Affirmative Action, i had to Options

[onenonly101]

Should Affirmative Action be outlawed?

I want to hear what others say before I comment

[onenonly101]

[quote]And what makes you think this only happens to black people? Certainly, it happens to white people as well, who may be regarded as snobs, etc. Or to Asian people. This can happen to anyone. Most importantly and furthermore, what makes you think that affirmative action isn't killing a fly with a sledgehammer?[/quote]

I never said it only happened to blacks. All I said was people hiding their racism in general.

[quote]No, I said SOME blacks aren't up to par and got in from affirmative action, which in the end hurt them because they flunked out.[/quote]

You never said some you said most blacks.
[quote]Moreover, most black students are harmed by AA. AA encourages black students to apply to schools where they will be academically isolated.This results in MASSIVE black dropout rates.[/quote]

[quote]Interesting, considering California's affirmative action was considerably WEAKENED in 1977 by the Supreme Court case of Bakke vs. U-Cal, and also the fact that affirmative action was continually weakened, until abolished by an OVERWHELMING majority of Californians in 1996.[/quote]

That does not refute that the class was strong and affirmative action was still in place, weakened or not.

[quote]A professor at Princeton calculated that 80% of students who apply to Ivy League universities meet minimum Academic Requirements... the fact remains that even if you meet the minimum, you will still feel academically isolated if everyone does better than you.
[/quote]

No, if 80% meet it on the minimum requirents then you wouldn't be isolated if you made the minimum requirements because only 20% of the entire school made above minimum.

[quote]Perhaps for being athletes, etc., but on average, in 1993 the average African American or Hispanic student was admitted with an SAT of 300 points lower and a GPA of 1.0 lower than a white or Asian student[/quote]

It doesn't matter if they were athletes or not because the fact still remains the same.

[quote]This only strengthens the white supremacist argument. It goes like this:

If people of different races are indeed different, then one can attribute differences in people to race. If this is true, it is clear that historically, white people have performed the best. Therefore, one could argue that the lower scorings of blacks can be attributed to race. In other words, saying that race is a handicap. Refer to my post above about why handicap affirmative action is moronic.[/quote]

Honest question, where did yo uget that outof my post? All i said was that people of different races are different. I never said anything about accomplishment or that anyone was inferior. You pulled that our of the sky.

[quote]If affirmative action really does help black people, then I ask-- why did over 45% (along with 75% of whites) vote in FAVOR of abolishing affirmative action? [/quote]

45% is still not half of the black population in California. Some people vote in favor to abolish it because they feel as though the program is making them inferior. What opinion polls also reveal, however, is that, by and large, voters do not know very much about what affirmative action comprises, the scope of federal affirmative action policies, and who benefits (or is hurt) by these policies. As a result, public opinion is shaped to a greater extent by social attitudes and beliefs about recipients (e.g., minorities and women) rather than by solid information about affirmative action policies themselves.

In America surveys show that most people want to maintain some form

[quote]and too many cases of white students using AA to hate blacks.
[/quote]

No, even before AA some white hated blacks. People cannot use AA as an excuse for their hate.

[quote]That simply isn't true. You have provided no evidence to support that. Presumptions are much more commonly based on things like what college you went to, etc. The underlying causes of inequality are underlying causes, not racism itself. The fact is -- in situations where a black person is IDENTICAL to a white person -- he is several times more likely to be offered a position, largely due to affirmative action.[/quote]

Presumptions are more commonly based on race. Presumptions come from the evident stereotypes are alrwdy presented. When someone see you they don't see what college you came from they see what you look like. And they base who you are since they do not know you on your race and how they have seen someone of your race act.

[quote]Even if affirmative action were abolished de facto, blacks would still have a tremendous advantage in the college admissions over whites, simply because colleges want to look diverse, and break out of the "Ivy Mold".[/quote]

Maybe the first few years because they will think the public will think that they accpeted those people in because of affirmative action. Then after it dies off, it will be back to the same, so I think. No college is diverse.

[quote]Which achieve the same amount of discrimination, just less honestly.
[/quote]

Goals and quotas are two different things.

[quote]Stop grouping people. I'm an Asian male, and I don't care how well another Asian male does. It's not a consolation to a white student who is rejected that ANOTHER white student got in... If all people of the same race were the same, the point would be moot because there would only be like 6 people in the world.[/quote]

First, don't be a hypocrite. You have been grouping people this entire debate. So you cannot try to call me out saying i am grouping people, when all i did was present a fact. That 95% of top corprate executive are white males, and that AA obvivously is not making a dent in that. So how is it hurting?

[quote]Who determines what unqualified is? Unqualifed means that you weren't good enough to get a position. If you needed affirmative action to get that position, then you were, by definition, unqualified. Your only qualification was a legal fiat.[/quote]

The hiring company decides what unqualified is. If the qualifcations for the job is a BS in Law and 3 years of legal work. And you fit the qualifications(because nowhere does it you have to be a certain race) then you are qualified for the job. And if you do not have a BS in LAw then you are unqualified so then you cannot make it into the job with or without AA.

[quote]Okay, fine. If racism is POWER AND DISCRIMINATION, then affirmative action is THE main source of racism in this country.[/quote]

No, because the people affirmative action are helping are NOT in power.
That is why the program was implicated to help a minority in ANY situtation get the representation they deserve and need.

Affirmative action works. There are thousands of examples of situations where people of color, white women, and working class women and men of all races who were previously excluded from jobs or educational opportunities, or were denied opportunities once admitted, have gained access through affirmative action. When these policies received executive branch and judicial support, vast numbers of people of color, white women and men have gained access they would not otherwise have had. These gains have led to very real changes. Affirmative action programs have not eliminated racism, nor have they always been implemented without problems. However, there would be no struggle to roll back the gains achieved if affirmative action policies were ineffective. Affirmative action programs have been effective in many areas of public life because they opened up opportunities for people who would not otherwise have them, including white women and men.

The original concept and idea of affirmative action is good. Though alot of the programs need to be redefined and mended.


I don't think the entire program will die out. Ibelieve that it will be restructured