No Child Left Behind, setting a standard. Options

[Melissa]

(it was a thing for my university writing class that got me kind of interested in this and what other people think about it)

For those who don't know, the No Child Left Behind act was introduced by our very dear president George W. Bush as a way to end the "soft bigotry of low expectation" mainly in reference to minority groups and students who come from "dysfunctional and impoverished environments." It sets a standard for each grade for what should have been learned in reading, math, and science and progress is measured by what everyone in public school should have taken at some point in time - standardized tests.

One problem with this is that people are arguing that schools aren't really teaching for the sake of learning anymore - they're teaching students to simply pass a test.

Dolores Umbridge ( ): “It is the view of the Ministry that a theoretical knowledge will be sufficient to get you through your examinations, which after all, is what school is all about.”

John Newman also talked about students becoming "test-taking machines" and that everything they learn to take these tests are forgotten immediately after.

That aside, there are a lot of schools that don't meet the standard and are in danger of losing their funding. People are also arguing that this system is only perpetuating what it's trying to stop. Studies show that Hispanics and Blacks typically do worse in the standardized tests and because of this, their schools lose funding.

Obviously, there are some serious flaws in the NCLB act - but at the same time, there should be a standard, right? We can't just let anyone graduate to the next grade.

Okay, so I'm pretty much cheating a little bit since I'm supposed to lead a 30-min discussion in class about this next Monday with my group. I'm pretty much using this debate forum to get ideas about what other people's viewpoints are on this. If it's not really a debate, you can move this to the lounge.

What I'm basically asking is for people to discuss these following ideas:
Does the NCLB act work? Do we need it? If not, what is a better system to follow?

Also, a lot of people seem to think that a child's future is mainly dependent on their parents. If his or her parents don't have anything higher than a HS degree, chances are they he or she wont, even with a NCLB act in place. I highly disagree with this statement, but the other members in my group agree with it completely, so different viewpoints on this would also be great.

Go!

[rawtheekuh]

i think we need to expand the scope of education in this country. we should encourage kids to specialize in a particular field in the last two years of their high school years so they can prepare for the real world. if a kid wants to go to college/university, we should prepare them for their specific major but also combine those specialized courses with a more liberal education.

but we should also offer options to kids who aren't into academia. we still need skilled carpenters, construction workers, mechanics, business people, etc. and i think a more vocational track would be appropriate for them.

NCLB isn't going to increase the quality of our schools AT ALL, but i think it is our obligation to tackle the racist/classist element that is so prevalent in our school system. also, we need to quit building these mammoth schools and focus on creating smaller class sizes & smaller schools in general, because personal attention will create a better learning environment.

we also need to create a learning culture that emphasizes critical thinking and discussion of ideas & not just passive rote memorization of facts.

the most important thing, however, is bringing respect to the teaching profession. we need to train our teachers better by making them go through long-term internships and giving teachers more money for what they do. also, we need to give teaching jobs to the best of the best.

one law is not going to reform an entire education system. there should be a multi-tiered, long-term solution.

[Comptine]

i think we need to expand the scope of education in this country. we should encourage kids to specialize in a particular field in the last two years of their high school years so they can prepare for the real world. if a kid wants to go to college/university, we should prepare them for their specific major but also combine those specialized courses with a more liberal education.

but we should also offer options to kids who aren't into academia. we still need skilled carpenters, construction workers, mechanics, business people, etc. and i think a more vocational track would be appropriate for them.

We use to focus very heavily on this type of education and still have vocation schools. However, having students specializing in high school proved to be very ineffective and pretty much useless. Many people change their majors and subjects in college. It's not productive to set a student on one track. Our system now in high school have electives and APs so the student can choose himself how much he wants to focus a particular field.

Vocation schools do exist but in today's world, a higher education degree would make the difference between staying in the same position from beginning to end and getting promoted. Once again, instead of setting the students on one track, the education system should provide choices.

I work in underfunded schools and you really see the detrimental/stupid effects of the NCLB act.

The first school I went to lost a bunch of grants because the student did below the expectation on a few exams. So what does the state do? They cut funding for extracurricular activities and other stuff. Sports/art got cut in funding. The funniest thing? They did really bad in literacy. Guess what gets cut? The library funding and other literacy budgets. The school has to worry about funding and pushing the students to meet standards that the conceptual and deeper understanding of subjects. The students definitely get the short end of the stick.

As for if there should be a standard, it's tricky. Most people who has been through high school and college, they are taught to compare themselves to averages. And there are grades for PASS and FAIL and other such things. However, from my students, I find that in one area they might meet the standard but in others, they fall short. For a lot of schools, promotion to the next grade depends solely on what the teachers believe should happen.

Another thing i like to mentioned is that colleges are now looking more into student's standard test. it says that it reveals a true reflection and knowledge better than SAT/ACT.

The SAT/ACT are standardized tests. And colleges are starting to stress the scores less, even though they do matter. It's a test that establishes a basis for what you should have know already. But then again, it's very much an endurance test also.

[demolished]

We use to focus very heavily on this type of education and still have vocation schools. However, having students specializing in high school proved to be very ineffective and pretty much useless. Many people change their majors and subjects in college. It's not productive to set a student on one track. Our system now in high school have electives and APs so the student can choose himself how much he wants to focus a particular field.

Vocation schools do exist but in today's world, a higher education degree would make the difference between staying in the same position from beginning to end and getting promoted. Once again, instead of setting the students on one track, the education system should provide choices.

I work in underfunded schools and you really see the detrimental/stupid effects of the NCLB act.

The first school I went to lost a bunch of grants because the student did below the expectation on a few exams. So what does the state do? They cut funding for extracurricular activities and other stuff. Sports/art got cut in funding. The funniest thing? They did really bad in literacy. Guess what gets cut? The library funding and other literacy budgets. The school has to worry about funding and pushing the students to meet standards that the conceptual and deeper understanding of subjects. The students definitely get the short end of the stick.

As for if there should be a standard, it's tricky. Most people who has been through high school and college, they are taught to compare themselves to averages. And there are grades for PASS and FAIL and other such things. However, from my students, I find that in one area they might meet the standard but in others, they fall short. For a lot of schools, promotion to the next grade depends solely on what the teachers believe should happen.



The SAT/ACT are standardized tests. And colleges are starting to stress the scores less, even though they do matter. It's a test that establishes a basis for what you should have know already. But then again, it's very much an endurance test also.

I'm sorry, i forgot to mentioned it. it's CST. (california state testing)