially capable these days is because the US pumped billions of dollars to re-build the nation after world war 2 and have continued to buy and sell Japanese goods in bulk. An oppurtunity? They had to fight a hopeless war against the US in order to gain what they have today. If they had *won* WW2 then that point of view may be relevant, but their financial status and world standing today sits squarely on the shoulders of the United States. Wow, that was a bad last sentence. You know what I mean.

I don't think you understand me.
The opportunity IS having the US "pump billions of dollars" into their econmy. That IS the opportunity presented to them after suffering from WWII which they used to their advantage.

If you look up the definition of opportunity, you'll see what I mean.

Opportunities do not need to be given. Sometimes they simply present themselves. So, I'm not saying that the US gave Japan the opportunity exactly, I'm just saying that the opportunity was there, and they went with the follow of it.

[medic]

I've decided NOT to live there, there polictics are horible not saying canadian politics are any better mind you lol. But I'm glad I live where I am now because I feel we have more freedom here in most parts of Canada. Not all the time. But really ... however I don't think all americans are rednicks and such and such. Most of them are really nice, and are just like you or me. I just don't like the fact how every outburst is controlled by the republicians. I.E like FOX Network. I love my friends from there, however it's not as scary a place as some think.

You do know that no TV network is ran or owned by a cretin political party. There privately owned. Most of FOX's new hosts are republican which makes there shows more to the republican side. Most of CNN's hosts are more of the democrat side, it depends on the host, not the station. I mean look at the Daily Show, Comedy Central is owned by Viacom which owns most of the TV channels across the board. From BET to MTV. The owner of Viacom is in his 70s and funded George W. Bush when he ran for president. The host of The Daily Show (John S.) greatly hates George W. Bush, he uses it in his show all the time. His moment of Zen is a grate example. The big shots sitting at Viacom don’t care what he has to say, as long as he keeps ratings up he stays, if they go down the hole, he's gone. If the Orily Factor or w/a it is where to loose its ratings there would be no need to keep it.

[*Weird addiction*]

LMAO...haha... but yes...You have NO idea how much people hate you in my town, i wouldn't say in the whole of belgium because i'm not sure, but Brussels is 75 % arab, my school is 90 % arab. When i first arrived here, i couldn't speak french and people hated me because they thought i was american but when they found out that i wasn't, they apologised.

They think the americans are terrorists...they say americans are killing "their" people in Iraq...

The worst part is that, they say all this about america but The USA is the n° 1 country in the world that helps people out during problems...

[*disco infiltrator*]

Aw you have a french number sign thingy..

And I dunno about that, Britian helps a lot..

[medic]

We are also the only country that helps rebuild a country after we win the war. Such as in Iraq, we are placing it in the form of a Democracy, and because we are doing the - we are considered the "bad" guys. Why everyone else around the world read and learn about it from TV or other new sources, Americans are paying the total of it all. Taxes, America spending billions to get Iraq back with power, and water. American oil companies investing billions in new refineries that the Iraqi people blow up themselves.

[sadolakced acid]

they way to prove you're not in a war for oil is not to build pipelines and refineries and then bitch when they get blown up.

[medic]

they way to prove you're not in a war for oil is not to build pipelines and refineries and then bitch when they get blown up. 

It's not like there US government pipelines and refineries, there privately owned by BP and Chevron, and other fossil fuel companies. The us only convinces the corporate latter of those companys that investing that kind of company funds is useful and will help them in the long run.

[sadolakced acid]

It's not like there US government pipelines and refineries, there privately owned by BP and Chevron, and other fossil fuel companies. The us only convinces the corporate latter of those companys that investing that kind of company funds is useful and will help them in the long run.

so the us 'convinces' these oil companies by providing them money...

i forget, what industry did W work in before he ran for governor? and cheney, which one did he work it?

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

[technicolour]

whoa..Bush worked for an oil company?? I've lived in texas all my life and the only thing I know he did was be governor for like..ever.

God i have so much googling to do.

[*mipadi*]

He ran an oil company. He drove it into the ground--cause, you know, it's hard to find oil in Texas.

He also owned the Texas Rangers, once upon a time.

[sadolakced acid]

yup. glad to see such a ... errr... success is at the helm of the country.

[medic]

Bush owned a Oil Company.... They found oil in his "back" yard. I don't know if he has sold it or not.... HmMmMmMm, GOOGLE TIME!!!!!

[*mipadi*]

Bush owned a Oil Company.... They found oil in his "back" yard. I don't know if he has sold it or not.... HmMmMmMm, GOOGLE TIME!!!!!

Bush sold his oil company to Spectrum 7 a long time ago. Spectrum 7 later merged with Harken Energy, and Bush has sold all his stock in Harken.

So of course he doesn't own an oil company anymore. I mean, that would be a conflict of interest, right? It's not like Bush or any of his advisors retain their stock holdings in private companies while holding political office, or that any of their old companies get massive no-bid contracts to rebuild Iraq after it is destroyed...

[medic]

Bush sold his oil company to Spectrum 7 a long time ago. Spectrum 7 later merged with Harken Energy, and Bush has sold all his stock in Harken.

So of course he doesn't own an oil company anymore. I mean, that would be a conflict of interest, right? It's not like Bush or any of his advisors retain their stock holdings in private companies while holding political office, or that any of their old companies get massive no-bid contracts to rebuild Iraq after it is destroyed...

True....

[*CrackedRearView*]

Aw you have a french number sign thingy..

And I dunno about that, Britian helps a lot..

Actually, I posted an article that shows the United States outdoing Europe by 15 to 1 in foreign aid (with Great Britain and France as the primary examples).

[*mipadi*]

Actually, I posted an article that shows the United States outdoing Europe by 15 to 1 in foreign aid (with Great Britain and France as the primary examples).

Admirable, but what's the ratio of wealth in America as compared to wealth in Europe?

[*CrackedRearView*]

Much less than 15 to 1, I'm afraid. We're not that much better off than the United Kingdom, or France, or Spain, etc.

[*mipadi*]

I think there's no doubt that many Americans are generous, giving individuals. I think the main point of this thread is that the government of the United States isn't always the same. In terms of government contributions, the United States gives about 0.11% of its GNP in foreign aid; compare to many industrialized nations who give 0.20% or more, or compare to Denmark, which gives a whopping 1%. [1]

Unfortunately, the image of the United States does not rest so much on the actions of its people, but rather the actions of its government. The government has pledged to give 0.7% in foreign aid, but it rarely, if ever, does, and US foreign aid has been on the decline in recent years. [2] I think that it would do a lot if America would help out some other countries by at least giving the amount of aid it has pledged.

[*CrackedRearView*]

I think there's no doubt that many Americans are generous, giving individuals. I think the main point of this thread is that the government of the United States isn't always the same. In terms of government contributions, the United States gives about 0.11% of its GNP in foreign aid; compare to many industrialized nations who give 0.20% or more, or compare to Denmark, which gives a whopping 1%. [1]

Unfortunately, the image of the United States does not rest so much on the actions of its people, but rather the actions of its government. The government has pledged to give 0.7% in foreign aid, but it rarely, if ever, does, and US foreign aid has been on the decline in recent years. [2] I think that it would do a lot if America would help out some other countries by at least giving the amount of aid it has pledged.

Doesn't a lot of that attribute to the fact that the United States prefers privatization as opposed to centralization when it comes to economics?

Most of our foreign aid (from charities, and individual donors) comes from the private sector, which would make sense, right?

[*mipadi*]

Doesn't a lot of that attribute to the fact that the United States prefers privatization as opposed to centralization when it comes to economics?

Most of our foreign aid (from charities, and individual donors) comes from the private sector, which would make sense, right?

It's only recently that the US has preferred privatization, and it's only a select few members of our government that prefer it.

[*CrackedRearView*]

It's only recently that the US has preferred privatization, and it's only a select few members of our government that prefer it.

I meant in a general sense. Great Britain is much more centralized than the United States and always has been.

[antix10_kos]

4 Reasons America Sucks:

1) There's this whole "Big Brother" thing....GPS systems, tracking chips in cell phones, spyware on computers, security cameras in schools, stores, and stoplights....The corporate world and the government can watch you, will watch you and will not hesitate take action if they deem it necessary.

2) There's this organization called the EPA. They are supposed to take care of the environment, but apparently they are asleep. The US government pollutes our air by dumping everything from chemical wastes to manufactured diseases into our air. They let rich oil barons desecrate beautiful land for oil. They dump industrial wastes into our water supplies and then add harmful chemicals to the water to make it "safe" to drink.

3) Our education system is one of the worst in the world. Countries that are far poorer and have access to much less technology and information perform much better than us. Children whose native language is not English even score higher than US native speakers on English exams. We place last on most math exams....Why is this so when we have the money and resources to make it happen another way? Which leads me to no. 4....

4) Our government spends more on "war expenses" and "terrorism protection" than they spend on our education system, medical care for citizens....and many other important things that would make the US a better place.

4 Reasons America Doesn't Suck:

1) I (and anyone else who's a US Citizen) can list the first set of reasons without fearing imprisonment or torture (theoretically.)

2) I (and anyone over 18 who's precinct is not controlled by Republican terrorists and is a registered voter) can go vote for the idiot/monkey/best person for the job of running our government

3) I (and anyone who wants to) has the freedom to come and go as we please as long as we have ID and a passport (some money is also helpful... ).

4) I (and some other people here in the US) know that the US is flawed and will either live with it or can work to change it.


Freedom or Freedumb or Freedom?

Your choice. If you don't like it, leave when you can....