Want to pay more for your cellphone bill? Obama's got your back!, Obama is a asswipe Options

[illriginal]

Obama Proposes New Wireless Spectrum Fee

Under President Obama's budget submitted to lawmakers, wireless carriers such as Verizon, AT&T and Sprint would be hit with huge fees for the right to hold a spectrum license. The fee per carrier would be $50 million this year and eventually rise to $500 million per carrier, per year within a decade. Users fear carriers will add the new fee to phone bills.

The Obama administration Feb. 26 proposed to tax wireless carriers as much as $550 million per year for the right to hold a spectrum license. The fee would be in addition to the billions carriers have already paid in spectrum auctions held by the FCC (Federal Communications Commission).

Under the budget outline provided by the Obama administration, the new fees would be used to help reduce the $1.7 trillion national deficit. The proposal before Congress would charge carriers like AT&T, Verizon and Sprint $50 million this year. The fee per carrier would jump to $200 million in 2010 and eventually rise to $550 million by 2019.

According to the OMB (Office of Management and Budget), the fees would generate $4.8 billion over the next 10 years.

Alright one more negative proposal like this coming from Obama and I will lose all support of Obama.

[illriginal]

I won't be surprised that the taxes on cigarettes and soda goes up either, that won't effect my house hold but it'll surely piss me off.

But that money would go to good use with Obama in office? We won't be wasting it on war, and we won't be wasting it on medicare (as much as we did with every other president in history :O).

So it would go to good things? I mean really.. it's just an extra $60 a year.. there's just not much you could buy nowadays with $60.. unless you wanna get fat and buy 60 candy bars. Maybe 1 load of gas :P

Those taxes are for the "bail outs".... the bail outs of companies that completely screwed up and now we have to pay up for their screw ups. Like it was our fault in the first place

And what's an extra $60 a year? The taxes on cell phones? It'll be more like $30-50 more each month.

Don't forget that those cell phone companies are going to want to make profits. And the higher the taxes the more they're gonna want for their own pocket.

[brooklyneast05]

And what's an extra $60 a year? The taxes on cell phones? It'll be more like $30-50 more each month.

what math brought you to this conclusion that each user would be paying 30-50 dollars more a month

[brooklyneast05]

what math brought you to this conclusion that each user would be paying 30-50 dollars more a month

i said what MATH, what math did you use to get the numbers. i don't care if it's 20, 30, 40, 50 whatever, i'm asking what math did you use to get whatever number you're saying.

[illriginal]

i said what MATH, what math did you use to get the numbers. i don't care if it's 30, 40, 50 whatever, i'm asking what math did you use to get whatever number you're saying.

I don't have the math because each cell phone company has different prices at different rates with different packages, it's too much of a variable for me to sit there and try to calculate the whole thing... Think about it though, they were being hit with 50 million in taxes, now they're aiming to tax cell phone companies up to $550 million (500 million more dollars) within the next few years.

[mipadi]

I don't have the math because each cell phone company has different prices at different rates with different packages, it's too much of a variable for me to sit there and try to calculate the whole thing... Think about it though, they were being hit with 50 million in taxes, now they're aiming to tax cell phone companies up to $550 million (500 million more dollars) within the next few years.

$550 million sounds like a lot, but as of 2005, the US had 201 million cell phone subscribers [1]; I'm guessing that number has gone up since 2005, but let's just use the figure 201 million for the purposes of discussion. Assuming the cost of the tax is applied equally to each user, that's only $2.74 per user per year.

Now, there are a lot of factors to consider here. Probably users will be charged unequally, and the cell phone companies might use this as an excuse to charge more than just the cost of the tax. But still, I really don't see that translating to "$20-$35 per month" -- that's $240-$420 per year, which is 87x-153x the actual cost of the tax. Aside from the math, simple economics says that cell phone providers would lose customers if prices suddenly jumped by $20-$35 a month. I don't think cell phone service is an inelastic good.

[illriginal]

$550 million sounds like a lot, but as of 2005, the US had 201 million cell phone subscribers [1]; I'm guessing that number has gone up since 2005, but let's just use the figure 201 million for the purposes of discussion. Assuming the cost of the tax is applied equally to each user, that's only $2.74 per user per year.

Now, there are a lot of factors to consider here. Probably users will be charged unequally, and the cell phone companies might use this as an excuse to charge more than just the cost of the tax. But still, I really don't see that translating to "$20-$35 per month" -- that's $240-$420 per year, which is 87x-153x the actual cost of the tax. Aside from the math, simple economics says that cell phone providers would lose customers if prices suddenly jumped by $20-$35 a month. I don't think cell phone service is an inelastic good.

I totally agree.. but then again, look at how many Americans are leaving the U.S. as of now because of the economic issues. I could only imagine that cell phone companies are gonna be forced to up their prices which will actually cause a lot of their customers to look for other providers or to simply stop using cell phones. Cell phone companies are gonna be stuck between a rock and a hard place.

And I shouldn't have thrown a number out there... I was just throwing a random assumed number out there for how much more customers will be paying.

[mipadi]

I totally agree.. but then again, look at how many Americans are leaving the U.S. as of now because of the economic issues.

Really...? Do you have any data to back up that claim? Because I really don't think Americans are fleeing the US en masse. Anyway, where would they go? America isn't the only country suffering from economic problems right now -- almost every developed country is, to some degree.

And I shouldn't have thrown a number out there... I was just throwing a random assumed number out there for how much more customers will be paying.

I get the feeling that most of your facts and data fall under the category of "random assumed".

[illriginal]

Really...? Do you have any data to back up that claim? Because I really don't think Americans are fleeing the US en masse. Anyway, where would they go? America isn't the only country suffering from economic problems right now -- almost every developed country is, to some degree.

I sure do!
http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/2008/0...l?s_cid=et-0729

This is an article that's not even including today's Americans who are closing up their businesses and leaving the U.S.

Well Canada's doing well right now, India supposedly is too, uhm... Iran as well, Venezuela, Cuba... Isle of Man. The only countries that are suffering are those who are well connected to the U.S., economically speaking.

I get the feeling that most of your facts and data fall under the category of "random assumed".

Far from it.

[mipadi]

I sure do!
http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/2008/0...l?s_cid=et-0729

This is an article that's not even including today's Americans who are closing up their businesses and leaving the U.S.

That article's from July. Before the financial meltdown, and before this new tax. So if the cell phone companies were doing okay before, even with an alleged "exodus" of Americans, why would that change now?

[illriginal]

That article's from July. Before the financial meltdown, and before this new tax. So if the cell phone companies were doing okay before, even with an alleged "exodus" of Americans, why would that change now?

Before the financial melt down? Are you kidding me? We were in recession since 2004, that should give anyone a good reason to start preparing to move the f*ck out, unless of course you're a multimillionaire. Start thinking of your future and pay attention to the politics being played.

Why would that change now? Because people are realizing that the government is going to be taxing them horrifically! Do you think like.. on a bigger scale before replying? Or do you think in the present time? If you're thinking in present terms and not thinking on a bigger scale into the future, then I'll fully understand as to why you're trying to mock the fact that Americans are leaving the U.S. because of this financial crises.

Read this, maybe this will give you an idea. This was a legitimate email that was sent to all the employees in the company (which was modified to protect the name of the company and the gentleman):

To All My Valued Employees,

There have been some rumblings around the office about the future of this company, and more specifically, your job. As you know, the economy has changed for the worse and presents many challenges. However, the good news is this: The economy doesn't pose a threat to your job. What does threaten your job however, is the changing political landscape in this country.
However, let me tell you some little tidbits of fact which might help you decide what is in your best interests.

First, while it is easy to spew rhetoric that casts employers against employees, you have to understand that for every business owner there is a back story. This back story is often neglected and overshadowed by what you see and hear. Sure, you see me park my Mercedes outside. You've seen my big home at last years Christmas party. I'm sure; all these flashy icons of luxury conjure up some idealized thoughts about my life.

However, what you don't see is the back story.

I started this company 28 years ago. At that time, I lived in a 300 square foot studio apartment for 3 years. My entire living apartment was converted into an office so I could put forth 100% effort into building a company, which by the way, would eventually employ you.

My diet consisted of Ramen Pride noodles because every dollar I spent went back into this company. I drove a rusty Toyota Corolla with a defective transmission. I didn't have time to date. Often times, I stayed home on weekends, while my friends went out drinking and partying. In fact, I was married to my business -- hard work, discipline, and sacrifice.

Meanwhile, my friends got jobs. They worked 40 hours a week and made a modest $50K a year and spent every dime they earned. They drove flashy cars and lived in expensive homes and wore fancy designer clothes. Instead of hitting the Nordstrom's for the latest hot fashion item, I was trolling through the discount store extracting any clothing item that didn't look like it was birthed in the 70's. My friends refinanced their mortgages and lived a life of luxury. I, however, did not. I put my time, my money, and my life into a business with a vision that eventually, some day, I too, will be able to afford these luxuries my friends supposedly had.

So, while you physically arrive at the office at 9am, mentally check in at about noon, and then leave at 5pm, I don't. There is no "off" button for me. When you leave the office, you are done and you have a weekend all to yourself. I unfortunately do not have the freedom. I eat, and breathe this company every minute of the day. There is no rest. There is no weekend. There is no happy hour. Every day this business is attached to my hip like a 1 year old special-needs child. You, of course, only see the fruits of that garden -- the nice house, the Mercedes, the vacations... you never realize the back story and the sacrifices I've made.

Now, the economy is falling apart and I, the guy that made all the right decisions and saved his money, have to bail-out all the people who didn't. The people that overspent their paychecks suddenly feel entitled to the same luxuries that I earned and sacrificed a decade of my life for.

Yes, business ownership has its' benefits but the price I've paid is steep and not without wounds.

Unfortunately, the cost of running this business, and employing you, is starting to eclipse the threshold of marginal benefit and let me tell you why:

I am being taxed to death and the government thinks I don't pay enough. I have state taxes. Federal taxes. Property taxes. Sales and use taxes. Payroll taxes. Workers compensation taxes. Unemployment taxes. Taxes on taxes. I have to hire a tax man to manage all these taxes and then guess what? I have to pay taxes for employing him. Government mandates and regulations and all the accounting that goes with it, now occupy most of my time. On Oct 15th, I wrote a check to the US Treasury for $288,000 for quarterly taxes. You know what my "stimulus" check was? Zero. Nada. Zilch.

The question I have is this: Who is stimulating the economy? Me, the guy who has provided 14 people good paying jobs and serves over 2,200,000 people per year with a flourishing business? Or, the single mother sitting at home pregnant with her fourth child waiting for her next welfare check? Obviously, government feels the latter is the economic stimulus of this country.

The fact is, if I deducted (Read: Stole) 50% of your paycheck you'd quit and you wouldn't work here. I mean, why should you? That's nuts. Who wants to get rewarded only 50% of their hard work? Well, I agree which is why your job is in jeopardy.

Here is what many of you don't understand ... to stimulate the economy you need to stimulate what runs the economy. Had suddenly government mandated to me that I didn't need to pay taxes, guess what? Instead of depositing that $288,000 into the Washington black-hole, I would have spent it, hired more employees, and generated substantial economic growth. My employees would have enjoyed the wealth of that tax cut in the form of promotions and better salaries. But you can forget it now.

When you have a comatose man on the verge of death, you don't defibrillate and shock his thumb thinking that will bring him back to life, do you? Or, do you defibrillate his heart? Business is at the heart of America and always has been. To restart it, you must stimulate it, not kill it. Suddenly, the power brokers in Washington believe the poor of America are the essential drivers of the American economic engine. Nothing could be further from the truth and this is the type of change you can keep.

So where am I going with all this?

It's quite simple.

If any new taxes are levied on me, or my company, my reaction will be swift and simple. I fire you. I fire your co-workers. You can then plead with the government to pay for your mortgage, your SUV, and your child's future. Frankly, it isn't my problem any more.

Then, I will close this company down, move to another country, and retire. You see, I'm done. I'm done with a country that penalizes the productive and gives to the unproductive. My motivation to work and to provide jobs will be destroyed, and with it, will be my citizenship.

So, if you lose your job, it won't be at the hands of the economy; it will be at the hands of a political hurricane that swept through this country, steamrolled the constitution, and will have changed its landscape forever. If that happens, you can find me sitting on a beach, retired, and with no employees to worry about.. ..

Signed,
Your boss

we have to get rid of our national deficient somehow.

Bailouts are NOT the way to go about it. This is America with a Capitalist economy, a free market. If companies fail, they are to fail, bailouts are completely unAmerican and proves that our economy can in fact be manipulated like a puppet.

Wanna know how to pay off deficit? Create more jobs and invent more products. Without that... we'll never prosper. Taxing the citizens is the worst way to pay off a deficit that they themselves have never caused in the first place. I'm a human being who lives in a country in which WE control the government, not the other way around. We DON'T depend on the government, the government depends on US!

So you guys can go ahead, dance around, and not mind being forced to pay extra money out of pocket, but me and many others... we're humans and this country isn't the place to be. There are many countries across the world that DON'T have taxes. And don't treat their citizens the way we're being treated.

[mipadi]

Why would that change now? Because people are realizing that the government is going to be taxing them horrifically! Do you think like.. on a bigger scale before replying? Or do you think in the present time? If you're thinking in present terms and not thinking on a bigger scale into the future, then I'll fully understand as to why you're trying to mock the fact that Americans are leaving the U.S. because of this financial crises.

"Taxing them horrifically" is a bit of an exaggeration, don't you think? Sure, $550 million sounds like a lot, but as I demonstrated with numbers instead of emotional fear-mongering, it works out to less than $2.75 per cell phone subscriber per year. That's less than $0.27 per month -- not really much of a tax at all. Sure, cell phone providers may use the fee to raise rates a bit more, but the $20-$35 you pulled out of your ass was pure FUD.

Bailouts are NOT the way to go about it.

JC didn't say bailouts were the way to do it -- he said taxes were. And he's pretty clear about his position, so I'm not sure why there's confusion -- unless, of course, you're trying desperately to construct a straw-man argument.

[illriginal]

"Taxing them horrifically" is a bit of an exaggeration, don't you think? Sure, $550 million sounds like a lot, but as I demonstrated with numbers instead of emotional fear-mongering, it works out to less than $2.75 per cell phone subscriber per year. That's less than $0.27 per month -- not really much of a tax at all. Sure, cell phone providers may use the fee to raise rates a bit more, but the $20-$35 you pulled out of your ass was pure FUD.

No it's not an exaggeration. Mipadi, cell phone companies at this moment are being taxed 50 million dollars a year. In the near future, they will be forced to pay up an additional 500 million. Is this not a lot in your mind?

Your math is fallacious. There's profits that need to be made, which cannot be a made up number by us, since non of us are the CEOs of any cell phone provider. There's also different packages for different carriers, there's also different rates for different packages for different carriers, your mathematical equation is too basic for you to try and assure me that it'll be less than $0.27 per month.

unless, of course, you're trying desperately to construct a straw-man argument.

I'm not tryin to. You're trying to debate with me about the amount of what each customer will be paying in the future, which non of us can assume nor try to calculate because there's too many different variables. The argument in regards to how much we'll be paying; from the both of us are baseless, simple as that. So to be quite honest, like I said before I'm sorry that I threw a number out there because there's nothing to back it up and there's simply no point in arguing about it because it isn't concrete.

I made up a range of numbers and you're using some simple equation to try and prove your point, which is useless. Unless of course you're a CEO of a cell phone provider, then please do tell us each and every single variable and what sort of real numbers are we looking at.

And just a side note, when I said we're going to be taxed horrifically thus being the reason why American citizens would leave the U.S., I'm not just talking about some silly cell phone bill. I'm talking about all the taxes across the board that we will be paying for EACH and EVERY single BAILOUT.

[mipadi]

Your math is fallacious. There's profits that need to be made, which cannot be a made up number by us, since non of us are the CEOs of any cell phone provider. There's also different packages for different carriers, there's also different rates for different packages for different carriers, your mathematical equation is too basic for you to try and assure me that it'll be less than $0.27 per month.

At least I used "real" math, instead of just making shit up. You've never even specified where your $20-$35 per month figure came from, yet you're trying to tell me that my math is wrong? Please.

I already noted that carriers may charge different amounts, but that still doesn't explain your figures, whereas mine are at least rooted in mathematics. You don't like the $0.27 a month figure? Fine. Assume that the cell phone companies are going to charge ten times that amount -- that's still only $2.70. To even have a hope of reaching your figures, they'd have to increase their rates by over one hundred times their new costs.