israel/palestine questions Rating Options

[brooklyneast05]

i'm going to put this in debate, just because i figure there is the possibility of one breaking out. i'm not posing a debate though, just wondering if anyone here can shed some light that i can comprehend.

basically, i don't really get the deal with Palestine and Israel. i've never been in a history class that really addressed it so i've always been confused about all of it. it's frustrating to me to see stuff all over the news and feel like i don't have an opinion one way or the other becuase i don't get what is going on. i've been reading about it, but it's still confusing as hell.

i keep reading stuff that basically just says how they Palestinians got kicked out of their home, and they are pissed and want their land back. well...that doesn't seem that irrational to me. i would too, of course not enough that i'm ok with my kids and future generations dying over it but you know. so i guess lots of the stuff i read, i sorta agree with the Palestinians. then when i say that, people are like "NO, THEY ARE WRONG, ISRAEL IS OUR ALLY, NOT THEM. YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT"

so i guess i wanna know what i'm talking about. why do we favor Israel in this mess? am i just completely missing something in not understanding why Isreal is right and the Palestinians are wrong?

[Reidar]

It would take a certain degree of moral ineptitude to suggest that the slaughter in Manhattan would have been spared if only the United States had severed its ties with Israel. The cadres of jihad make it obvious that their quarrel is with secularism in principality, not just with Zionism. If you've studied the Qur'an and the Hadith in their native tongues, as I have, you would know that the incentive for opposition to anything above religious fascism is intolerable to Allah. Ayaan Hirsi Ali can tell you all about it. Or did the AIS kill civilians in Algeria because they had a disagreement with their government's international relationships, too?

As for the assault on Gaza, it could not have come at a more unfortunate time, so coincidentally before the impending February Israeli election and the month where new elections for the Palestinian Authority have to be called by President Abbas.

[NoSex]

It would take a certain degree of moral ineptitude to suggest that the slaughter in Manhattan would have been spared if only the United States had severed its ties with Israel.

<--- amoralist.

The cadres of jihad make it obvious that their quarrel is with secularism in principality, not just with Zionism.

like everyone in the entire world has a problem with secularism... but if the secularists were giving them bombs to fight jews, honestly, i think they could turn the other cheek cause... it's not like a vast majority of the jihad fanaticism isn't political. the people pulling the strings are far more concerned about politics than they are any number of virgins in the sky.

[Reidar]

<--- amoralist.

Morality is an innate trait, the conscious form of altruism seen at the level of genes, evolved as a way to facilitate cooperation among groups. It is inescapable in its inherent application. By stating moral impartiality, you are making a moral decision.

like everyone in the entire world has a problem with secularism... but if the secularists were giving them bombs to fight jews, honestly, i think they could turn the other cheek cause... it's not like a vast majority of the jihad fanaticism isn't political. the people pulling the strings are far more concerned about politics than they are any number of virgins in the sky.

This is tautological because their politics are not apportioned from their faith. There would be no other incentive to drive their politics if it weren't for the trespassing of holy lands and ideologies. The American Empire, as it assuredly is, cannot coexist peacefully with the aspirations of Islamic imperialism.

And if that was all it took to quell their anxieties so they could "turn the other cheek" - an even footing against their religious (which leads to the geopolitical elements, for these territorial disputes are defined first and foremost by ideological incompatibility) nemesis, granted by said adversary's willing ally in order to even the playing field - then jihad would be much more isolated, focused, and direct than it is and has been. What did the slain Buddhist monks of southern Thailand do to invoke the wrath of insurgents? Were they, too, in cohorts with the Jews?

[NoSex]

Morality is an innate trait, the conscious form of altruism seen at the level of genes, evolved as a way to facilitate cooperation among groups. It is inescapable in its inherent application. By stating moral impartiality, you are making a moral decision.

oh please. if our "moral character" is purely genetic (which is an argument i sympathize & agree with almost entirely), than our so-called "moral character" would fail to resemble anything, philosophically, moral. morality, if not a choice, if not characterized by normative language, if not metaphysical, fails to be anything substantial or universally binding. you said i would demonstrate a "moral ineptitude," such a deficiency could only exist if morality was an objective quality independent of our own personal wills & sentiment.

in short, you first comment denied relativism while your "rebuttal" affirmed it.

This is tautological because their politics are not apportioned from their faith. There would be no other incentive to drive their politics if it weren't for the trespassing of holy lands and ideologies.

uhmm. no? imperialism has many benefits and many incentives. although the warriors of the crusades were told they were fighting for their lord god... that doesn't necessitate that their lords designed them to fight for that sole reason alone, or for that reason at all. might as well say that since the soldiers in iraq were told & motivated to fight by fears of terrorism, than that there exists no other plausible explanation for the primary cause of the fighting - an order from up high.

you are oversimplifying the situation like a two year old. if we can agree that religion is socially constructed, by denying middle eastern religion its socio-political roots, and by isolating all motivation to purely spiritual explanations, you're completely missing the foundation of the islamic mentality. notice that islam, in america, and in many other places all over the world, is completely & perfectly peaceful in practice. since religion is pliable to society & especially for those that wield it for political ends, we must interpret religious behavior on a larger socio-political scale. you're making sweeping generalizations and for it, completely missing the point.

And if that was all it took to quell their anxieties so they could "turn the other cheek" - an even footing against their religious (which leads to the geopolitical elements, for these territorial disputes are defined first and foremost by ideological incompatibility) nemesis, granted by said adversary's willing ally in order to even the playing field - then jihad would be much more isolated, focused, and direct than it is and has been. What did the slain Buddhist monks of southern Thailand do to invoke the wrath of insurgents? Were they, too, in cohorts with the Jews?

consider the CIA's involvement with al qaeda and operation cyclone in afghanistan during the soviet war. the islamic extremists didn't seem to have an issue with U.S. aid then...? maybe you're just not looking at the whole picture kid.

sure, there are fanatical extremists, that devote themselves entirely, but, still, most of these persons are informed by leaders who, often & arguably, have larger political aspirations. further, there are, many more islamics who are perfectly peaceful. this is, arguably, still a result of their enviroment. just as christians several a century and a half past could read the same exact passages & figure the bible supports the enslavement of black people.

RELIGION IS SOCIALLY CONTROLLED. SO, INVESTIGATE THE SOCIETY, NOT THE TEXT, BECAUSE THE SOCIETY SUPERSEDES THE TEXT, ALWAYS, & BEYOND APPEARANCES.