god, part 2 Options

[OriskybusinessO]

perhaps there is no point to further debating this topic.. although everyone does seem to enjoy it. i mean, most people have had too much influence already to convert to another religion (or just drop religion altogether.). besides, i believe that religions are important to society. it gives people morals, a reason not to do harmful things. if you don't mind my asking, where do atheists get their morals and values? i don't mean that scornfully; i'm just wondering.

yes, there are other ways to get morals, by your upbringing. My parents have raised me athiest, and i have more morals than the people at my school trying to 'convert' me. My parents have gone by what is right and what it wrong, no offense, but you dont need some book or some mysterious unseen figure telling you what to do. you should be able to make thoese descions by yourself. I think that life would be better if we all listened to something logical, evolution. I know religion is supposed to give you hope, faith, something to believe in, but in my opinion all it does is cause war, 'your not the same, race, have the same morals, not the same religion so im going to blow up your country.'

read this, and the article by george carlin

<!-- begin code provided by createblog.com --><br />In the Bullshit Department, a businessman can't hold a candle to a clergyman. 'Cause I gotta tell you the truth, folks. When it comes to bullshit, big-time, major league bullshit, you have to stand in awe of the all-time champion of false promises and exaggerated claims, religion. No contest. No contest. Religion. Religion easily has the greatest bullshit story ever told. Think about it. Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!<br /><br />But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can't handle money! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more. Now, you talk about a good bullshit story. Holy Shit!<br /><br />But I want you to know something, this is sincere, I want you to know, when it comes to believing in God, I really tried. I really, really tried. I tried to believe that there is a God, who created each of us in His own image and likeness, loves us very much, and keeps a close eye on things. I really tried to believe that, but I gotta tell you, the longer you live, the more you look around, the more you realize, something is f**ked up.<br /><br />Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed. Results like these do not belong on the résumé of a Supreme Being. This is the kind of shit you'd expect from an office temp with a bad attitude. And just between you and me, in any decently-run universe, this guy would've been out on his all-powerful ass a long time ago. And by the way, I say "this guy", because I firmly believe, looking at these results, that if there is a God, it has to be a man.<br /><br />No woman could or would ever f**k things up like this. So, if there is a God, I think most reasonable people might agree that he's at least incompetent, and maybe, just maybe, doesn't give a shit. Doesn't give a shit, which I admire in a person, and which would explain a lot of these bad results.<br /><br />So rather than be just another mindless religious robot, mindlessly and aimlessly and blindly believing that all of this is in the hands of some spooky incompetent father figure who doesn't give a shit, I decided to look around for something else to worship. Something I could really count on.<br /><br />And immediately, I thought of the sun. Happened like that. Overnight I became a sun-worshipper. Well, not overnight, you can't see the sun at night. But first thing the next morning, I became a sun-worshipper. Several reasons. First of all, I can see the sun, okay? Unlike some other gods I could mention, I can actually see the sun. I'm big on that. If I can see something, I don't know, it kind of helps the credibility along, you know? So everyday I can see the sun, as it gives me everything I need; heat, light, food, flowers in the park, reflections on the lake, an occasional skin cancer, but hey. At least there are no crucifixions, and we're not setting people on fire simply because they don't agree with us.<br /><br />Sun worship is fairly simple. There's no mystery, no miracles, no pageantry, no one asks for money, there are no songs to learn, and we don't have a special building where we all gather once a week to compare clothing. And the best thing about the sun, it never tells me I'm unworthy. Doesn't tell me I'm a bad person who needs to be saved. Hasn't said an unkind word. Treats me fine. So, I worship the sun. But, I don't pray to the sun. Know why? I wouldn't presume on our friendship. It's not polite.<br /><br />I've often thought people treat God rather rudely, don't you? Asking trillions and trillions of prayers every day. Asking and pleading and begging for favors. Do this, gimme that, I need a new car, I want a better job. And most of this praying takes place on Sunday His day off. It's not nice. And it's no way to treat a friend.<br /><br />But people do pray, and they pray for a lot of different things, you know, your sister needs an operation on her crotch, your brother was arrested for defecating in a mall. But most of all, you'd really like to f**k that hot little redhead down at the convenience store. You know, the one with the eyepatch and the clubfoot? Can you pray for that? I think you'd have to. And I say, fine. Pray for anything you want. Pray for anything, but what about the Divine Plan?<br /><br />Remember that? The Divine Plan. Long time ago, God made a Divine Plan. Gave it a lot of thought, decided it was a good plan, put it into practice. And for billions and billions of years, the Divine Plan has been doing just fine. Now, you come along, and pray for something. Well suppose the thing you want isn't in God's Divine Plan? What do you want Him to do? Change His plan? Just for you? Doesn't it seem a little arrogant? It's a Divine Plan. What's the use of being God if every run-down shmuck with a two-dollar prayerbook can come along and f**k up Your Plan?<br /><br />And here's something else, another problem you might have: Suppose your prayers aren't answered. What do you say? "Well, it's God's will." "Thy Will Be Done." Fine, but if it's God's will, and He's going to do what He wants to anyway, why the f**k bother praying in the first place? Seems like a big waste of time to me! Couldn't you just skip the praying part and go right to His Will? It's all very confusing.<br /><br />So to get around a lot of this, I decided to worship the sun. But, as I said, I don't pray to the sun. You know who I pray to? Joe Pesci. Two reasons: First of all, I think he's a good actor, okay? To me, that counts. Second, he looks like a guy who can get things done. Joe Pesci doesn't f**k around. In fact, Joe Pesci came through on a couple of things that God was having trouble with.<br /><br />For years I asked God to do something about my noisy neighbor with the barking dog, Joe Pesci straightened that cocksucker out with one visit. It's amazing what you can accomplish with a simple baseball bat.<br /><br />So I've been praying to Joe for about a year now. And I noticed something. I noticed that all the prayers I used to offer to God, and all the prayers I now offer to Joe Pesci, are being answered at about the same 50% rate. Half the time I get what I want, half the time I don't. Same as God, 50-50. Same as the four-leaf clover and the horseshoe, the wishing well and the rabbit's foot, same as the Mojo Man, same as the Voodoo Lady who tells you your fortune by squeezing the goat's testicles, it's all the same: 50-50. So just pick your superstition, sit back, make a wish, and enjoy yourself.<br /><br />And for those of you who look to The Bible for moral lessons and literary qualities, I might suggest a couple of other stories for you. You might want to look at the Three Little Pigs, that's a good one. Has a nice happy ending, I'm sure you'll like that. Then there's Little Red Riding Hood, although it does have that X-rated part where the Big Bad Wolf actually eats the grandmother. Which I didn't care for, by the way.<br /><br />And finally, I've always drawn a great deal of moral comfort from Humpty Dumpty. The part I like the best? "All the king's horses and all the king's men couldn't put Humpty Dumpty back together again." That's because there is no Humpty Dumpty, and there is no God. None, not one, no God, never was. In fact, I'm gonna put it this way. If there is a God, may he strike this audience dead! See? Nothing happened. Nothing happened? Everybody's okay? All right, tell you what, I'll raise the stakes a little bit. If there is a God, may he strike me dead. See? Nothing happened, oh, wait, I've got a little cramp in my leg. And my balls hurt. Plus, I'm blind. I'm blind, oh, now I'm okay again, must have been Joe Pesci, huh? God Bless Joe Pesci. Thank you all very much. Joe Bless You! <br /><!-- end code provided by createblog.com -->

[Loff]

I dont think religion is a bad thing, and George Carlin is looking at religion incorrectly.

[OriskybusinessO]

i know its comedy, but some of the stuff hes saying is so true...

[aznxdreamer]

someone should make a god 3. 25 pages..seriously.

[Spirited Away]

The first one lasted for 50+ pages.... I think we still have room for more. This topic is dead anyway.

[jenika]

I just don't see why you can't believe in God. Open up a bit, He's there.

do any of you remeber the columbine shooting?? well...i recently came across this site about a girl who was shot dead...she was a christian and she knew she was not going to live past 20...

rachel scott

[sammi rules you]

^....
what does that have to do with anything?

[OriskybusinessO]

yea, that has nothing to do with the quote, but how can you NOT see how someone cant beilieve in some imaginary guy in the sky, read my george carlin post.

[b0st0ngrl]

It's kind of funny how most of the Bible quotes I looked through are from the New Testament and none from the Old.

And some people don't believe in G-d. I do, but some people just don't. It's the way they are. You were brought up to believe in Him and maybe they weren't. Or maybe they just aren't as religous as you.
I used 'you' as a general term not pointing to one person

[fameONE]

Hey, guess what?!

I'm a Christian and believe little to none of whats in the bible. Whats in the bible won't sway my beliefs or opinions. However, I do believe in God.

[CreateBlob]

We can use the Bible to support the existence of God because the Bible has been found to contain truth.

Noah and the flood, the ark (as in boat), the wars ..

It's hard to believe that someone could have made up and falsely written that huge archive of chapters in ancient language.

As for me, I don't believe in some things the Bible says, but I believe what it means. The fires in hell? I don't believe that you'll be burnt eternally in hell. You'll feel something negative, doi. People compare heartache to .. *thinks for a long time* a sinking stone or something; extreme anger to the heart getting striked by lightning. Yeah I made that up. But you get the point. The six "days" God existed to create the galaxy - another metaphor. The trumpets that caused Jericho's walls to fall - maybe it actually was an earthquake - but planned by God.

[sadolakced acid]

the bible also says all males have one less rib.

the bible also says slavery is ok

the bible also says god is a rapist/ sexual offender.
the bible is also written with political reasons behind it.

it's easy to believe that could have been made up.
first, there was the truth.
then, there was the church.
and a need for more people to join,
and so they re-wrote it
to fit thier needs
for over 2000 years.

[fameONE]

the bible also says all males have one less rib. 

the bible also says slavery is ok

the bible also says god is a rapist/ sexual offender. 
the bible is also written with political reasons behind it.

it's easy to believe that could have been made up. 
first, there was the truth.
then, there was the church.
and a need for more people to join,
and so they re-wrote it
to fit thier needs
for over 2000 years.

[OriskybusinessO]

the bible also says all males have one less rib. 

the bible also says slavery is ok

the bible also says god is a rapist/ sexual offender. 
the bible is also written with political reasons behind it.

it's easy to believe that could have been made up. 
first, there was the truth.
then, there was the church.
and a need for more people to join,
and so they re-wrote it
to fit thier needs
for over 2000 years.

yes! so true, im putting this on my xanga...

[Azn Kid from NY]

delete

[Spirited Away]

Hey, guess what?!

I'm a Christian and believe little to none of whats in the bible. Whats in the bible won't sway my beliefs or opinions. However, I do believe in God.

Really... do you believe in Jesus Christ?

[sammi rules you]

Really... do you believe in Jesus Christ?

or rather; that jesus christ is our savior. if not, you might just be jewish.

[dahalfkoreanstyl]

the bible isnt the sole source for conviction, the holy spirit will move you

[sadolakced acid]

the bible isnt the sole source for conviction, the holy spirit will move you

is it a source at all?

holy spirit? move me? to what, think god is a strange person with multipule personalities?

please explain how the holy spirit will move me to believe in god. or was that just something the church said?

[Loff]

God isn't a person

The holy spirit believes in you, believes in you to believe in God. God lets you make up your own decisions, and won't try to get you to believe in God.

We are all souls possible of good and evil. We may do good, but it is self choice. God isn't going to give you baby steps.

Oh, want to mention this: Jesus was jewish. Christianity was just another sect of judaism. So when people say 'and the blood falls on your children' or something like that, it's very stupid. The normal Christian today is what is called 'gentile', or someone who isn't circumsized or jewish. In fact, all early Christians were jewish.

[Spirited Away]

The holy spirit believes in you, believes in you to believe in God.  God lets you make up your own decisions, and won't try to get you to believe in God.

Does He?

...what is the purpose of creating Heaven and allowing Hell to exist?

[Loff]

as incentive.

[sikdragon]

oh my gosh... you guys have taken a step backwards since ive been gone. this is ridiculous. let me break it down.

1.you cant learn as a skeptic. why is this, why is why is this? why is why is why is this? why is why is why is why is this? it's cumbersome and eliminates the whole point of actual curiosity.
2.sin and hell are just the absence of God just like cold is the absence of heat
3.george carlin gave up before he tried.
4.if you dont believe in God, that's fine. We still love you.
5.God does not rape. God does not force himself upon anybody.
6.the bible says that every man is free from his first breath and that no man is greater than the other.... indentity is an illusion.
7.the bible says he took a rib from adam. never says anything about taking the ribs out of all males. is there something that happens at birth with a surgeon and a scalpel in the chest that i dont know about? and if so how come there are more women than there are spare ribs?
8.Religion does not cause war, people cause war. it's the human condition.
9.there are no degrees of good and evil. there is good and there is contaminated. one teaspoon of yeast causes the entire loaf to rise.
10.if you dont believe in God then how can you debate his existence?

[sadolakced acid]

oh my gosh... you guys have taken a step backwards since ive been gone. this is ridiculous. let me break it down.

1.you cant learn as a skeptic. why is this, why is why is this? why is why is why is this? why is why is why is why is this? it's cumbersome and eliminates the whole point of actual curiosity.
2.sin and hell are just the absence of God just like cold is the absence of heat
3.george carlin gave up before he tried.
4.if you dont believe in God, that's fine. We still love you.
5.God does not rape. God does not force himself upon anybody.
6.the bible says that every man is free from his first breath and that no man is greater than the other.... indentity is an illusion.
7.the bible says he took a rib from adam. never says anything about taking the ribs out of all males. is there something that happens at birth with a surgeon and a scalpel in the chest that i dont know about? and if so how come there are more women than there are spare ribs?
8.Religion does not cause war, people cause war. it's the human condition.
9.there are no degrees of good and evil. there is good and there is contaminated. one teaspoon of yeast causes the entire loaf to rise.
10.if you dont believe in God then how can you debate his existence?

no, we've just had new people who don't bother reading the whole thread.


nice points, although i will have to argue 1, 2, 8, 9, and 10.

1. How is it you cannot learn by asking? "it just is" is not an answer. You cannot learn tradition, or scripture, by being a skeptic. However, you learn science, and math, and logic all by being a skeptic.

2. sin and hell are not a lack of god. if god is all-powerful, there is no such thing as lack of god. Sin, therefore, is something god doesn't want you to do, but will let you do anyways. not a lack of god. it is a creation of god, a part of god's earth. actions cannot be the lack of god.

hell, on the other hand, was also created by god. Why? advertising. To get you to follow what he says. Does the government create prisons? or are prisons the absence of the government?

8. people start war because of thier religious beliefs. Popes start wars when they tell people too. The structure of the church has the mechanism for war. War requires motivation, and religious reasons is one possible motivation.

9. I do not kill, i do not steal, i live a good life. But i am, according to the bible, evil. I opening reject god and jesus, and insult them. I sin. However, if you were to apply this filter to everyone, no one would be good.

in fact, the ten commandments have been re-worded to allow people to have sex. why? they want to. it's inticing.

10. sure i can. I don't believe in god, thus i do not use belief to argue. i use facts, and with facts i can show that god does not exist.

[innovation]

goodness, people. you'll never prove anything "universally true" because everyone's beliefs are so different. so just deal with it and get on with your lives. why must we continue arguing in this thread? clearly, it isn't getting anywhere because everyone is too stubborn to change his/her beliefs.