laws too strict? Options

[lovescream]

omigawd.. i just realized this topic. reminds me that i debating...

anyhoo, in ur country, do you think that laws are too strict?
like here in the US about gay mariage? that's strict.. i mean like i saw on someone's siggy, marriage is about love, not gender, age, or whatever. =\ it's their choice... not the person who made the damn law.

[Spirited Away]

You obviously still don't get it. I was hoping going at things word for word would make things simpler for you, but what a disappointment that there's still that misunderstanding.

[quote]you look at things word for word, eh? holy moly. and you think i'm arrogent haha, good one. you're getting way to into things, because when i said you didn't get the concept of love i meant it as in i dont htink you relize that marrage is a comitment for one another...and it shouldn't be f**king stopped. human f**king rights! go ahead, incests, marry! who f**king cares, how does it concern you?!
[/quote]

First, I don't think you're "arrogent" just for the heck of it, I think you're arrogant for thinking that you would understand love better than the next person. It's arrogant for you to think that you know one truth and ignore what the truth is to other people.

Not only do you not understand that love is different for everyone you also don't understand that marriage is different for everyone. Once again, there are fundamentals such as loyalty, trust and all that jazz, but there are other requirements. Your ideal mate would be different from another girl's so you can't say that marriage is just about commitment. To some people, marriage is a holy deal and others it's just commitment, and to others its love and everything else. It's funny that you try to say that marriage is commitment when commitment doesn't mean marriage.

What I mean is simple, marriage doesn't mean commitment. There are plenty of people who are married to each other who commit adultery. And before you even say that those people are not homosexuals, what would make a homosexual not cheat on their spouse? I'm certain that you do not have proof that homosexuals never cheat on their partners.

I guess you spend too much time in your little world to really look at the real world. People influence each other. Things one person do may have a direct or indirect affect on another person. The world is big, not so tiny that what you do don't affect anyone else. So, what I mean to say is, homosexual rights or human rights in general affects me. ALL LAWS affects me. That's why there is a concern, if not, then all is just dandy.

[quote]While all people are created equal, not all ideas or behaviors are equal.
It "appears" that you are being very stubborn about this issue.
now lets see...what points have you made?
-it would give incests rights? hmm
-that it would be hard to make the transition? hmmm
-umm..its been going on a long time?
oh, i see. very good reasons why gays shouldn't have the right to marry who they would like.[/quote]

... you have very poor reading skills along with comprehension skills. Sorry.

If my words can be summed up to just " it would give incest rights" then I would have said JUST THAT. Please don't try to summarize my words, it just seems wrong coming from you.

What I did ask you about incest was why you think incest is different from homosexuality. The point of the question was to make a parallel to homosexuality and straight people. As in, if you think incest was different, then it would be okay for straight people to think of homosexuality as different.

As for "it would be hard to make the transition", do you disagree? I don't understand your sarcasm as it was very unfounded. Why would it be easy to just embrace homosexuality? If someone dislike eating brocoli, you can't make that person change their mind with a snap or by just telling them that YOU like it. It all depends on that person to change their mind.

All in all, just don't try to summarize what I've said just quote and point out where you disagree.

[quote]different as in the are 2 different subjects and are being compared. incests can do what they'd like, not being married wont stop them. but hey if they wanna get married, go for it.[/quote]

Why is that different from what homosexuals can do? Homosexuals can do what they like and not being married won't stop them or change them either? So I really don't see any difference. Perhaps you'll elaborate?

[quote]yes i suppose your right. i meant--gays and incests are different. because gays are not related...get it  but hey if you wanna marry a family member.. go for it...like i said...[/quote]

That is different because they're not related? Well, homosexuals differ from straight people because they're not opposite sex. The one, and most important, thing that they share is LOVE, so why are they different? The point of this whole argument is love so why does it matter that they're related?

By the way, I hope you mean "you" generally because it wouldn't do for you to think that I would want to marry anyone of my relation.


[quote]yes and the laws were changed and now the country has improved a lot getting rid of the discriminist laws. and same thing would hopfully happen with gay rights. of course it would be hard to do at first, like stopping segreagation, but in the end it would be worth it.[/quote]

But that's what I've been trying to tell you. Things like this takes TIME. The whole "hard to make the transitition" is true because this is how things work in life. People think differently and it will take time for everyone to be okay with it. But even in these days there are STILL racism, so I don't think that things will be easy for them.


[quote]who said it would be simple?  so it may be hard, but in the end it was worth it for other races.[/quote]

Once again, the point of my comment was that it would be hard for people to change. You obviously agree so I don't see why you would even want to argue with that.

[quote]of course not every human will think that. but obviously many dont like the people disagreeing with gay marrages either. yes, love is different for everyone, but WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH ANYTHING?! GAYS NEED THEIR f**kING RIGHTS END OF STORY. yes some people won't agree, but tons of people don't agree with whats going on now.  [/quote]

I think I already told someone this... Disagreeing with people who are against is fine, but it would be such hypocrisy. And here's why:

When you want to show someone that they're wrong you don't just point a finger and say that they're wrong and not explain why. That would just make the other side angry at you and be stubborn about their views. Instead of that, you MUST LEAD and be a good example. If you show tolerance to people who are against it then others will follow because it isn't right to discriminate.

They way I see it, I wouldn't be convinced of anything if you just yell in my face that something's wrong, I would listen to your side if you were more patient.


[quote]so? of course there have been arranged marrages..what again does that have to do with anything? so some marrages in the past were arranged...so what? we should try to fix our mistakes rather then keep them going. i think many people are aware that banning marrages for gays are just gonna blow up in there faces as the numbers increase.[/quote]

... This is what I meant by poor comprehension skills. I didn't say that for no reason or for you to say what you said because that wasn't even close to the point, my point was it's nothing new that marriage has been regulated. The question was more rhetorical than degrading. It was to also point out the fact that things do change with time. We no longer have arrange marriages like people in the past, but the idea isn't completely that old.

[quote]
there shouldn't be f**king limits on love. do you atleast see my side?
there shouldn't be limits. get it? [/quote]

Maybe I should make this clear... I'm neither pro or anti the whole thing. I believe that there are exceptions to everything including marriages of ALL RACES, AGE, GENDER.. etc.

You don't need to ask if I "get it" either as I can assure you that I've been involved in these type of debates for a long while.

[quote]being gay is not a choice you make, and you shouldn't be punished for being who you are. people should be free to be who they are and express themselves without fear of discrimism. and gay rights would definitly help that over time. sure it would be hard, but if it owuld make the environment better for that amount of people we should do it. we should try to go the 'easy way out' and just tyr to ignore it. gays and lesbians are rapidly increasing, and just to put that issue aside wont solve anyhting.[/quote]

*SIGH*, the nature vs nurture side of the controversy is still open for debates. Both sides are proven but it depends on which side a person chooses to believe.

[quote]by the way. i'm only stating my opinions on gay marrages, so keep the insults to the side  thats pretty rude considering we are in a debate and of course we will see things differently, no reason to call names. and you misunderstood the concept of love thing obviously, just had to twist all my words, eh? and just because you use the time to use perfect grammar and what not, doesn't mean your right. =][/quote]

Actually, correct grammar just makes things easier for everyone to understand. If you think that I use it because I feel I'm right... that's just pretty sad, but oh well.

I called you names...??? Ah, you mean the ignorant thing. You should eat your owns words because you started it =]. When we discuss love or any other philosophical topic, there usually isn't a right or wrong answer and yet you seemed to think that you had the right answer to it. That's pretty ignorant to me.

And you still insist that I don't understand love. That's also why I think you're arrogant. You seem to think you have the answer to what love is... hahaha... You might as well answer the question "what is the meaning of life". I'm sure you have the right answer for youself, but you certainly do not have the aswner for everyone else.








[quote]Yeah, but people in general can get married to a person they love (or not even some one they love, they can just get married) What makes homosexuals any different from that? [/quote]

You haven't answered my question and I can scarely answer yours because I don't understand it. Rephrase, please?




Look at this topic, it's just another homosexual marriage one. I knew this would happen and I actually had a hand in it... haha.