Log In · Register

 

Debate Rules

Here are the general forum rules that you must follow before you start any debate topics. Please make sure you've read and followed all directions.

Debate.

is it animal cruelty?
CrimsonArchangel
post Jan 26 2005, 09:14 PM
Post #1


Carried away
*****

Group: Member
Posts: 356
Joined: Feb 2004
Member No: 3,462



No, this is not about fur, or wool or anything like that.

Its about science. Many of you have had to dissect several creatures for bio class, most likely. Today I had to do the frog ringer lab, where a frog has its brain removed (is it really dead?) and then we have to dissect it and add chemicals to its heart to see what happens, then add a third one that will kill it.

Now I ask. Despite the fact that many of those animals are bred for that purpose, "to further science", should we use animals as dissection subjects? Or should we just make plastic models and the such?

Is it animal cruelty to breed animals for the purpose of being cut up by students just to learn?
 
 
Start new topic
Replies
LadyXTor
post Feb 9 2005, 12:22 AM
Post #2


Want fries with that?
*****

Group: Member
Posts: 692
Joined: Sep 2004
Member No: 50,652



People are saying that we don't dissect until animals dead, completely untrue. Many animals are tested on while they're awake, without any anesthesia. I think it is animal cruelty because animals cannot defend themselves and are tested on involuntarily. Why not test on humans? many people donate their bodies when they die for science to test on and dissect. After all, we are trying to get further knowledge for science for our human kind so why torture the animals for ourselves?
 
im2tall
post Feb 9 2005, 08:22 PM
Post #3


Senior Member
***

Group: Member
Posts: 71
Joined: Jan 2005
Member No: 80,428



wow... you kids are amazing... I didn't want to bother with this topic anymore due to your ignorance, but I just didn't want you young people grow up with misled information..

QUOTE(LadyXTor @ Feb 8 2005, 9:22 PM)
People are saying that we don't dissect until animals dead, completely untrue.  Many animals are tested on while they're awake, without any anesthesia.  I think it is animal cruelty because animals cannot defend themselves and are tested on involuntarily.  Why not test on humans?  many people donate their bodies when they die for science to test on and dissect.  After all, we are trying to get further knowledge for science for our human kind so why torture the animals for ourselves?
*


First of all, how the heck could people dissect something that is alive? It will be physically impossible to prohibit the animals from defending themselves or fighting during the procedure... and like I have mentioned before, there are laws that protect the rights of the animal and guidelines for using the animals for testing.

Second, most animal testing is done on a live animal. Dissection is only performed for learning the anatomy... it's one thing to look at a picture and another to actually see the inter-workings of anatomy. Could you say that you've been to Italy by just seeing the pictures? This is also why "plastics" won't work of learning the anatomy completely. Yes you CAN see what it looks like, but it's quite different to actually see it in person... Could you train a doctor by just looking at plastic human model? Would you want that doctor to do surgeries on you? I sure wouldn't...

Thirdly, humans are used for testing... more specifically on drug trials... most companies are required by FDA to conduct double-blind studies on human to show the effectiveness of the drug before it's approved... so to say that humans are being selfish by only practicing on helpless animals are quite misleading.

For those that are arguing that animals shouldn't be used for dissection purposes, let me ask you this. Would you feel comfortable, as a high school student, to perform dissections on a dead human body? If you are, then you should become a doctor. But most people at that age can't handle it and this is why animals are used for the purpose of learning anatomy. In addition, most school considers dissection as an option, meaning that you may opt out of the experience. So if you feel so bad about using the animals, then don't... Other people are actually eager to learn and get the first hand experience in seeing the anatomy in person. Just because you don't like smoking, it doesn't mean that you can force other people from smoking. What I'm trying to say is that, just because you consider using animal for testing and dissection purposes don't make it morally wrong.


QUOTE(MarchHare2UrAlice @ Feb 9 2005, 1:38 PM)
QUOTE
"and for live test subjects: the animals are bred for the purpose usually. "


well of course that makes it perfectly acceptable... jesus


Moral standards are based on social norms... you don't have to identify yourself with the social norm, but that doesn't change what's established by law what is ok and not ok. Again, there are laws that insures that the animals are treated respectfully.


It's easier to criticize something than providing solutions... if there are alternatives to animal testing for safety, then let's hear it... like sadolakced acid said, most medicines are based on tests performed by animals, including humans. If you don't like the fact that animals are being used for testing, then don't use the products like the animal rights group do... you don't have to wear animal tested cosmetics, but you should note that most vaccinations that you've received to protect your own health have been tested on animals before... this is the only reason why you are able to survive from previously deadly diseases... without small pox vaccines, you could actually die from getting small pox... heck, you can even die from flu if not treated.


Most of you are complaining and arguing based on what you've heard from someone or read on the internet... please educate yourselves properly by talking to someone that is actually in the field... it's ok to have your own ideas and opinions, but before your criticize, understand what you're trying to criticize.
 

Posts in this topic
CrimsonArchangel   is it animal cruelty?   Jan 26 2005, 09:14 PM
racoons > you   yes.   Jan 27 2005, 12:01 PM
karrar   It is animal cruelty,but you can not risk a Human...   Jan 27 2005, 05:17 PM
racoons > you   ^^ what kind of company, if its cosmetics then its...   Jan 27 2005, 05:23 PM
karrar   Human Genome project and stem cells still are not ...   Jan 27 2005, 05:29 PM
CrimsonArchangel   Humans *are* used for dissection. I've done it...   Jan 27 2005, 06:04 PM
Frankie   this is a good point. from someone else's poin...   Jan 27 2005, 06:29 PM
cRaZiiXbEauTiFul   ^^ agreed,...but wait...you take out the frogs bra...   Jan 27 2005, 06:57 PM
CrimsonArchangel   QUOTE(cRaZiiXbEauTiFul @ Jan 27 2005, 6:57 PM...   Jan 28 2005, 02:47 PM
sporadic   ........It was still alive....?   Jan 28 2005, 02:32 AM
Gypsy Eyes   Oi vey, i'm going o try not to go overboard on...   Jan 28 2005, 06:48 PM
racoons > you   ^^ i'll sign i will just say, that ive never ...   Jan 29 2005, 08:13 AM
sammi rules you   i don't think they're supposed to be alive...   Jan 29 2005, 11:20 AM
niez_cho   If the animals died naturally, then I think it...   Jan 30 2005, 03:49 AM
CrimsonArchangel   QUOTE(niez_cho @ Jan 30 2005, 3:49 AM)If the ...   Jan 30 2005, 11:36 AM
racoons > you   QUOTEi don't think they're supposed to be ...   Jan 30 2005, 10:27 AM
sammi rules you   QUOTE(MarchHare2UrAlice @ Jan 30 2005, 9:27 A...   Jan 30 2005, 11:55 AM
eunie03   I don't think you should do anything to ...   Jan 30 2005, 02:33 PM
Sumiaki   QUOTE(eunie03 @ Jan 30 2005, 2:33 PM)I don...   Jan 31 2005, 04:13 PM
CrimsonArchangel   QUOTE(eunie03 @ Jan 30 2005, 2:33 PM)I don...   Jan 31 2005, 05:23 PM
Spirited Away   QUOTE(CrimsonArchangel @ Jan 31 2005, 5:23 PM...   Jan 31 2005, 06:40 PM
CrimsonArchangel   QUOTE(uninspiredfae @ Jan 31 2005, 6:40 PM)Th...   Feb 1 2005, 06:38 PM
eunie03   QUOTE(CrimsonArchangel @ Jan 31 2005, 5:23 PM...   Feb 1 2005, 11:45 AM
racoons > you   QUOTEif you cut a worm in half it's still aliv...   Jan 30 2005, 02:40 PM
racoons > you   QUOTESame goes for the person who said "Let...   Feb 1 2005, 01:50 PM
eunie03   QUOTE(MarchHare2UrAlice @ Feb 1 2005, 1:50 PM...   Feb 1 2005, 04:06 PM
Spirited Away   You know, the blood and gore in movies can look re...   Feb 2 2005, 12:11 AM
Funky Buddha   What about vegetable cruelty? Plants too are livin...   Feb 2 2005, 12:23 AM
sadolakced acid   the contrast between disection models and the real...   Feb 2 2005, 12:25 AM
eunie03   QUOTE(sadolakced acid @ Feb 2 2005, 12:25 AM)...   Feb 2 2005, 06:50 PM
Spiritual Winged Aura   yea, all the ideas are pass by generations and peo...   Feb 2 2005, 12:31 AM
Spirited Away   QUOTEhow will doctors learn how find the gallbladd...   Feb 2 2005, 12:31 AM
racoons > you   QUOTEcosmetics MUST be tested, (or at least all ch...   Feb 2 2005, 12:10 PM
xcaitlinx   no, because you DONT DISSECT THEM ALIVE. unles...   Feb 2 2005, 04:33 PM
sammi rules you   QUOTE(caytexo @ Feb 2 2005, 3:33 PM)no, becau...   Feb 2 2005, 05:16 PM
smthngcrprategrl34   yea it does sound like that too me. 9th grade we h...   Feb 2 2005, 04:39 PM
im2tall   I'm sorry, but most of your comments are based...   Feb 2 2005, 10:55 PM
eunie03   QUOTE(sadolakced acid)Humans and animals are not e...   Feb 3 2005, 12:25 AM
sadolakced acid   im2tall, you know that formaldehyde isn't actu...   Feb 2 2005, 11:25 PM
Spirited Away   QUOTE(sadolakced acid @ Feb 2 2005, 11:25 PM)...   Feb 2 2005, 11:44 PM
im2tall   QUOTE(sadolakced acid @ Feb 2 2005, 8:25 PM)i...   Feb 3 2005, 09:36 PM
eunie03   QUOTE(im2tall @ Feb 3 2005, 9:36 PM)Although ...   Feb 4 2005, 12:06 PM
xcaitlinx   QUOTE(eunie03 @ Feb 4 2005, 12:06 PM)Actually...   Feb 4 2005, 03:12 PM
xGlovex   yes.   Feb 3 2005, 12:20 PM
sadolakced acid   QUOTE(eunie03 @ Feb 2 2005, 11:25 PM)They are...   Feb 3 2005, 05:35 PM
xcaitlinx   QUOTE(sadolakced acid @ Feb 3 2005, 5:35 PM)a...   Feb 3 2005, 08:08 PM
Spirited Away   QUOTE(sadolakced acid @ Feb 3 2005, 5:35 PM)a...   Feb 4 2005, 12:14 AM
sadolakced acid   yes... but we are still human. loyalty to specie...   Feb 3 2005, 09:21 PM
CrimsonArchangel   Well.... I guess the debate has stemmed to the iss...   Feb 3 2005, 11:36 PM
racoons > you   QUOTEanyways:  an animal cannot speak to defe...   Feb 4 2005, 12:23 PM
CrimsonArchangel   QUOTE(MarchHare2UrAlice @ Feb 4 2005, 12:23 P...   Feb 4 2005, 02:13 PM
racoons > you   QUOTEYes, medical testing has more good reasons be...   Feb 4 2005, 03:15 PM
PUNKINitup   Yes it is. I'm a vegitarian, and the only reas...   Feb 4 2005, 03:16 PM
Stately Lover   QUOTEYes it is. I'm a vegitarian, and the only...   Feb 6 2005, 05:02 PM
sadolakced acid   oh yes. it's so cruel. i mean, helping propo...   Feb 9 2005, 12:02 AM
mysticalazxn   some animal must sacrafice for tthe shake of the h...   Feb 9 2005, 12:04 AM
LadyXTor   People are saying that we don't dissect until ...   Feb 9 2005, 12:22 AM
im2tall   wow... you kids are amazing... I didn't want t...   Feb 9 2005, 08:22 PM
sadolakced acid   because humans are not animals. disections of c...   Feb 9 2005, 12:48 AM
LadyXTor   yes, but that's only cats from shelters. Some...   Feb 9 2005, 12:57 AM
eunie03   QUOTE(LadyXTor @ Feb 9 2005, 12:57 AM)They ar...   Feb 9 2005, 02:43 AM
sadolakced acid   ok, so the cats will be involuntarily scaraficed f...   Feb 9 2005, 03:13 AM
eunie03   QUOTE(sadolakced acid @ Feb 9 2005, 3:13 AM)o...   Feb 12 2005, 01:04 AM
sadolakced acid   QUOTE(eunie03 @ Feb 12 2005, 12:04 AM)I don...   Feb 12 2005, 04:39 AM
CrimsonArchangel   QUOTE(sadolakced acid @ Feb 12 2005, 4:39 AM)...   Feb 12 2005, 04:48 PM
eunie03   QUOTE(sadolakced acid @ Feb 12 2005, 4:39 AM)...   Feb 12 2005, 11:09 PM
racoons > you   QUOTEand for live test subjects: the animals are b...   Feb 9 2005, 04:38 PM
sadolakced acid   QUOTE(MarchHare2UrAlice @ Feb 9 2005, 3:38 PM...   Feb 9 2005, 06:13 PM
LadyXTor   QUOTE(sadolakced acid @ Feb 9 2005, 6:13 PM)n...   Feb 9 2005, 06:34 PM
sadolakced acid   there are no medicines, that have not been tested ...   Feb 9 2005, 06:41 PM
x_angawhomps   What the hell, animals are bred for that purpose? ...   Feb 9 2005, 06:43 PM
CrimsonArchangel   WELL said. I actually believe all you say. I sta...   Feb 9 2005, 09:52 PM
Spirited Away   If it's so gruesome for high school students t...   Feb 10 2005, 12:47 AM
im2tall   QUOTE(uninspiredfae @ Feb 9 2005, 9:47 PM)If ...   Feb 10 2005, 09:32 PM
Spirited Away   QUOTE(im2tall @ Feb 10 2005, 9:32 PM)You are ...   Feb 10 2005, 11:21 PM
sadolakced acid   i agree plastic and silicone models can be good te...   Feb 11 2005, 02:59 AM
Spirited Away   Yes, yes. And once again, we can lessen the use of...   Feb 11 2005, 11:16 AM
racoons > you   QUOTEI belive laundry detergent is also tested on ...   Feb 11 2005, 11:51 AM
sadolakced acid   most school have classes sans disection. QUOTEi...   Feb 11 2005, 04:50 PM
angel_eyez102   Personaly, i don't mind doing things to alread...   Feb 11 2005, 10:26 PM
sammi rules you   ^ i think she means bestiality..which has nothing ...   Feb 12 2005, 10:43 AM
sammi rules you   ^ and, if a kid got in a fire and there's like...   Feb 12 2005, 05:11 PM
Paradox of Life   Bah, I'm a major animal supporter and I think ...   Feb 12 2005, 10:34 PM
lakerfever2476   I think it's wrong. Ever heard of posters? Dia...   Feb 13 2005, 01:41 AM
sadolakced acid   pyrithione zinc is the active ingredent in Garnier...   Feb 13 2005, 02:11 AM
sadolakced acid   The last post was just too long for an edit to add...   Feb 13 2005, 02:24 AM
racoons > you   ithink you've won the debate to be honest i r...   Feb 13 2005, 07:41 AM
eunie03   I am well aware of what emesis means... don't ...   Feb 13 2005, 11:58 AM
sadolakced acid   well that's not fun... someone should try t...   Feb 13 2005, 12:00 PM
racoons > you   cant be assed. revel in your victory QUOTEGod... ...   Feb 13 2005, 12:05 PM
eunie03   QUOTE(MarchHare2UrAlice @ Feb 13 2005, 12:05 ...   Feb 15 2005, 04:29 PM
sammi rules you   we don't want to. you're intelligent, we l...   Feb 14 2005, 07:54 PM
CrimsonArchangel   Well... I certainly cannot given that I agree with...   Feb 15 2005, 11:30 AM
racoons > you   can we close this? i mean, it would be nice to end...   Feb 15 2005, 11:31 AM
racoons > you   ^^ lookin forward to it...   Feb 16 2005, 06:49 AM


Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members: