Machiavellianism & Politics Options

[batman]

We just finished up reading The Prince and The Discourses by Machiavelli and I thought some of the ideas he brings up are very interesting and controversial. I almost wish we could spend more than just a week discussing Machiavelli, because there's just so much to talk about.

The basic Machiavellian idea is that in order to be a successful ruler, you must be able and willing to do evil/wrong/bad/malicious things to promote the stability of the state. Up until Machiavelli, we've heard time after time about the just ruler, the philosopher king, importance of values, etc.

In The Discourses, everything and anything is justifiable as long as it is in the interest of the state, including murder, manipulation, breaking promises/vows, anything that goes against the values instilled in regular humans.

There's really no moral or immoral, just... what is best for the state?

What are your thoughts about this? Do you see Obama as a Machiavellian ruler?

[fameONE]

Ooo, maybe.

There isn't a doubt in my mind that Barack Obama, or anyone, is capable of committing the most vile deeds a human being can commit. When put in that situation, you can kill when necessary. If another conflict was brought to our door, as in; a direct attack on a US base or political epicenter, I would expect nothing less than our commander in chief to mercilessly order the slaughter of those guilty of the act. I would also expect nothing less than widespread support from the American people, if that were the case. In a nutshell, as long as he's looking out for his own people; he should keep it 'gangsta' whenever the situation calls for it.

[sixfive]

I would also expect nothing less than widespread support from the American people

Hey, I say go for it.