CA's Prop 8, FL's amendment 2 and Arizona's prop 102/ Defining marriage, Surprised this never got mentioned here. Rating Options

[Blaqheartedstar]

Surprised this never got mentioned here. CA's Prop 8, FL's amendment 2 and Arizona's prop 102, and the whole defining gay marriage. With election coming up pretty soon, Prop 8 has been a big issue.

The argument is that Prop 8, amendment 2 and prop 102 will define that marriage between a man and a woman will be the only legal kind of marriage in California for prop 8, Florida for amendment 2, and Arizona with prop 102.

Some people argue that it has nothing to do with gay rights, or about gays in general
yet mention that if it doesn't pass parental rights, and religious freedom gets taken away.

Others mention that it does (take away gay rights), If the law passes Same sex couples will not be able to
1. Marry the person they love.
2. Those who are already married will lose the rights that come with it.


There is also the argument that Marriage is about love regardless of gender (Love is Blind).
yet others strongly believe that marriage is a religious, spiritual union between a man and a women.

To start a discussion here are several questions
1. what do you feel will happen if these laws passes and soon spreads to other states?
2. What do you feel marriage is, and should the idea of same sex marriage be allowed?
3. What do you think will happen to the children whose parents happen to be both male or female, If these laws passes what do you think will happen to the children?

[*paperplane*]

Not at all, and this is why I avoid debates about evolution/creationism/whatever, because it all sounds like shit to me. But I don't think it makes a whole lot of sense to teach something in science class that has no scientific basis.

I don't think it's an aspect you can take out of school, though. Kids are going to wonder how we came to be, and there needs to be at least a tentative answer. If you want creationism included in that answer, send your kids to Sunday school.

[dosomethin888]

Not at all, and this is why I avoid debates about evolution/creationism/whatever, because it all sounds like shit to me. But I don't think it makes a whole lot of sense to teach something in science class that has no scientific basis.

I don't think it's an aspect you can take out of school, though. Kids are going to wonder how we came to be, and there needs to be at least a tentative answer. If you want creationism included in that answer, send your kids to Sunday school.

Well, I just disagree with the fact that there is, in fact, two sides to the argument. Creationism and Evolution. Sure, there is no "scientific basis" for creationism because it is not a scientific theory. Evolution is, therefore it is going to have plenty of "scientific basis." But it also has many, many holes in it and connections that cant seem to be made.
There are archeological findings that prove that the Bible is accurate on more than one account. And since the Bible is the basis of the Creationism theory, I think that is considered to be evidence enough.

But, I dont like how only evolution is taught when there is clearly an alternative... Its biased. Its not giving the children in the schools a chance to make a decision for themselves. Just imagine if only creationism was taught... how unfair would that be?

Yes. Yes, it is.

Enlighten me, please.

Except that's what she said: they would do that, in order to illustrate how it doesn't make sense to chalk up secular issues like this as "brainwashing" when young children are systematically indoctrinated to believe in something they don't even understand under religious exaction. "Would" is conditional.

We're over the brainwashing thing. I said I was wrong. *sniff*

[only-tuesdays]

Well, I just disagree with the fact that there is, in fact, two sides to the argument. Creationism and Evolution. Sure, there is no "scientific basis" for creationism because it is not a scientific theory. Evolution is, therefore it is going to have plenty of "scientific basis." But it also has many, many holes in it and connections that cant seem to be made.
There are archeological findings that prove that the Bible is accurate on more than one account. And since the Bible is the basis of the Creationism theory, I think that is considered to be evidence enough.

Humor me. Give evidence for your claims. You keep saying there are holes in the evolutionary theory, but you haven't given any of them. You haven't given any facts to support anything you've said. This is supposed to be a debate, not a place for you to get on your soapbox and spout your beliefs with nothing backing them.

a.... but it might happen again. People are bold. You think something like this will only happen once? Maybe not the exact thing, but people are still going to try to push their lifestyle on others. On children.

But it's OK for you to push your lifestyle on everyone else including children?

[dosomethin888]

Humor me. Give evidence for your claims. You keep saying there are holes in the evolutionary theory, but you haven't given any of them. You haven't given any facts to support anything you've said. This is supposed to be a debate, not a place for you to get on your soapbox and spout your beliefs with nothing backing them.

Okay....hold on.

But it's OK for you to push your lifestyle on everyone else including children?

Im not pushing my beliefs on anyone. This is a debate forum, jackass.

And if they are my children, I can teach them what I believe in and what I think would be best for them to believe in. You, as well with your children.

amen to that

^ditto.





Oh, no I double posted. Woops.

[only-tuesdays]

Im not pushing my beliefs on anyone. This is a debate forum, jackass.

And if they are my children, I can teach them what I believe in and what I think would be best for them to believe in. You, as well with your children.

I was simply making a point. You think it's so horrible for society to teach about other ways of life, including what you consider to be "wrong" yet at the same time, want evolution to be taught along side creationism. That is pushing your lifestyle on other people. If we were to treat all theories equally we should teach every culture's theory on where human life came from. Regardless of if there is any factual basis.

[dosomethin888]

I was simply making a point. You think it's so horrible for society to teach about other ways of life, including what you consider to be "wrong" yet at the same time, want evolution to be taught along side creationism. That is pushing your lifestyle on other people. If we were to treat all theories equally we should teach every culture's theory on where human life came from. Regardless of if there is any factual basis.

I agree. Teach every theory or none at all. I dont think that is pushing my views.. I think that is equal.
I take it you believe in evolution(correct me if im wrong), so if only creationism was taught in public schools, would you be "pushing your views" on others by insisting that Evolution be taught alongside it?


Well, I found an interesting web page that documents some archeological findings that prove the Bible is historically accurate: Sodom and Gomorrah, Jericho..

http://www.defendingyourfaith.org/Archaeology.htm

This is an interview with a creationist archeologist which I found interesting:

http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v...chaeologist.asp

No, my question about whether the archaeological findings were historical was serious. I'm not sure what findings you were referring to, but if all they did was confirm that events things recorded in the bible aligned with history, it's irrelevant to whether creationism is true. (It's getting late, so I apologize if my rhetoric is confusing.)

And so what if it's a religious text? That would (generally) disqualify it to be taught in public schools.

Ya, it is getting late..
The findings prove that the Bible is true. If the Bible is true, then creationism must be true cause it comes straight from the Bible.

I'd go so far as to say that I can address any hole you perceive evolution to possess.

You seem very intelligent. But, Im wondering... have you studied the creationism theory as thoroughly as the evolution theory?