Eye Liner Advice/Help, For those blessed with eye liner skills... Options

[totallynora]

So here's the deal.

It may sound totally dumb, but I'm looking for advice/videos/tips and anything relating to applying eye liner. I really honestly do not know what my issues are, but it's really hard for me to do anything with it that looks remotely decent.

Has anyone else suffered with the whole "not-making-yourself-look-goth-but-at-the-same-time-actually-applying-a-suitable-about-of-black-around-the-eye" phenomenon? God, I have.

So, yeah. I checked on YouTube for anything helpful, but wasn't really too successful.

[*MyMichelle*]

Use a crayon eyeliner that you can sharpen to a point, and use dark brown. If you use dark brown, the fading / smearing of the eyeliner will blend with your skin more easily, so it won't give you a "goth" effect. Draw it closely and carefully to your eyelashes. For your top lid, hold your eye on the outside with one hand and pull out, like your making fun of Asians (haha). It glides on more easily.

If you have white peoples' eyes, just wear black mascara on both top and lower eyelashes. That should substitute eyeliner for daily use just fine.