war in iraq Options

[dasturbd]

We should have went into North Korea before we went into Iraq.

Oh I dont think so...
Iraq needed to be taken care of ASAP. The issues with N. korea scare me a hell of alot more than anything that Iraq could do.

[dasturbd]

I think we need to pull out of iraq....the people can deal with it there selves.....if countries where not ignorant then Saddam wouldnt have been in power in the first place.....yeah you say he forced his way....no he got there by workin his way there then used force to stay there.....and as for your elites in afghanstan.....show f**kin hard is it to find an old man on Diallesis(sp)....we need to put our soilders over to find him let the Iraqi people figure things out on there own....bring our troops home.....

ok this entire statement is just naive...

Other countries are not like us. We, in the U.S. are kept in the dark about many things as far as Govt. goes, and thats basically for our own good (believe it or not)...people in other countries are kept entirely in the dark and it's not for their own good, it's because their Govt. wants them to be ignorant and to believe there is NO OTHER WAY.

Suddam worked his way up to the top for sure, by first off being nothing more than a peon that killed, not so much cuz he "had" to but because he enjoyed the hell out of it.

Was it all the Germans' faults for what Hitler and Stalin did??

As for finding "the old man on dialysis"...it's not like our guys are in their "hood". There's caves inside of caves there...literally holes in the side of a hill. When was the last time you found a needle in a haystack??

[*kryogenix*]

We should have went into North Korea before we went into Iraq.

we haven't exhausted diplomatic solutions with NK. We have with Iraq. in fact, NK is talking about dismantling their nuke program.

[xjjajeengx]

wow kyro, you know so much.

anyways, i personally dont support any kind of war (i didnt at first) but in a way, i guess there was no choice. i mean, what was the U.S suppose to do, stand back and watch them hurt our country? I dont know... i guess Bush did the right thing, although i dont agree with all of his tactics and such, but I support that he didnt just stand back and let our country be harmed by foreigners.
Also, even if i dont want to support the war, i feel that i kind of have to because my cousin was in iraq for a very long time. He is my oldest cousin, and I have really funny memories with him... and I felt really sad when he left and i didnt even find out until a month later. I do support our troops (my cousin is a pastor in the marines now)

dude, do you think the troops are not trying their best to find osama? you think they enjoy staying in a desert or hunting through mountains and caves? Afghanistan is a large area. It'll be very dificult to find him.

very true. I'm so proud of our troops... they're so awesome...

this sounds like people are saying the life of an American soldier is far more important than the lives of innocent iraqi civilians

Well, American soldiers volunteer to protect our country and fight for us... even if it means death. I consider that really heroic... and so i really really care about them..
and as for the iraqis, i pray for them every night.
its not that i dont care about them, because i do... i bet there are many children dieing as well... but its hard to think of them when you're thinking about the many soldiers dieing and how Saddam is so frikken #$%^@#$%... i guess it's just a lack of consideration (i am so guilty) and especially when you see terrorists and stuff killing people and soliders, i get really mad to the point where i just forget about the civilians i guess.... i cant explain it.

[x0xcrzybabyx0x]

prove it. it's only a conspiracy theory until you can prove it.

guess what, i think we're there to keep America safe. I'm sick of these anti Bush people. Sometimes they say he holds his religious values too much, then they think he values oil over american blood. George W. Bush wants Americans to be safe, that's why we're in Iraq.

okay.. right george bush wants americans to be safe? dang its sad how blind people can be to the truth..
remember when he said that there was weapons of mass destruction in iraq? right.. remember how many weapons of mass destruction we found.. thats right..zero.. we have 1000's of weapons inspectors in iraq theres NO WAY they wouldnt be able to find them if they were REALLY there.. the bush administration is lying to the people.. do u not see that? crazy kids..
you want to talk to me about bush wanting people to be safe.. yea.. click this.. then we can talk..

[tkproduce]

I don't see why the American government can say that it's alright for them to have nuclear weapons and other weapons of mass destruction while it's totally wrong for any other country to have them unless they've allied with them. They're scared of them being used? Well, as far as I'm aware, the only time a nuclear weapon was used to kill people was in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, which the Americans themselves dropped, killing hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians.

I don't have a firm belief on which "side" of the argument I'm on, but since quite a lot of you seem to be arguing pro-American, I'm just suggesting some other points of view.

[starling]

as long as there are other countries with nuclear weapons, you think the US is going to give them up? sure. let's get rid of all the nukes while other countries who harbor animosity against us still have them. i'm not so sure that's a good idea.

[dasturbd]

I don't see why the American government can say that it's alright for them to have nuclear weapons and other weapons of mass destruction while it's totally wrong for any other country to have them unless they've allied with them. They're scared of them being used? Well, as far as I'm aware, the only time a nuclear weapon was used to kill people was in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, which the Americans themselves dropped, killing hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians.

I don't have a firm belief on which "side" of the argument I'm on, but since quite a lot of you seem to be arguing pro-American, I'm just suggesting some other points of view.

First off, there is a huge difference between a nuclear bomb and an atomic bomb. Had we dropped a "nuke" they would cease to exist and so would all life there. The magnitude of a blast from a Nuke would have wiped Japan itself off the map.

Secondly, it was pretty much revenge for Pearl Harbor and the attack on our men at Battleship row. No sorrow for those that died that day??

It's one thing to posses nukes, but to actually use them is another. We form alliances and have peace treaties for a reason. The nuke is simply a scare tactic. Many countries have them, not just the U.S.; however, it's unlikely that anyone would really use them, but to at least say that they (countries) have one, so they may all stand toe to toe with eachother. It's like a stare down.

You then come in contact with the unreasonable, the Kamikazes so to say. The ones that don't give a crap about human life, even their own. These people may just pull a trump card and decide to push their "red button" one day...and we just simply can't allow that.

When it comes to nukes and the rules of engagement for possessing/using them, it's not just about saving mankind in the U.S., it's about saving mankind period.

[angel-roh]

iono...-_-;; but i reallie wana help those ppls who are suffering from pain-_-;; i feel bad for them.. i mean hello??? president bush is the one who wanted the war...-_-;; i feel bad for the lil kids who were in the bomb incident-_--;; i feel bad... im serious like in broken heart-_-;; i wana try and help them!! T_T;;

[dasturbd]

okay.. right george bush wants americans to be safe? dang its sad how blind people can be to the truth..
remember when he said that there was weapons of mass destruction in iraq? right.. remember how many weapons of mass destruction we found.. thats right..zero.. we have 1000's of weapons inspectors in iraq theres NO WAY they wouldnt be able to find them if they were REALLY there.. the bush administration is lying to the people.. do u not see that? crazy kids..
you want to talk to me about bush wanting people to be safe.. yea.. click this.. then we can talk..

Propaganda at it's finest

[starling]

okay.. right george bush wants americans to be safe? dang its sad how blind people can be to the truth..
remember when he said that there was weapons of mass destruction in iraq? right.. remember how many weapons of mass destruction we found.. thats right..zero.. we have 1000's of weapons inspectors in iraq theres NO WAY they wouldnt be able to find them if they were REALLY there.. the bush administration is lying to the people.. do u not see that? crazy kids..
you want to talk to me about bush wanting people to be safe.. yea.. click this.. then we can talk..

would you rather that we hadn't gone into Iraq and found nothing? or would you rather we had satyed our butts home, twiddling our thumbs, and then maybe there's the possibility that someone did have something. and then what?

[*Kathleen*]

Well, as far as I'm aware, the only time a nuclear weapon was used to kill people was in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, which the Americans themselves dropped, killing hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians.

Adding to what dasturbd said above, did we not go back and help them?! America is one of those countries who care, unlike if another country were to attack us with bombs, they would most likely have no remorse. That's the thing - countries envy us so much because we have so much power. If they have a chance to actually harm us badly, do you honestly think they're going to look back and say, "Wow, that was wrong - we should help out" ?! No, I don't think so.

[tkproduce]

You then come in contact with the unreasonable, the Kamikazes so to say. The ones that don't give a crap about human life, even their own. These people may just pull a trump card and decide to push their "red button" one day...and we just simply can't allow that.

First of all, that's a misunderstanding about Kamikaze. Japanese men sacrificed their own lives for their country and for their emperor. Now, from a Christian or "modern" point of view, that seems "wrong" because the belief in western countries is to respect your own life. However, what a lot of western people don't seem to understand is the cultural gap between themselves and other countries. In a lot of Asian countries, people like to work as a group, rather than show individuality, and have a leader to which they honor. Whether people regard this as "primative" or "unfair" is another problem.

The Vietnam War, for example - the people there were poor and were about to be ruled by a communist government, but were they unhappy? I'm sure they were happier before their whole country was being bombed by napalm and Agent Orange by the Allies who believed that the Vietnamese would be "happier" living in a western culture. And what's the result? A totally useless war wasting a lot of lives and money - sort of like what this war in Iraq is ending up to be.

Another thing, catching Bin Laden and punishing him will NOT change anything. Terrorism doesn't work like that. Destroying one organisation will just give rise to another, as long as there's hate - and believe me, there's alot of it out there. I say, catching Bin Laden would just make things worse, because he's got a legendary status in the middle east.

[*Kathleen*]

First of all, that's a misunderstanding about Kamikaze. Japanese men sacrificed their own lives for their country and for their emperor. Now, from a Christian or "modern" point of view, that seems "wrong" because the belief in western countries is to respect your own life. However, what a lot of western people don't seem to understand is the cultural gap between themselves and other countries. In a lot of Asian countries, people like to work as a group, rather than show individuality, and have a leader to which they honor. Whether people regard this as "primative" or "unfair" is another problem.

The Vietnam War, for example - the people there were poor and were about to be ruled by a communist government, but were they unhappy? I'm sure they were happier before their whole country was being bombed by napalm and Agent Orange by the Allies who believed that the Vietnamese would be "happier" living in a western culture. And what's the result? A totally useless war wasting a lot of lives and money - sort of like what this war in Iraq is ending up to be.

Another thing, catching Bin Laden and punishing him will NOT change anything. Terrorism doesn't work like that. Destroying one organisation will just give rise to another, as long as there's hate - and believe me, there's alot of it out there. I say, catching Bin Laden would just make things worse, because he's got a legendary status in the middle east.

First off, are the American troops out there in Iraq not fighting for their country? Because previous wars were fought, we have rights and freedoms now that we didn't have before. What do you mean?! There are plenty of people in this country that stand up for it, respecting it every single day. There are people fighting to protect it right now! That's what we're talking about, right?

How is this war wasting lives? Okay, let's say this war were to never happen - Saddam would still be in power, killing off dozens of innocent people every single hour. That's not wasting lives, is it? Oh no, not at all. That's exactly what I'm getting from you. Furthermore, Saddam would've found some way or other to harm our country even more because he knew we were still mourning from 9-11, and were at one of our weakest periods.

Catching Bin Laden and punishing him will not change anything, eh? That's a nice thought. How about the fact that if we catch him, he'll no longer have the ability to plot attacks against the United States! I suppose you didn't think about that. Another thing, by punishing him, it'll show his followers not to mess with us. Yeah, you're right - all hate and evil can't be exterminated. We can try the best we can though, right? What do you want us to do? Give up because hate exists?

[tkproduce]

wow. chill. I'm just trying to suggest another point of view to this topic, not have a major, full-blown, argument.

I don't have anything against the individual Allied soldiers fighting out there because I believe that they believe that they're fighting for a just cause - for their country and for their family. Similarly, all the individual Iraqi soldiers are doing exactly the same - fighting for their country and loved ones. The evil is behind the masterminds of the war, not the individual fighters involved in it.

You say about "at least we're trying", but I'm just asking what would justify "at least we're trying" if it goes all wrong like it did in Vietnam?

About Bin Laden, these people are not afraid of dying or being punished for the sake of harming the Americans who they DETEST with all their heart. The argument of trying to get rid of evil by having a war sort of sounds contradictory and it doesn't make sense to me. Why not spend the billions of dollars of money spent on the war on more important stuff like improving the education system, preventing road accidents (which kill more than Bin Laden will ever do) or feed the poor?

[x0xcrzybabyx0x]

Propaganda at it's finest

haha right..thats propaganda? sheesh.. look at your president and the whole bush administration.. there the true definition of propaganda.. ugh.. it makes me sick..

would you rather that we hadn't gone into Iraq and found nothing? or would you rather we had satyed our butts home, twiddling our thumbs, and then maybe there's the possibility that someone did have something. and then what?

psh.. im NOT saying that going in there looking for weapons were bad.. the point i was getting at was that bush is lying to us! in his state of the union adress he stated that iraq had weapons of mass destruction.. and all i said was that they didnt.. therefore proving bush lied to us..
geez..

[dasturbd]

wow. chill. I'm just trying to suggest another point of view to this topic, not have a major, full-blown, argument.

I don't have anything against the individual Allied soldiers fighting out there because I believe that they believe that they're fighting for a just cause - for their country and for their family.  Similarly, all the individual Iraqi soldiers are doing exactly the same - fighting for their country and loved ones.  The evil is behind the masterminds of the war, not the individual fighters involved in it.

You say about "at least we're trying", but I'm just asking what would justify "at least we're trying" if it goes all wrong like it did in Vietnam?

About Bin Laden, these people are not afraid of dying or being punished for the sake of harming the Americans who they DETEST with all their heart.  The argument of trying to get rid of evil by having a war sort of sounds contradictory and it doesn't make sense to me.  Why not spend the billions of dollars of money spent on the war on more important stuff like improving the education system, preventing road accidents (which kill more than Bin Laden will ever do) or feed the poor?

as far as Vietnam goes, I don't put it and the current situation in the same book. We are in Iraq as a direct result of things that happened on our own soil...huge difference there.

Oh btw...my mention of Kamikazes above was not a pun intended towards the japanes, only towards a way of thinking.

Furthermore, we do need to spend some well deserved money into the education system, but not at the expense of the military. What good is education if you're dead.

[dasturbd]

haha right..thats propaganda? sheesh.. look at your president and the whole bush administration.. there the true definition of propaganda.. ugh.. it makes me sick..



psh.. im NOT saying that going in there looking for weapons were bad.. the point i was getting at was that bush is lying to us! in his state of the union adress he stated that iraq had weapons of mass destruction.. and all i said was that they didnt.. therefore proving bush lied to us..
geez..

Bush Lies, Clinton Lied, and god forbid if Kerry's dumb@ss gets into office...he will lie too, and do you know why

BECAUSE PEOPLE CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!! they want to think that everything is just peaches and roses.

Heck the opinions stated in this very thread can be considered propaganda. the link you showed is just another form of it, and to say that all of our weapons used in IRAQ caused all those deformations that your link showed is absurd when you consider what their own people have done to them.

[tkproduce]

oh, I don't know - don't care anymore... f*ck it. Just pay your taxes and let the government spend it on bombing Iraqis and Afghans and everyone who hates America and we'll all be happy.

[x0xcrzybabyx0x]

haha man.. with every new post this argument gets funnier.. geez.. i dont even have the energy to argue anymore...

[juliar]

Bush Lies, Clinton Lied, and god forbid if Kerry's dumb@ss gets into office...he will lie too, and do you know why

BECAUSE PEOPLE CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!  they want to think that everything is just peaches and roses.

Heck the opinions stated in this very thread can be considered propaganda.  the link you showed is just another form of it, and to say that all of our weapons used in IRAQ caused all those deformations that your link showed is absurd when you consider what their own people have done to them.

Every president lies. But the thing is that only people like BUSH get CAUGHT lying. That is why we blame him.
And he is too DUMB to evade the catching of him..
And no, I don't support this. Let's go bashing all the way into Iraq to "look for WOMD." But hey, we didn't find anything. Why are there people in there? Iraqians [?] and Americans die each day THERE. For what?

[Spirited Away]

The Vietnam War, for example - the people there were poor and were about to be ruled by a communist government, but were they unhappy? I'm sure they were happier before their whole country was being bombed by napalm and Agent Orange by the Allies who believed that the Vietnamese would be "happier" living in a western culture. And what's the result? A totally useless war wasting a lot of lives and money - sort of like what this war in Iraq is ending up to be.

Since you took the liberty to clear up misconceptions with the Kamikazes, I feel like I have to clear up some misconception you might have about the Vietnam War.

Vietnam was NOT poor in the days before Communist regime. Even though we wanted independence from France badly, we were NOT poor. And YES, people in the south were UNHAPPY with the communists! Why else would we began a decade of civil warfare? We knew the consequences of war! People are not so ignorant as to not knowing that there will be casualties. The Southerners supported a democratic government, why else would there be mass migration to America? Most of us enjoy western culture.

Yes, that war wasted lives and money, but we were fighting for our freedom and we felt that it was honorable. Please DO NOT say that we fought that bloody war for nothing.

Another thing, catching Bin Laden and punishing him will NOT change anything. Terrorism doesn't work like that. Destroying one organisation will just give rise to another, as long as there's hate - and believe me, there's alot of it out there. I say, catching Bin Laden would just make things worse, because he's got a legendary status in the middle east.

Okay, then lets stop tracking him down and let him roam free to do more fatal damage to the world's population.
Punishing him will bring satisfaction, and will set an example for terrorist wanna-bes that America is not to be trifled with.

I, for once, will feel safer if the world is rid of that one terrorist.

[juliar]

Okay, then lets stop tracking him down and let him roam free to do more fatal damage to the world's population.
Punishing him will bring satisfaction, and will set an example for terrorist wanna-bes that America is not to be trifled with.

I, for once, will feel safer if the world is rid of that one terrorist.

One terrorist, you realize how many more can crash a 747 into the Sears Tower? Empire State? White House? Capitol? It will not set an example because guess what? History is repeated over and over.

[Spirited Away]

One terrorist, you realize how many more can crash a 747 into the Sears Tower? Empire State? White House? Capitol? It will not set an example because guess what? History is repeated over and over.

*sigh*, what i meant is that i will feel safer knowing that at least one terrorist is gone.

It will not set an example because guess what? History is repeated over and over.

Okay, so lets DO NOTHING to stop it?

You can put some effort into doing something and fail, but still be proud that you know you tried.

If you don't try and fail, well, the situation speaks for itself.

[Mireh]

I seriously think that the US should just keep out of other nations businesses. Why should we help other countries when we have so many problems here already?