Those who would give up ESSENTIAL liberty to purchase a little TEMPORARY safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety Options

[Comptine]

The topic title is a quote that is often misquoted as Benjamin Franklin's. However, no matter who said it, let's anaylze the quote and use it for modern day purposes, just for the hell of it.

In my mind, I think suspending essential liberties just for security damages the ideals our country was built upon, the ideals that democracy were built upon. The Patriotic Act comes strongly to mind because, while it targets only a certain group of Americans, it seems that our liberties are not guaranteeed even though America and the UN say they are. Though suspending the liberties of certain people or only suspending a certain liberty (right to privacy) seem small compare to a nation's welfare, it seems that what the Bill of Rights and the Constitution dictates isn't meant to be constant.

Do you think temporary security, or any security if you want, is worth the suspension of essential liberties (in my mind civil and constitutional rights = essential liberties)?

[*Uronacid*]

I don't think you realize that patriot act isn't as bad as it seems. I did a paper about this in college. People are just flipping out because the government could take advantage of the rights given to it via the patriot act.

The patriot act has helped us catch many internet criminals, terrorists, and child pornographers. They haven't really taken this act to an extreme. Also, in 2006 the patriot act was changed slightly to give our gov't less of a chance to take advantage of the act.

The patriot act doesn't limit your rights. It merely gives our gov't an edge at fighting crime, and doing what it's supposed to do. Sure, the gov't could view your library records. Sure, the gov't could conduct secret searches on you, but really... do you have any idea what kind of procedures they have to go through before they are able to do so. They aren't going to waste their time poking around in peoples personal lives when they are trying to find terrorists and pedophiles.

If you're a terrorist or a pedophile, I hope you burn at the stake. I don't care what rights you have are violated. Hell, I could care less if you were hit by a car and paralyzed from the neck down for the rest of your life. If you're the type of person that's out to kill innocent civilians or rape children, you deserve it. I'm obviously not implying that you are one of those people, but seriously, our gov't isn't going to waste their time on you.

I highly doubt your neighbor is going to call the Feds on you for terrorist or internet crimes. Even if he/she does, you wouldn't even know that they were conducting an investigation. Why do you even care. Hell, they probably wouldn't even go so far as to use the patriot act on you anyways. The ACLU and all their f**king law suits have made the Patriot act such a pain in the ass to use, that they would probably just legally watch you with the laws that they already have.

Personally, it doesn't f**king matter. The Patriot Act has a sunset clause, and if we don't need it anymore they'll just drop the law. So far the act has been very successful in catching real criminals. It probably won't be dropped for a while, but I'm happy that it's saving hundreds and possibly thousands of lives.

[Uronacid]

I don't think you realize that patriot act isn't as bad as it seems. I did a paper about this in college. People are just flipping out because the government could take advantage of the rights given to it via the patriot act. Has the gov't taken advantage of the act, no.

The patriot act has helped us catch many internet criminals, terrorists, and child pornographers. They haven't really taken this act to an extreme. Also, in 2006 the patriot act was changed slightly to give our gov't less of a chance to take advantage of the act.

The patriot act doesn't limit your rights. It merely gives our gov't an edge at fighting crime, and doing what it's supposed to do. Sure, the gov't could view your library records. Sure, the gov't could conduct secret searches on you, but really... do you have any idea what kind of procedures they have to go through before they are able to do so. They aren't going to waste their time poking around in peoples personal lives when they are trying to find terrorists and pedophiles.

If you're a terrorist or a pedophile, I hope you burn at the stake. I don't care what rights you have are violated. Hell, I could care less if you were hit by a car and paralyzed from the neck down for the rest of your life. If you're the type of person that's out to kill innocent civilians or rape children, you deserve it. I'm obviously not implying that you are one of those people, but seriously, our gov't isn't going to waste their time on you.

I highly doubt your neighbor is going to call the Feds on you for terrorist or internet crimes. Even if he/she does, you wouldn't even know that they were conducting an investigation. Why do you even care. Hell, they probably wouldn't even go so far as to use the patriot act on you anyways. The ACLU and all their f**king law suits have made the Patriot act such a pain in the ass to use, that they would probably just legally watch you with the laws that they already have.

Personally, it doesn't f**king matter. The Patriot Act has a sunset clause, and if we don't need it anymore they'll just drop the law. So far the act has been very successful in catching real criminals. It probably won't be dropped for a while, but I'm happy that it's saving hundreds and possibly thousands of lives.

That's my point of view.