Mosque next to Ground Zero in New York, Should it be allowed ? Options

[none345678]

There has been controversy about a Mosque being built next to Ground Zero (3 blocks away I believe). Should it be allowed?

I am kind of surprised there has yet to be a topic about it...if there is and I missed it my bad.

[mipadi]

I love how this controversy was sparked by a Tea Party nutcase who thinks that Elena Kegan is a Nazi and Obama is the love child of Malcolm X. Really says something about conservative ideology.

[Uronacid]

I love how this controversy was sparked by a Tea Party nutcase who thinks that Elena Kegan is a Nazi and Obama is the love child of Malcolm X. Really says something about conservative ideology.

Tell us what it says about all conservative ideology. Don't let my mind wander, I need to know.

speaking of conservatives, read this

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/10/28/...etics-politics/

I really don't understand how this is relative. Just because fox news says "something", doesn't mean it's conservative or liberal.

[mipadi]

Tell us what it says about all conservative ideology. Don't let my mind wander, I need to know.

Okay. We can start with the fact that conservative groups like the Tea Party actually have some level of respect for people like Pamela Geller, who have batshit crazy ideas. And I don't mean batshit crazy political ideas that happen to disagree with mine, but ideas that are purely insane -- ideas like "Obama is a Nazi". Remember all those Tea Party rallies where people morphed Obama into Hitler? For a group that values the past over progress, many conservatives seem to have little understanding of history -- and no sense of irony, either. What's more Nazi-like: Obama's health care plan, or Bush/Cheney's unilateral assault on two sovereign nations, and the legacy of torture -- and disrespect for the rule of law -- that they left behind? And let's talk about the Constitution for a second: conservatives generally tend to have respect for a strict reading of the Constitution, but none of them seemed to care that Bush/Cheney regularly ignored it. Or how Republican lawmakers passed the Defund ACORN Act, which was clearly unconstitutional. Where was respect for the Constitution then?

Or look at the respect among conservatives for people like Glen Beck, who is not only ignorant, but inconsistent. I don't have a link handy, but Jon Stewart had a great bit on Beck's criticism of the imam involved with the Park51 mosque. In August, Beck criticized the imam for making a comment along the lines of "perhaps America's foreign policy was partly responsible for 9/11" -- but this is something that Beck himself said back in April. I'll dig up the link if you want, because Beck's hypocrisy is amazing. His only consistency is his inconsistency. He's a man that's too stupid and too self-centered to even form a coherent political world view, and yet, conservatives actually listen to him. Contrast him to Bill O'Reilly, who actually is smart, but regularly spews lies or disingenuousness.

Or simply look at the inconsistency of a typical conservative viewpoint. I already mentioned the issue with the Constitution, but another conservative issue is, supposedly, budget reform. Conservatives denounced Obama's health care plan, which wasn't actually going to increase the budget deficit, but few conservatives are willing to suggest we should cut the military budget, which is, at best, roughly 20% of our federal budget and almost 40% of tax revenues [1], and has been rising 9% year-over-year in the past decade. Not to mention the waste -- the expense of the largely useless F-22 program is a great example. To my knowledge, Rand Paul is the only major conservative to suggest we should cut military spending. Because it's better to waste money on a stealth fighter that doesn't work, then let poor people have access to health care.

I won't even delve into the issue of the hard-on that many conservatives have for Sarah Palin.

Anyway, apologies that this post was rather stream-of-conscious. This isn't intended so much as a concise rebuttal as a mini-rant.

(Ha! How apropos: my magazine recently published a story about Glenn Beck.)

This post has been edited by mipadi: Nov 18 2010, 04:25 PM

[Uronacid]

Okay. We can start with the fact that conservative groups like the Tea Party actually have some level of respect for people like Pamela Geller, who have batshit crazy ideas. And I don't mean batshit crazy political ideas that happen to disagree with mine, but ideas that are purely insane -- ideas like "Obama is a Nazi". Remember all those Tea Party rallies where people morphed Obama into Hitler? For a group that values the past over progress, many conservatives seem to have little understanding of history -- and no sense of irony, either. What's more Nazi-like: Obama's health care plan, or Bush/Cheney's unilateral assault on two sovereign nations, and the legacy of torture -- and disrespect for the rule of law -- that they left behind? And let's talk about the Constitution for a second: conservatives generally tend to have respect for a strict reading of the Constitution, but none of them seemed to care that Bush/Cheney regularly ignored it. Or how Republican lawmakers passed the Defund ACORN Act, which was clearly unconstitutional. Where was respect for the Constitution then?

Or look at the respect among conservatives for people like Glen Beck, who is not only ignorant, but inconsistent. I don't have a link handy, but Jon Stewart had a great bit on Beck's criticism of the imam involved with the Park51 mosque. In August, Beck criticized the imam for making a comment along the lines of "perhaps America's foreign policy was partly responsible for 9/11" -- but this is something that Beck himself said back in April. I'll dig up the link if you want, because Beck's hypocrisy is amazing. His only consistency is his inconsistency. He's a man that's too stupid and too self-centered to even form a coherent political world view, and yet, conservatives actually listen to him. Contrast him to Bill O'Reilly, who actually is smart, but regularly spews lies or disingenuousness.

Or simply look at the inconsistency of a typical conservative viewpoint. I already mentioned the issue with the Constitution, but another conservative issue is, supposedly, budget reform. Conservatives denounced Obama's health care plan, which wasn't actually going to increase the budget deficit, but few conservatives are willing to suggest we should cut the military budget, which is, at best, roughly 20% of our federal budget and almost 40% of tax revenues [1], and has been rising 9% year-over-year in the past decade. Not to mention the waste -- the expense of the largely useless F-22 program is a great example. To my knowledge, Rand Paul is the only major conservative to suggest we should cut military spending. Because it's better to waste money on a stealth fighter that doesn't work, then let poor people have access to health care.

I won't even delve into the issue of the hard-on that many conservatives have for Sarah Palin.

Anyway, apologies that this post was rather stream-of-conscious. This isn't intended so much as a concise rebuttal as a mini-rant.

(Ha! How apropos: my magazine recently published a story about Glenn Beck.)

Beck is a bit aggravating to listen to at times. Even I have a difficult time listening to his show. I don't think I've mentioned that I've listened to Beck anyway. I mostly listen to Al Roney. You live in the capitol region. Check out AM 1300 at 2:30-6:00. He's a local conservative talk show host.

Other than Rush Limbaugh, I really don't listen to mainstream conservatives. Don't get me wrong either, I don't agree with everything that comes out of Rush Limbaugh's mouth. I find what he says entertaining and occasionally thoughtful. It's interesting to hear his point of view and try to figure out why he believes he is right.

Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin have very little to do with the Tea Party. They've ruined the Tea party by giving it a face. The point of the Tea Party was to NOT have a face or leader. Initially, it was the anonymity that made the Tea Party great. It was just a group of American's sick of the exorbitant gov't spending. That's all. Instead it became something bigger, and a bunch of meat-heads like Beck and Palin got involved. They've spoiled it.

This is one thing that Rush gets right. Rush understands that the Tea Party isn't about demographics, race, or uniformity. It's about freedom. It's about less gov't. That's all. He stay's out of the light of the Tea Party but encourages the free speech.

[mipadi]

Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin have very little to do with the Tea Party. They've ruined the Tea party by giving it a face. The point of the Tea Party was to NOT have a face or leader. Initially, it was the anonymity that made the Tea Party great. It was just a group of American's sick of the exorbitant gov't spending. That's all. Instead it became something bigger, and a bunch of meat-heads like Beck and Palin got involved. They've spoiled it.

You mean, it's a group of rich corporate backers like Koch Industries who want lower corporate taxes and lower taxes for the wealthy.

You live in the capitol region. Check out AM 1300 at 2:30-6:00. He's a local conservative talk show host.

I live in New York City, actually.

[Uronacid]

You mean, it's a group of rich corporate backers like Koch Industries who want lower corporate taxes and lower taxes for the wealthy.

Um... no that's not what I mean. I'm sure that rich corporate backers will benefit from lower corporate taxes just as we will when they buy products or use services. That cycle creates jobs.