"Rich" Options

[Aesirus]

Aesirus sounds like a Marxist who has never actually read Marx.

Locke proposed that our labour is what gives us ownership of nature. The effort of picking an apple off a tree, or even planting that tree, makes the apple ours, because you have put something of yourself, your labour, into the apple. In a monied economy, labour translates into money, which can be used to purchase goods that aren't actually produced using our labour.

Did I say I was a Marxist? Marx had some ideas, that does not hake me a Marxist. The Labor Theory of Value did indeed come from Locke, but merely because the apple is yours, does not make the land yours. The apple is a consumer good, and as the person who planted the apple, you are entitled to it.

However, the land itself belongs to all people in common, which were the words of Locke himself, and thus the value of labor derives from just that--labor, and not ownership. As the planter of the apple, you are given the right to the apple, but not the land. You may use the land, but you may not own it.

[darkphyre]

That's EXACTLY what my brother said.... *twilight zone music*

Your brother sounds like a smart guy.

Hmmmn... When I hit reply I see a post by Aesirus, but when I view the thread it's not there....

Did I say I was a Marxist? Marx had some ideas, that does not hake me a Marxist.

I never said you were. I just said you sound like one.

The Labor Theory of Value did indeed come from Locke, but merely because the apple is yours, does not make the land yours. The apple is a consumer good, and as the person who planted the apple, you are entitled to it.

However, the land itself belongs to all people in common, which were the words of Locke himself, and thus the value of labor derives from just that--labor, and not ownership. As the planter of the apple, you are given the right to the apple, but not the land. You may use the land, but you may not own it.

And if you till the land with your plow?

[Aesirus]

Bad servers

[Aesirus]

Aesirus sounds like a Marxist who has never actually read Marx.

Locke proposed that our labour is what gives us ownership of nature. The effort of picking an apple off a tree, or even planting that tree, makes the apple ours, because you have put something of yourself, your labour, into the apple. In a monied economy, labour translates into money, which can be used to purchase goods that aren't actually produced using our labour.

Locke's labor theory of value, that I quote from, not Marx. (Locke is the one who said that God created the Earth for all men in common) gives people the ownership over the FRUITS of nature (i.e. consumer goods), not nature itself. A man who planted an apple is entitled to teh apple he planted with his own labor, NOT to the land which was never his.

Thus, when collective labor is required, such as in the building of an automobile, the people who took part in that process ought to have dibs over the finished products, and not peopel on the outside, whose only claim to the finished product is that they provided natural resources which did not belong to him in the first place.

[Aesirus]

And if you till the land with your plow?

You are entitled to some of the fruits of the land, but not the land itself. On principle, you should not be able to exclude others from coming in and tilling the land as well.

If your criterion for land ownership if if you can "till it with a plow", then someone can just take a branch and till an entire continent.

Since land belongs to all people, when you 'till the land', you are providing a service, and you should be paid, as if you were providing a service.

[darkphyre]

Why does land belong to all people?

[Whitey]

being rich is very complecated hears how:

you all know your 3 basic classes
rich
middle
poor

then there is more catagorys:
rich - wealthy-very rich-extremly rick ie bill gates
middle - lower-upper-boarderline rich
poor - homeless-wellfare-less then minumum wage

lets say there are two people bob and joe.
bob is very rich
joe is upper middle class


in joes middle class catagory he is doing good with a 700k house, 2 brand new lexus'

in bobs very rich class catagory he is doing good also with a 2mill house, 2 benz's and a porsche

but once joe goes to bobs naborhood he is considered poor!
if joe goes to a crack house,drug trade naborhood he is considered extremely rich


just because someone buys very expensive clothes doesnt mean hes rich it means hes not to smart when it comes to money. i have heard people in my school say there 2 year old north fag jacket is worth $500, no its not because know one buys used clothes!!!!! its worth $0.

do expensive cars make you rich NO. i could buy a lamborghini and live in the projects for the rest of my life would i be rich?


do you got to be a rocket scientist to be rich NO. even if you work in mcdonalds you can have money. just know how to spend it.

all the poor people asking for money have some dumbass life story how they was devorced 5 times and had 16 kids.

5 words- ITS YOUR OWN DAM FAULT

[OriskybusinessO]

all the poor people asking for money have some dumbass life story how they was devorced 5 times and had 16 kids.

5 words- ITS YOUR OWN DAM FAULT

THANK YOU. "ITS YOUR OWN DAMN FAULT" you should see my labeling debate...

[*mona lisa*]

well, the same goes for poor people. people with money are mean to people without any money as well. it just so happens that some people we encounter who are rich, are too greedy to be kind to people who have less people than them. i don't make fun of rich people because they have money, sometimes it's the way that they act because they have so much money.

[innovation]

all the poor people asking for money have some dumbass life story how they was devorced 5 times and had 16 kids.

5 words- ITS YOUR OWN DAM FAULT

hm, shows how ignorant and self-absorbed you are. did they have the influence, the money, the education, the circumstances that you have? they probably didn't even have any role models to guide them. their parents probably didn't even encourage them to do well in school. they probably had difficult lives and little motivation, little hope, little support. now, if they're born into upper middle-class families and turn out poor, then perhaps it's due to laziness. what we need to do (and are doing) is provide these poor people with the opportunity to escape poverty (which they DID NOT have when they were younger, perhaps): vocational training, education, career counseling, etc.

man, i've never seen someone so arrogantly brainwashed by elitist culture.

[OriskybusinessO]

man, i've never seen someone so arrogantly brainwashed by elitist culture.

HA! Same to you... now what he (and myself) are trying to say is that they ALREADY have to power to go get an education, make themselves better people and contibute to the world. There are public schools EVERYWERE, all you have to do is go tell them you want to go to school, even if your an illegal alien, by US law the public schools have to educate you. Just because they are too lazy and all they do is go around listening to rap and doing drugs all day doesnt mean they cant get their ass out of their house and go to school. (This doesnt apply to everyone) Everyone has the right to an education, some dont take advantage of it. And for collage, get a scholorship, or even better get a job and save your money.

[innovation]

you know very well that people don't just get that kind of motivation out of thin air. people need good influence. i have educated parents and academically motivated friends that mold me and make me ambitious. many less fortunate kids feel hopeless; they think that they just aren't good at school; they were never taught to take education seriously. their parents often aren't very supportive at all, and their friends often direct them toward lives of drugs and laziness.

and even if SOMEHOW, they get this motivation from within them (which is EXTREMELY difficult because one is molded by one's surroundings), college is PRICEY.. too pricey for even scholarships or savings, sometimes.

GOOD INFLUENCE is the key to helping less fortunate children improve their lives. unfortunately, most of them are isolated (either by themselves or by society) from this influence.

[OriskybusinessO]

well thats why no one should commit crimes and be bad people. you know no one anymore looks up to someone that intelligent. Look at the people in the Rap business, talking about drugs, murder, and countless other crimes. People on the streets look up to these people, majority havent even made it pased highschool, because they are from the same place as them. Well, the thing is people need to start looking up to better people, then we wouldnt have this problem. Idiots should be banned. And they dont need 'motivation' they need the law, the US should make all people finish high school, not the option to drop out at 16.

[innovation]

there will always be uneducated people; that's a fact of life. furthermore, some of their families are starving, so they need to drop out in order to support them financially. and what's the use of another year of high school if they're not going to do anything with their education anyway? it's ridiculous to think that a law requiring just one more year of mandatory schooling will solve or even improve the situation of poverty. what these kids need are programs established by private and public organizations (collaborative efforts, even) that are low-cost and can help these financially disadvantaged kids to appreciate knowledge and aspire to seek an education. for older citizens living in poverty, low-cost or even free services should be provided-- vocational training, support groups, career counseling. increasing opportunity and increasing good influence are the keys to solving the problem of poverty.

[OriskybusinessO]

it's ridiculous to think that a law requiring just one more year of mandatory schooling will solve or even improve the situation of poverty.

...help these financially disadvantaged kids to appreciate knowledge and aspire to seek an education...

Ahumm.. you say its rediculous to make them go to school for their last year, and then tell them to appreciate knowledge? So your saying its OK for kids to drop out, just to make money and be stupid. if they drop out of high school, they can never get a good job, its hard to get a good job with a high school diploma.

[Spirited Away]

HA! Same to you... now what he (and myself) are trying to say is that they ALREADY have to power to go get an education, make themselves better people and contibute to the world.

Why are we limitting ourselves to children in the US? You do know what I am getting at right?

Lets discuss about children in the US then. Not everyone is privvy to go to school like you would expect. There are circumstances where people cannot go to school, no matter how much they desire to. Such circumstances are sometimes, most of the time, NOT in their hands. This means they have to try harder than the average person, who has schooling, to make a living.

Do you want a real life example?

[OriskybusinessO]

example please

[innovation]

Ahumm.. you say its rediculous to make them go to school for their last year, and then tell them to appreciate knowledge? So your saying its OK for kids to drop out, just to make money and be stupid. if they drop out of high school, they can never get a good job, its hard to get a good job with a high school diploma.

please stop twisting my words around for your benefit. i never said that it was "okay" for kids to drop out. i would never support that. i said that one more year of high school is not enough to give most financially disadvantaged students the initiative to seek higher education and improve their lives. as for the appreciating knowledge thing, there are many ways to reach disadvantaged students at a young age and provide them with the influence and encouragement they need to succeed academically in the future. the problem right now is that most are never taught to take academics or their futures seriously. besides, there are already programs that target disadvantaged students and provide them with support/confidence in order to succeed.

[fameONE]

I've been reading the replies in this thread and I'm jumping at the opp to speak from my angle.

I grew up on the Westside of Wilmington, Delaware. Basically, that's nothing. All you have is crime and hoop dreams in that neighborhood and your elders try to keep your behavior in check with religion. At 11, my father recieved a rather hefty promotion that moved us to the suburbs of Tampa Bay. It was there where I saw 'rich' people. Kids with Bentleys, parents with multimillion dollar homes and drugs to give them a reason to live/die. Now, I live in San Antonio, Texas and the cost of living is a lot less than Florida and the way of life here is so different. It seems as though the people who have money are the ones you'd least expect. I get all types of comments about my clothes. Because I wear a Michael Kors shirt, people assume (make an ass out of u and me) that my family is loaded or that I'm some spoiled rich kid. When, the fact of the matter is, we're just an average middle class fam with good taste. Being 'rich' for the most part is all about perspectives. So what someone drives a nice ride? Good credit. Their parents are near dead and they live in a nice hood? Well, thats years of hard work. Unfortunately, sometimes the kids turn into total douchebags because some parents don't mind spoiling their offspring. The point abuot perspectives that I'm trying to make is that; up until these critical years of my developmental life, I always thought I was rich. Living in the projects, my parents worked hard and provided for both me and my sister, but the projects weren't a bad thing. All I knew is that we had the nicest crib, and (even in clothes from Value City) I was always the best dressed. Perspectives.

Now, these kids that truly are rich are merely products of their environments. Of course, some of us less fortunate would love to cut these bastards down to size and teach them a lesson or two about humility but really, that comes off as just plain jealous. And for those that are jealous, suck it up and develop some ambition so that one day, you can be the one rockin the Prada, living atop a hill overlooking the city and driving the Bentley. Get your ass of your shoulders.

Living on both sides of the tracks can teach you a few things about perspectives.

[Spirited Away]

example please

Hah, now that I think about it, you're not going to believe me simply because it's a personal experience. So I'm not going to bother pouring my life's and my family's life story to you and have anyone doubt me for a minute.

It's sad really, that kids like you are so SHELTERED from the world that you all become so unsympathetic to those who have no power over their life. I do not doubt that hardwork does pay off, but hardwork sometimes just do not cut it. There are such possibilities. Do not limit your mind to just what you see, what you think you know. The world is a bigger place than your backyard, your community... bigger than the USA, the North American continent. Just keep those thoughts in mind.

You should just be grateful for what you have rather than criticize those who have less than you for their lack of wealth. You haven't work as hard as one of these people all your life and probably never have to. You haven't worked as hard as the 11 year old in a cole mine. You haven't worked as hard as an 8 year old girl taking care of her younger siblings while her Dad's getting drunk and her Mom's working her butt of to provide for the family. Please be considerate of their feelings when you say things like "it's [their] own fault". Please.

The world is just a wonderful place of hardworking rich people and a bunch of lazy poor people to you. But that's not reality. Reality is much harsher than you think.

[OriskybusinessO]

i said that one more year of high school is not enough to give most financially disadvantaged students the initiative to seek higher education and improve their lives.

If they have a high school diploma, yes it will. Sorry i didnt mean to twist your words, i thought that was what you meant.

Hah, now that I think about it, you're not going to believe me simply because it's a personal experience. So I'm not going to bother pouring my life's and my family's life story to you and have anyone doubt me for a minute. 

It's sad really, that kids like you are so SHELTERED from the world that you all become so unsympathetic to those who have no power over their life. I do not doubt that hardwork does pay off, but hardwork sometimes just do not cut it. There are such possibilities. Do not limit your mind to just what you see, what you think you know. The world is a bigger place than your backyard, your community... bigger than the USA, the North American continent. Just keep those thoughts in mind.   

You should just be grateful for what you have rather than criticize those who have less than you for their lack of wealth. You haven't work as hard as one of these people all your life and probably never have to. You haven't worked as hard as the 11 year old in a cole mine. You haven't worked as hard as an 8 year old girl taking care of her younger siblings while her Dad's getting drunk and her Mom's working her butt of to provide for the family. Please be considerate of their feelings when you say things like "it's [their] own fault". Please.

The world is just a wonderful place of hardworking rich people and a bunch of lazy poor people to you. But that's not reality. Reality is much harsher than you think.

You ask if i want an example, then deny me one? And if you read below, i am not ''sheltered'' i have lived all over the nation, in all parts of cities, big and small, so i know a lot about people and their lives and money situations. So can you stop making assumptions about me and my life saying i have never worked a day in my life and will never have to. Because i am going to Stanford to become a lawyer and provide for my future family. Do you know how hard im going to have to work, mentally (school) and phsically, (for this money im going to need and im going to make) So dont go off making assumptions about people youve never even talked to in person. And for that nice little story youve provided me with, whos fault is it that their dad is drunk all the time? Their Dad. Whos fault is it that they have to work in a coal mine (im thinking you mean somewhere in africa) their country, maybe they should save their money and come to america.

And to brandon: youve made a good point, i too have gone through the same thing. My mom grew up in a bad family, moving all the time etc. But she worked her way through college and got a good job and made money for her family and children. My dad had a good life growing up, nice one-story, basically middle-class. He too went to college and became an IT Director for multiple companies. So when i was born we started out ok, and lived in middle class houses for a while. Then I moved to a country club and everyone said i was rich, which wasnt true (well i guess it depends on how you look at it...), because we bought the house for a normal price (less than 500,000) and there was a huge real-estate boom, which drove the price of our house up into the millions. Then we moved to where we are now and got a nice all-brick house for somewhere around 300,000. And look where my mom is now, she went to college, and thats what all these as you would say ''uninspiered'' people need to do.

[sammi rules you]

^ you can't just pick up and move to a country that's more expensive than your home, that you're not used to, alone. especially if you live in a communist country.

[wounded]

What do you guys think about the 'money and clothes and popularity' differences in high schools today?

I'm not poor. But I'm not rich. I very seldomly get any clothes or anything, and if I do, I pay for it myself. I can't let my parents do it cos then I won't go to college. There are lots of kids at my school, especially the girls, who are willing to spend $100 plus in one weekend. I'm like, "That's stupid!" and they all laugh at me. But yes, If you have money you are "popular"* and you can buy the newest styles. I am friends with kids in FFA and shit, and they aren't necissarily rich, so I don't really care too much for money.

*My friends and I have this theory that I am more popular than the 'popular' kids cos more people know about my family than theirs (my family used to be uber big in the community, and it somewhat is, still).

[tmauze]

whoever said "it's your own damn fault" ((i'm too lazy to go and quote it )) needs to reconsider. not everyone has the same oppurtunities we are given, not to mention that many people who become homeless are mentally challenged and are not capable of much to improve their standerds of living. and then you go say to get an education, well first off not everyone can no matter what you think, and i also most mention that your arrogance to our world today obviously shows a lack of decent, meaningful schooling in your life.

[tmauze]

oh my goodness i go to a very materialistic school! not to sound stuck up, but i live in a rather affluent school district where all the girls have juicy purses, gucci belts and seven jeans. there is a group of popular girls and there is like 3 levels within them, all of which are based primerily (sp?) on the clothes you wear. however, outside of this group, looks don't weigh too heavily on social factors.

quite frankly, i cannot stand the materialisticness of our world today. what does it matter if you can get jeans at target for $20 versus jeans at saks for $200?! other than the butt, they look the same. don't get me wrong though, i love the looks of brand names. i love coach and seven and bcbg but why spend so much money just for the name?! i'm 14, and, quite frankly, i find it absurd to own a real purse at my age, despite the fact that i've grown up in a place where most girls get their first "real" purse in sixth grade. i find this sickening! girls come to school each and every day in $900 outfits! that's ridiculous! think of how many other ways you could put your money to good use! these girls claim they would die without their possessions, but then you get to thinking about the children dying in africa because of their extent of poverty. these families make less than $1 a day! that is nothing to the average american today.

all in all, look at what our world has come to! think of how many people you could be helping with the money you otherwise use to buy clothes merely to fit into a designated "clique." it's absolutely absurd and overrated.