Democracy & Strict Separation of Church and State Options

[*Kathleen*]

Resolved: Democracy is best served with a strict separation of church and state.

Okay...now...just post about what you believe in. I need some practice for the next two months' LD debate.

[*Kathleen*]

THAT RIGHT THERE is the exact reason there should be strict seperation between Church and State....America is a country that has people of MANY DIFFERENT BELIEFS AND RELIGIONS....THAT is why government officials CANNOT make laws or decisions BASED ON THEIR CHRISTIAN BELIEF....what are u a f**king idiot?

Dude. Who's the idiot that didn't even read my entire post? Then you would've been able to produce a somewhat-intelligent response without looking like a complete dumbass.

yepp... true. it also raises the question, "Which god?" even though some gods have different names. The term "One nation under God," can also raise further questions like, "Is God watching over other countries that we are enemies towards?". Christianity defines God's love as the most merciful love ever so it claims the Lord loves all, yet people today don't want the Lord to love enemy countries.

So remember, the term "One nation under God," brings up very complicated and sensitive questions.

1. Who's god?
2. Which god?
3. Is God watching over our enemy countries?
4. Is there a god at all (a question that agnognistics have to deal with when they hear that term)?

Right, but what I was trying to say (I'm never good at getting my actual point across, so I'll try again) was that "God" could mean anything in those phrases. If you look at the phrases themselves, they don't impose the Christian belief or imply it in itself. "God" is chosen here simply because there is no other common enough word to relate to - it just simply attempts to summarize everything which essentially implies looking to something to help us compel as a nation. Eh. Did you understand that?

[azn_r4pf4n]

Right, but what I was trying to say (I'm never good at getting my actual point across, so I'll try again) was that "God" could mean anything in those phrases. If you look at the phrases themselves, they don't impose the Christian belief or imply it in itself. "God" is chosen here simply because there is no other common enough word to relate to - it just simply attempts to summarize everything which essentially implies looking to something to help us compel as a nation. Eh. Did you understand that?

ohhh... i get you now. yeahhh.. i read about the pledge of allegiance on wikipedia somewhere.

(article about pledge of allegiance) (iite, these quotes on the bottom r all from wikipedia)

The Pledge of Allegiance was written for the popular children's magazine Youth's Companion by socialist author and Baptist minister Francis Bellamy on 11 October 1892. It was intended as a way to celebrate the 400th anniversary of Columbus arriving in the Americas and was first published on the following day, 12 October.

started on 1892. read more...

Bellamy's original Pledge read as follows: "I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

He was a Baptist, yet he didn't inclue the term "one nation under God."

In 1954, after a campaign initiated by the Roman Catholic Knights of Columbus, Senator Homer Ferguson of Michigan sponsored a bill to amend the pledge to include the words under God, to distinguish the U.S. from the officially atheist Soviet Union, and to remove the appearance of flag and nation worship. The phrase "nation, under God" previously appeared in Abraham Lincoln's Gettysburg Address, and echoes the Declaration of Independence. On June 8, 1954, Congress adopted this change.

I'm surprised Congress adopted that change. Didn't they remember the seperation of church and state?

Versions of the Pledge:

    * 1892 to 1923: "I pledge allegiance to my Flag and to the Republic for which it stands: one Nation, indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all."
    * 1923 to 1954: "I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands: one Nation, indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all."
    * 1954 to Present: "I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands: one Nation under God, indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all."

See here... The pledge of allegiance included the term "under God," around 1954.
As I said before, the Pledge of Allegiance was created during a time when most people were Christian. But when it was added the terms "under God," it was during a time when immagration wasn't allowed.

The original pledge did not contain the words "under God". Those words were added on 14 June 1954 when then U.S. President Dwight D. Eisenhower signed a bill into law that placed the words "under God" into the pledge.

iite.. as i said above... the term "Under God," was placed during 1954, a time when immagration wasn't allowed until around 1965.

Opposition to the ruling was vehement by many. Some conservative Christians, heirs to a tradition long believing itself persecuted by secularism in government, considered it an attack on faith in God. Some moderates and liberals felt that pursuing the matter was stirring up trouble, but many supported the ruling, especially atheists, secularists, and civil libertarians, most of them on the grounds that including the phrase "under God" in the Pledge violated the separation of church and state.

exactly the point. I'm Christian, but it is not an attack on the faith of God if you remove the term "Under God," because trusting on the Lord to protect you is a choice, not forced, because God's love is not forced.

want to read more of that article? here's the link again in case you wanna read it.