rights and religion Options

[innovation]

certain Islamic Fundamentalist nations currently have legislation that deprive women of social advancement-- for example, they don't allow women to leave the house without their husbands, drive, etc. also, education is not compulsory for girls in some nations. these laws (or lack of laws) have instilled the long-standing impression in some cultures that women are "inferior," thus making them more vulnerable to domestic violence, etc. in addition, they cannot participate political or get jobs; therefore, the nations' economic, social, and political development is stunted!

does the UN have the right to ask them to reevaluate their religious doctrines, keeping in mind the importance of women's rights? can the UN really infringe on their culture/religion like that, when human rights are at stake? help, you guys!

[sammi rules you]

well, we didn't have women's rights either till not that long ago, so perhaps just give them time, and they'll adapt to the new thoughts of life? their way of life is much different than ours, and i don't think our country is the prime example of equality the way it is, so i don't think we have the right to change their way of life just because it doesn't agree with our mindset.

[Saeglopur]

I can't say we're not animals ... but we are like animals. Animals sometimes have dominance in their genders ... er, if that made any sense. I mean ... there's a species of monkeys where the female is more dominant and all ... I don't know. I think maybe they have their own ways of thinking and someday, they'll adapt to having women be equal as well.... I hope.

[*mzkandi*]

to come in and change someones culture is wrong. i am all for woman's rights but it wasnt to long ago that here in America that we were fighting for women's right to vote and not to mention civil rights. we cant constantly compare other countries to the ole great America *rolls eyes* because we as a country are not all that great. as for domestic violence, i dont care what the culture, the abuse of women is wrong. period.

[Spirited Away]

For now my stance is simple:

If women in those countries understand how much better life can be for them but do not mind the status quo, I don't think anyone has the right to interfere as it would be their choice to remain inferior. To intervene would mean taking away their choice. However, those who seek freedom in their lives should be allowed sanctuary and receive support for their cause.

Women in the US who wanted the right to vote didn't just stay at home and nag at their husbands, they protested and spoke out until they were heard and something was done about it. Though this is a dangerous feat for women in countries that do not give a hoot about females, women must sacrifice their safety for a greater cause or else they will get no where.

Yes the UN should help, but only if those women are willing to help themselves. There is, though, an important part of this whole thing: education. If women are not educated about the outside world, as in if they do not understand how things can be better, then they will look at change in a bad light and may not even want it. The UN should at least encourage a law enabling women to attend school.

[innovation]

to come in and change someones culture is wrong.
as for domestic violence, i dont care what the culture, the abuse of women is wrong. period.

but sometimes, culture causes the domestic violence of women because laws, traditions, and such promote the image that women are inferior.

If women in those countries understand how much better life can be for them but do not mind the status quo, I don't think anyone has the right to interfere as it would be their choice to remain inferior. To intervene would mean taking away their choice. However, those who seek freedom in their lives should be allowed sanctuary and receive support for their cause.

but most women aren't even informed of their basic rights, and many have grown up in a home where inferiority was suggested. they're just taught that education and professional jobs aren't for women. they have little access to media, international media, even less, so i don't think that they're fully aware of their potentials and possibilites. but... if the UN requested that education be provided to girls (about their rights, etc.) in order to provide them with that choice, would that be another infringement upon culture?

Women in the US who wanted the right to vote didn't just stay at home and nag at their husbands, they protested and spoke out until they were heard and something was done about it. Though this is a dangerous feat for women in countries that do not give a hoot about females, women must sacrifice their safety for a greater cause or else they will get no where.

meh, i think that the US women had an advantage... women in some countries aren't even allowed to leave the house without their husbands. and they need motivation.. they have always been taught that they are weak and incompetent. that's why women's groups should be established. but the culture wouldn't allow them! they need some form of united action, but many women don't even have the right to assemble.

Yes the UN should help, but only if those women are willing to help themselves. There is, though, an important part of this whole thing: education. If women are not educated about the outside world, as in if they do not understand how things can be better, then they will look at change in a bad light and may not even want it. The UN should at least encourage a law enabling women to attend school.

i agree, of course. but in less socially progressive nations, nobody is used to having girls in schools. they might be harrassed, discouraged, etc, or subject to further violence because the males might think that they're attempting to rebel. even with such a law (it's stated as a UN suggestion in the Beijing Platform for Action), enforcement will be difficult...

[sammi rules you]

i agree, of course. but in less socially progressive nations, nobody is used to having girls in schools. they might be harrassed, discouraged, etc, or subject to further violence because the males might think that they're attempting to rebel. even with such a law (it's stated as a UN suggestion in the Beijing Platform for Action), enforcement will be difficult...

however, it was a hard idea to process for most of our country that black people and white people should be in the same schools; but, we got over it. i think that, in their own time, the people in the country will come to realize that these women need rights. if the women don't have access to the media, then some man will realize it. it wasn't only women protesting for womens' rights here; it was men, too.

[innovation]

however, it was a hard idea to process for most of our country that black people and white people should be in the same schools; but, we got over it. i think that, in their own time, the people in the country will come to realize that these women need rights. if the women don't have access to the media, then some man will realize it. it wasn't only women protesting for womens' rights here; it was men, too.

america was built on the foundation of democracy; many other nations were not-- it was easier for us

[Loff]

Let be what will

[Spirited Away]

america was built on the foundation of democracy; many other nations were not-- it was easier for us

They must make changes then, so that it will be easier. This is not only a job for the UN, but for the citizens of that country. If the UN just came in and took over laws and regulation, that would be forcing a change instead of encouraging it. When you force a people who are prone to violence into doing something they do not like, they'll respond with violence. However, if the UN encourage change through education as I've said, these women can educate their children (males included). Such change is slow, but it is inevitable.

I do not like the idea of forcing someone to change their ways so drastically, and it's even worse to think that the change must be made within a short term period. For some, it's possible. For others, it's possible but it will involves battles upon battles. We can forgo unneccessary battles if change is subtle in this case.

but most women aren't even informed of their basic rights, and many have grown up in a home where inferiority was suggested. they're just taught that education and professional jobs aren't for women. they have little access to media, international media, even less, so i don't think that they're fully aware of their potentials and possibilites. but... if the UN requested that education be provided to girls (about their rights, etc.) in order to provide them with that choice, would that be another infringement upon culture?

That's why I said education is a key point in all this. It would be infringement upon culture, however, it would be the women of that culture who will make the change. The UN would be just encouraging it.

meh, i think that the US women had an advantage... women in some countries aren't even allowed to leave the house without their husbands. and they need motivation.. they have always been taught that they are weak and incompetent. that's why women's groups should be established. but the culture wouldn't allow them! they need some form of united action, but many women don't even have the right to assemble.

Yes, we did. That is why I said it could be dangerous for those women to try, but I also said to be free, they must make sacrifices, trial and error. Freedom is scarcely handed to us on a silver plater.

i agree, of course. but in less socially progressive nations, nobody is used to having girls in schools. they might be harrassed, discouraged, etc, or subject to further violence because the males might think that they're attempting to rebel. even with such a law (it's stated as a UN suggestion in the Beijing Platform for Action), enforcement will be difficult...

After a law enables schooling, instead of going into a public facility, an initial change could be schooling at home or at small gatherings. That way, they are not so much a "sore eye" to those who do not like the idea. At the very least, they could prevent, not all, but some violence.




Mindy, you're making me think too much , I'm supposed to be studying for my Stats exam tomorrow!!!

This topic is great though... a lot of times, American kids are so sheltered that they do not know what's beyond N.America.

[racoons > you]

yes, mindy the un should have the right, as if the country is a member, they have apprroved the declaration for human rights, which covers womens rights

these countries are in violation of the charter they have signed, and therefore it is the right of the UN to defend the people who's rights are suffering

everyone should be treated equally by law and should be protected

everyone has a right to work and to protection against unemployment... this includes  the right... to equal pay for equal work

everyone has a right to an education

the states which you describe violate all the above clauses, therefore should be subject to sanctions until ocrrections are made

however, if the states are not members, the UN can do nothing more that issue moral condemnations

i also agree with fae/nofx, that for most people, outside of california is foreign policy

[Individualityy]

I feel extremely bad for those muslim women who are forced to cover their heads and can't go out with the permission of their husbands. I mean sure, it's their culture, but women are people too! Some cultures just act like women are property, merely to be handed from her father to her husband and just sit at home taking care of kids.

Places like Morocco and such have muslim women who can roam the streets as they please without a burka on, so I'm glad finally..some change is happening.

[innovation]

yes, mindy the un should have the right, as if the country is a member, they have apprroved the declaration for human rights, which covers womens rights

these countries are in violation of the charter they have signed, and therefore it is the right of the UN to defend the people who's rights are suffering
the states which you describe violate all the above clauses, therefore should be subject to sanctions until ocrrections are made

however, if the states are not members, the UN can do nothing more that issue moral condemnations

i also agree with fae/nofx, that for most people, outside of california is foreign policy

but no nation follows everything stated in the declaration.. and it's interpreted in so many different ways, too. well, my conference is tomorrow, so wish me luck, kids!

[racoons > you]

good luck. but yes, there are different interpretations, but that is a direct violation, which is different

[sammi rules you]

the way i see it is, if our president is allowed to run his country based on his religious beliefs, why can't the rulers of other countries?

it would be hypocritical for us to go in and change their religious beliefs just because we don't agree.

[sammi rules you]

the way i see it, if our president is allowed to run his country based on his religious beliefs, why aren't leaders of other countries?

[Loff]

The president doesnt run the country based on his religious beliefs.

They effect his moral judgement, but he hasn't forced the people to be of a creed. Not yet that is

[sammi rules you]

then what is his reasoning for wanting a ban on gay marraiges, might i ask?

oh, because god doesn't approve?

[innovation]

the president doesn't impose his faith on everyone in the nation... but let's get back to women's rights. anywho, i'm leaving in 1.5 hours.

[Loff]

The officials are elected due to moral background. The president's moral background is that he attends church.

His judgements are inevetibly curved by his religion, but he does not run the country through religion.

[Spirited Away]

but no nation follows everything stated in the declaration.. and it's interpreted in so many different ways, too. well, my conference is tomorrow, so wish me luck, kids!

Thus instead of enforcing, they should encourage them more actively?