socialism v. capitalism: Rating Options

[NoSex]

i view capitalism as a mode of economic & social infancy. i think that it is regressive to society, poisonous, & under-developing.

i point to these basic "flaws" in capitalism*:
1. the emphasis on profit as opposed to utility.
2. the creation of oligarchy & plutocracy.
3. the unfair/uneven distribution of wealth.
4. the creation of a significant class divide.
5. the inability of capitalism, alone, to provide the people with necessities.
6. the exploitation of the working class.
7. the existence of crime in excess, caused by class struggle, poverty, & proletariat anxiety.
8. the creation of an oppressive institution (i.e. the police state, the church, the education system) in order to secure profits to a specific & elite population.

i point to these basic "benefits" in socialism*:
1. the emphasis on utility.
2. the destruction of plutocracy & (in many forms) oligarchy.
3. the fair distribution of wealth.
4. the destruction of a significant class divide.
5. the ability of socialism to provide for its people, necessities.
6. the affirmation of the working class.
7. the absence of crime invoked by squalor & proletariat anxiety.
8. the destruction of specific oppressive institutions & the opportunity to reform the state (i.e. despite the pull of capital & profits).

DISCUSS.

*quotation marks provided for argument's sake. whatever.

[NoSex]

In capitalism you're given the opportunity to make the best of your life or waste it

uhm. no. you're a dumb ignorant f*ck.
if you weren't born in your safe-white-suburban home, of course you wouldn't be saying anything like that.
the ghetto is a real & geographically divining power. if you are born into poverty, it is tremendously unlikely that you can rise out of destitution by mere will-power alone (that's given that "will-power to achieve" has been taught to you in the first place). you see, as white kids... we learned @ an early age the importance of education, office jobs, & rock & roll music. a lot of kids don't have that luxury (& yes, that is a luxury). try "learning yourself" when your school is pencil-less, your mother is sick (& can't afford health insurance) & can't work, so you have to pick up an after-school job that, eventually, turns into an other-than-school job, just so that you can feed yourself & your dying mother. where the f*ck is the time for "succeeding" in avoiding the drugs that are all around you, the violence outside your window (caused by class divide, & poverty), trying to get by, & not being able to attend a school (that is underfunded & sucks ass anyways)? like, don't you understand that poverty & failure is geographic & wealth & success is hereditary?

I don't feel that society should have to pay for this.

pay for what? the violence, crime, sickness, & social ills caused by a class struggle - caused by a government that doesn't provide the necessities of life for its people? a society is better if its parts (the people that make up a society) are happy & healthy. there is a reason people rob one another & fight & die... & it's not because they have everything they need & feel safe. maslow's hierarchy (of needs) much?

I have never seen anyone who's single, has a stable job, works every day, yet cannot get by.

then you a metric-f*ck-ton whiter than i could have ever imagined. not to mention stupid as f*ck... way to "educate yourself," dummy.
read "nickle & dimed" by barbara ehrenreich

They still have the option to educate themselves.

Education is a necessity. If you don't educate yourself then you will fail at life.

you realize someone needs to grow up in an environment that teaches that in order for it to actually happen? kids don't just succeed in school because they try their hardest & provide for themselves all of the proper equipment & motivation (needed) to succeed. they have to be taught by their environment to be good @ school, & be good @ being autodidactic. if you live in destitution, this sort of attitude (achievement oriented) is going to be very rare.

not to mention, no one gives a f*ck if you can do this or that... or know this or that... without a reputation & without a piece of paper (diploma) to demonstrate your aptitude, f*ck all to trying to get a job. & diplomas aren't f*cking cheap.

even if you can miraculously educate yourself... that doesn't mean you can do shit without a piece of paper that says you can "do shit."

URONACID... sounn lyke nosex n james..
dam REDNECK..

what the f*ck?! you're such a stupid mother f*cker. get the f*ck out.

p.s. did you two even read the first post of this thread? way to f*ck up!

[mipadi]

read "nickle & dimed" by barbara ehrenreich

I'm glad you brought this up, because I was going to mention this myself. I actually had the pleasure of meeting Ehrenreich last year -- she came to give a talk on these issues. Unlike most of the people posting in this thread (no offense, but it appears to be the truth), Ehrenreich did attempt to live in minimum-wage jobs for several months, and chronicled the "adventure" in her book. Let's just say she wasn't terribly successful.

I still assert the point, too, that the very idea of capitalism undermines the fabric of society. The whole point of humans forming societies was to share limited resources, instead of fighting over them. It's shocking that we've swung the other way and actually encourage Americans to compete with one another over resources, rather than just helping each other out so everyone's life can be a bit better.

I know there are practical reasons why socialist societies can become corrupt, but no one's presented compelling evidence that capitalist societies aren't just as corrupt.