the bible...fairytales? Options

[cori-catastrophe]

earlier today, i was debating with another cber about the bible. she seemed to believe that jesus walked the earth, but she doesn't believe in god, nor any of the historical stories in the bible, such as the flood that god sent to rid the world of all evil.
i believe in god, as well as the stories in the bible.
i just think that over the many years people have made the stories into fairytales. perhaps they overdid it on the describing details by using dramatic hyperboles. people are the ones that leave us wondering about our faith, not god.
i believe that they all happened the original way that god planned them, but there isn't very much proof anymore because of people. although, god could also be testing our faithfulnes toward him being in control. what do you think?

[callous]

Religion is my most favorite subject to discuss.

Heres what I say.Its ridiculous to believe everything in the bible REALLY happened.Take for instance, noahs ark.Its been scientifically proven that there was no such thing as a global flood.It is, however, possible to be a local flood which couldve been mistaken for a global flood.

Every story in the bible has a realistic problem.The resolutions teach us important life lessons.The characters, setting, stories are fiction.Just like any other bedtime story.

The definition of a fairytale is "a folk story about real-life problems, usually with imaginary characters and magical events".That pretty much sums up the bible for me.

[cori-catastrophe]

Religion is my most favorite subject to discuss.

Heres what I say.Its ridiculous to believe everything in the bible REALLY happened.Take for instance, noahs ark.Its been scientifically proven that there was no such thing as a global flood.It is, however, possible to be a local flood which couldve been mistaken for a global flood.

Every story in the bible has a realistic problem.The resolutions teach us important life lessons.The characters, setting, stories are fiction.Just like any other bedtime story.

The definition of a fairytale is "a folk story about real-life problems, usually with imaginary characters and magical events".That pretty much sums up the bible for me.

well, obviously some of them are pretty ridiculous to believe. but they do teach lessons on faith. so they do have a meaning.

[kimmytree]

well, obviously some of them are pretty ridiculous to believe. but they do teach lessons on faith. so they do have a meaning.

So some of them are fairytales, then?
That's basically what you just said.

[cori-catastrophe]

So some of them are fairytales, then?
That's basically what you just said.

some of them make not have been written to be literal is what i'm saying.
if someone believs that everything in the bible is to be taken literal and not over-exagerating, they're crazy. some of them are symbolic.
for example.
in revelations,

1:20 the mystery of the seven stars which you saw in my right hand, and the seven golden lampstands. The seven stars are the angels of the seven assemblies. The seven lampstands are seven assemblies.

this isn't to be taken literal. do you actually think that god was holding seven stars? he wasn't.
no one knows fully what it means, but i'm pretty sure it represnts the seven continents.

[kimmytree]

some of them make not have been written to be literal is what i'm saying.
if someone believs that everything in the bible is to be taken literal and not over-exagerating, they're crazy. some of them are symbolic.
for example.
in revelations,

this isn't to be taken literal. do you actually think that god was holding seven stars? he wasn't.
no one knows fully what it means, but i'm pretty sure it represnts the seven continents.

Okay, I see what you're saying.

So we can come to the agreement that at least some of the stories in the bible arent to be taken literally. But then who's to say what stories can and cannot be taken literally? If one story is flawed, then that makes the whole book questionable.

Maybe God was over-exaggerating when he said that those who are blasphemous are damned, and that those who dont choose to believe in him are damned too? Hey, it's possible. Personally, I dont believe that anything in the Bible is the word of God, so it doesnt matter to me either way.

I really hope you dont think I'm trying to attack you or anything, because I'm honestly not trying to.

[cori-catastrophe]

Okay, I see what you're saying.

So we can come to the agreement that at least some of the stories in the bible arent to be taken literally. But then who's to say what stories can and cannot be taken literally? If one story is flawed, then that makes the whole book questionable.

Maybe God was over-exaggerating when he said that those who are blasphemous are damned, and that those who dont choose to believe in him are damned too? Hey, it's possible. Personally, I dont believe that anything in the Bible is the word of God, so it doesnt matter to me either way.

I really hope you dont think I'm trying to attack you or anything, because I'm honestly not trying to.

no, no offence taken.
yes, we agree on that. and i see your resoning. but it plainly states that if you have one or more god before you that you are destined for hell. it's the only unforgivable sin.

Verse 11
And the Israelitish woman's son blasphemed the name of the LORD, and cursed. And they brought him unto Moses: (and his mother's name was Shelomith, the daughter of Dibri, of the tribe of Dan:)
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blasphemed
15,16; Exodus 20:7; 2 Samuel 12:14; 1 Kings 21:10,13; 2 Kings 18:30,35,37; 2 Kings 19:1-3,6,10,22; 2 Chronicles 32:14-17; Psalms 74:18,22; Matthew 26:65; Acts 6:11-13; Romans 2:24; 1 Timothy 1:13; Revelation 16:11,21
the name
Houbigant and others think that the name which this man blasphemed was the name of the god of his native land. But that hashshem THE NAME, denotes Jehovah, appears from its being used in the latter part of verse 16, as equivalent to "the name of Jehovah," in the former part. The Jews also frequently use hashshem for Jehovah.
cursed
Job 1:5,11,22; 2:5,9,10; Isaiah 8:21
brought him
Exodus 18:22,26; Numbers 15:33-35

Home > Commentaries > Treasury of Scripture Knowledge >
Leviticus > Chapter 24

The Treasury of Scripture Knowledge
Chapter Overview
1 The oil for the lamps.
5 The shew-bread.
10 Shelomith's son blasphemeth.
13 The law of blasphemy.
17 Of murder.
18 Of damage.
23 The blasphemer is stoned.


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Chapter 24

Verse 2
Command the children of Israel, that they bring unto thee pure oil olive beaten for the light, to cause the lamps to burn continually.


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that they
Exodus 27:20,21; 39:37; 40:24; Numbers 8:2-4; 1 Samuel 3:3,4
the lamps
2 Chronicles 13:11; Psalms 119:105,130; Proverbs 6:23; Isaiah 8:20; 11:2; Matthew 4:16; 5:16; Matthew 25:1-8; Luke 1:79; 12:35; John 1:4,9; 5:35; 8:12; Acts 26:18; 2 Corinthians 4:6; Ephesians 1:17,18; 5:8-14; Philippians 2:15,16
burn continually
Heb. ascend.

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Verse 4
He shall order the lamps upon the pure candlestick before the LORD continually.
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the pure
Exodus 25:31-39; 31:8; 37:17-24; 39:37; Numbers 3:31; 4:9; 1 Kings 7:49; 1 Chronicles 28:15; Jeremiah 52:19; Zechariah 4:2,3,11-14; Hebrews 9:2; Revelation 1:20; 2:1,5; Revelation 11:4

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Verse 5
And thou shalt take fine flour, and bake twelve cakes thereof: two tenth deals shall be in one cake.
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Exodus 25:30; 40:23; 1 Kings 18:31; 1 Samuel 21:4,5; Matthew 12:4; Acts 26:7; James 1:1

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Verse 6
And thou shalt set them in two rows, six on a row, upon the pure table before the LORD.
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in two rows
1 Corinthians 14:40
pure
Exodus 25:23,24; 37:10-16; 39:36; 40:22,23; 1 Kings 7:48; 2 Chronicles 4:19; 13:11; Hebrews 9:2

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Verse 7
And thou shalt put pure frankincense upon each row, that it may be on the bread for a memorial, even an offering made by fire unto the LORD.
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pure
2:2; Ephesians 1:6; Hebrews 7:25; Revelation 8:3,4
the bread
John 6:35,51
a memorial
Genesis 9:16; Exodus 12:14; 13:9; 17:14; Acts 10:4,31; 1 Corinthians 11:23-25

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Verse 8
Every sabbath he shall set it in order before the LORD continually, being taken from the children of Israel by an everlasting covenant.
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Numbers 4:7; 1 Chronicles 9:32; 23:29; 2 Chronicles 2:4; Nehemiah 10:33; Matthew 12:3-5

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Verse 9
And it shall be Aaron's and his sons'; and they shall eat it in the holy place: for it is most holy unto him of the offerings of the LORD made by fire by a perpetual statute.
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Aaron's
8:31; 1 Samuel 21:6; Malachi 1:12; Matthew 12:4; Mark 2:26; Luke 6:4
they shall
6:16; 8:3,31; 10:17; 21:22; Exodus 29:32,33

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Verse 10
And the son of an Israelitish woman, whose father was an Egyptian, went out among the children of Israel: and this son of the Israelitish woman and a man of Israel strove together in the camp;
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Exodus 12:38; Numbers 11:4

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Verse 11
And the Israelitish woman's son blasphemed the name of the LORD, and cursed. And they brought him unto Moses: (and his mother's name was Shelomith, the daughter of Dibri, of the tribe of Dan:)
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blasphemed
15,16; Exodus 20:7; 2 Samuel 12:14; 1 Kings 21:10,13; 2 Kings 18:30,35,37; 2 Kings 19:1-3,6,10,22; 2 Chronicles 32:14-17; Psalms 74:18,22; Matthew 26:65; Acts 6:11-13; Romans 2:24; 1 Timothy 1:13; Revelation 16:11,21
the name
Houbigant and others think that the name which this man blasphemed was the name of the god of his native land. But that hashshem THE NAME, denotes Jehovah, appears from its being used in the latter part of verse 16, as equivalent to "the name of Jehovah," in the former part. The Jews also frequently use hashshem for Jehovah.
cursed
Job 1:5,11,22; 2:5,9,10; Isaiah 8:21
brought him
Exodus 18:22,26; Numbers 15:33-35

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Verse 12
And they put him in ward, that the mind of the LORD might be shewed them.
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that the mind of the Lord might be shewed them
Heb. to expound unto them according to the mouth of the Lord.
Exodus 18:15,16,23; Numbers 27:5; 36:5,6

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Verse 14
Bring forth him that hath cursed without the camp; and let all that heard him lay their hands upon his head, and let all the congregation stone him.
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without
13:46; Numbers 5:2-4; 15:35
all that
Deuteronomy 13:9; 17:7
let all the
20:2,27; Numbers 15:35,36; Deuteronomy 13:10; 21:21; 22:21; Joshua 7:25; John 8:59; John 10:31-33; Acts 7:58,59

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Verse 15
And thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel, saying, Whosoever curseth his God shall bear his sin.
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bear his sin
5:1; 20:16,17; Numbers 9:13

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Verse 16
And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the LORD, shall be put to death.
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blasphemeth
As the word nakav not only signifies to curse, or blaspheme, but also to express, or distinguish by name, (Nu 1:17. 1 Ch 12:31. Isa 62:2,) hence the Jews, at a very early period, understood this law as prohibiting them from uttering the name Jehovah, on any other than sacred occasions. The Septuagint, which was made at least 250 years before Christ, renders it [Onomazon de to onoma Kyriou, thanato thanatoustho] "Whosoever nameth the name of the Lord, let him die;" from which we see that the Jews at this time were accustomed to pronounce adonay, or Lord, instead of Jehovah; for in place of it the Septuagint always put [Lo Kyrios.]
Exodus 20:7; 1 Kings 21:10-13; Psalms 74:10,18; 139:20; Matthew 12:31; Mark 3:28,29; John 8:58,59; 10:33-36; Acts 26:11; 1 Timothy 1:13; James 2:7

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Matthew > Chapter 12


The Treasury of Scripture Knowledge
Chapter Overview
1 Christ reproves the blindness of the Pharisees concerning the breach of the sabbath,
3 by scripture,
9 by reason,
13 and by a miracle.
22 He heals a man possessed that was blind and dumb;
24 and confuting the absurd charge of casting out devils by Beelzebub, he shows that blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall never be forgiven.
36 Account shall be made of idle words.
38 He rebukes the unfaithful, who seek after a sign,
46 and shows who is his brother, sister, and mother.


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Chapter 12

Verse 1
At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat.


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went
Mark 2:23-28; Luke 6:1-5
to pluck
Deuteronomy 23:25

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Verse 2
But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.
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Behold
10; Exodus 20:9-11; 23:12; 31:15-17; 35:2; Numbers 15:32-36; Isaiah 58:13; Mark 3:2-5; Luke 6:6-11; 13:10-17; 23:56; John 5:9-11,16,17; 7:21-24; John 9:14-16

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Verse 3
But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him;
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Have
5; 19:4; 21:16; 22:31; Mark 12:10,26; Luke 6:3; 10:26
what
1 Samuel 21:3-6; Mark 2:25,26

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Verse 4
How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests?
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the shew-bread
Exodus 25:30; Leviticus 24:5-9
but
Exodus 29:32,33; Leviticus 8:31; 24:9

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Verse 5
Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
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on
Numbers 28:9,10; John 7:22,23
profane
Nehemiah 13:17; Ezekiel 24:21

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Verse 6
But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.
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41,42; 23:17-21; 2 Chronicles 6:18; Haggai 2:7-9; Malachi 3:1; John 2:19-21; Ephesians 2:20-22; Colossians 2:9; 1 Peter 2:4,5

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Verse 7
But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.
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if
9:13; 22:29; Acts 13:27
I will
That is, I desire, or require mercy, or acts of humanity, rather than sacrifice.
Isaiah 1:11-17; Hosea 6:6; Micah 6:6-8
condemned
Job 32:3; Psalms 94:21; 109:31; Proverbs 17:15; James 5:6

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Verse 8
For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
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9:6; Mark 2:28; 9:4-7; Luke 6:5; John 5:17-23; 1 Corinthians 9:21; 16:2; Revelation 1:10

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Verse 9
And when he was departed thence, he went into their synagogue:
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he went
Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:6-11

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Verse 10
And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him.
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which
1 Kings 13:4-6; Zechariah 11:17; John 5:3
Is it
19:3; 22:17,18; Luke 13:14; 14:3-6; 20:22; John 5:10; 9:16
that
Isaiah 32:6; 59:4,13; Luke 6:6,7; 11:54; 23:2,14; John 8:6

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Verse 11
And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?
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what
This was an argumentum ad hominem. The Jews held that such things were lawful on the sabbath day, and our Saviour very properly appealed to their canons in vindication of his intention to heal the distressed man.
Luke 13:15-17; 14:5
and if
Exodus 23:4,5; Deuteronomy 22:4

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Verse 12
How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.
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is a
6:26; Luke 12:24
it is
Mark 3:4; Luke 6:9

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Verse 13
Then saith he to the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it forth; and it was restored whole, like as the other.
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and it
Luke 13:13; Acts 3:7,8

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Verse 14
Then the Pharisees went out, and held a council against him, how they might destroy him.
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went
27:1; Mark 3:6; Luke 6:11; John 5:18; 10:39; 11:53,57
held a council
or, took counsel.

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Verse 15
But when Jesus knew it, he withdrew himself from thence: and great multitudes followed him, and he healed them all;
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he withdrew
10:23; Luke 6:12; John 7:1; 10:40-42; 11:54
great
4:24,25; 19:2; Mark 3:7-12; 6:56; Luke 6:17-19; John 9:4; Galatians 6:9; 1 Peter 2:21

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Verse 16
And charged them that they should not make him known:
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9:30; 17:9; Mark 7:36; Luke 5:14,15

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Verse 17
That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying,
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it
8:17; 13:35; 21:4; Isaiah 41:22,23; 42:9; 44:26; Luke 21:22; 24:44; John 10:35; 12:38; 19:28; Acts 13:27
saying
Isaiah 42:1-4

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Verse 18
Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.
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Behold
This prophecy is expressly referred to the Messiah by the Targumist, who renders, "Behold my servant the Messiah," etc., ha avdi mesheecha; and it was amply fulfilled in the gentle, lowly, condescending and beneficent nature of Christ's miracles and personal ministry, his perseverance in the midst of opposition, without engaging in contentious disputation, and his kind and tender dealing with weak and tempted believers.
my servant
Isaiah 49:5,6; 52:13; 53:11; Zechariah 3:8; Philippians 2:6,7
whom I
Psalms 89:19; Isaiah 49:1-3; Luke 23:35; 1 Peter 2:4
my beloved
3:17; 17:5; Mark 1:11; 9:7; Luke 9:35; Ephesians 1:6; Colossians 1:1,13; *marg:; 2 Peter 1:17
I will
3:16; Isaiah 11:2; 59:20,21; 61:1-3; Luke 3:22; 4:18; John 1:32-34; 3:34; Acts 10:38
and he
Isaiah 32:15,16; 49:6; 60:2,3; 62:2; Jeremiah 16:19; Luke 2:31,32; Acts 11:18; Acts 13:46-48; 14:27; 26:17,18; Romans 15:9-12; Ephesians 2:11-13; 3:5-8

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Verse 19
He shall not strive, nor cry; neither shall any man hear his voice in the streets.
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11:29; Zechariah 9:9; Luke 17:20; John 18:36-38; 2 Corinthians 10:1; 2 Timothy 2:24,25

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Verse 20
A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory.
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bruised
11:28; 2 Kings 18:21; Psalms 51:17; 147:3; Isaiah 40:11; 57:15; 61:1-3; Lamentations 3:31-34; Ezekiel 34:16; Luke 4:18; 2 Corinthians 2:7; Hebrews 12:12,13
till
Psalms 98:1-3; Isaiah 42:3,4; Romans 15:17-19; 2 Corinthians 2:14; 10:3-5; Revelation 6:2; Revelation 19:11-21

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Verse 21
And in his name shall the Gentiles trust.
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Isaiah 11:10; Romans 15:12,13; Ephesians 1:12,13; Colossians 1:27

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Verse 22
Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spake and saw.
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was
9:32; Mark 3:11; Luke 11:14
he healed
Mark 7:35-37; 9:17-26
blind
Psalms 51:15; Isaiah 29:18; 32:3,4; 35:5,6; Acts 26:18

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Verse 23
And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David?
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the people
9:33; 15:30,31
Is not
9:27; 15:22; 21:9; 22:42,43; John 4:29; 7:40-42

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Verse 24
But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.
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when
9:34; Mark 3:22; Luke 11:15
Beelzebub
Gr. Beelzebul, and so.

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Verse 25
And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
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Jesus
9:4; Psalms 139:2; Jeremiah 17:10; Amos 4:13; Mark 2:8; John 2:24,25; 21:17; 1 Corinthians 2:11; Hebrews 4:13; Revelation 2:23
Every kingdom
Isaiah 9:21; 19:2,3; Mark 3:23-26; Luke 11:17,18; Galatians 5:15; Revelation 16:19; Revelation 17:16,17

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Verse 26
And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
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his
John 12:31; 14:30; 16:11; 2 Corinthians 4:4; Colossians 1:13; 1 John 5:19; Revelation 9:11; Revelation 12:9; 16:10; 20:2,3

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Verse 27
And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.
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Beelzebub
by whom
Mark 9:38,39; Luke 9:49,50; 11:19; Acts 19:13-16
they
12:41,42; Luke 19:22; Romans 3:19

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Verse 28
But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
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I cast
18; Mark 16:17; Luke 11:20; Acts 10:38
then
6:33; 21:31,43; Isaiah 9:6,7; Daniel 2:44; 7:14; Mark 1:15; 11:10; Luke 1:32,33; 9:2; 10:11; 11:20; 16:16; 17:20,21; Romans 14:17; Colossians 1:13; Hebrews 12:28

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Verse 29
Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.
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Isaiah 49:24; 53:12; Mark 3:27; Luke 11:21,22; 1 John 3:8; 4:4; Revelation 12:7-10; Revelation 20:1-3,7-9

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Verse 30
He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
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that is
6:24; Joshua 5:13; 24:15; 1 Chronicles 12:17,18; Mark 9:40; Luke 9:50; 11:23; 2 Corinthians 6:15,16; 1 John 2:19; Revelation 3:15,16
gathereth
Genesis 49:10; Hosea 1:11; John 11:52

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Verse 31
Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
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All
Isaiah 1:18; 55:7; Ezekiel 33:11; 1 Timothy 1:13-15; Hebrews 6:4; *etc:; Hebrews 10:26,29; 1 John 1:9; 2:1,2
blasphemy
Blasphemy, [blasphemia (blasfhmiða)] either from [ ()] to hurt, or blast the reputation, or from [ ()] to smite with words, or reports, when applied to men denotes injurious speaking, or calumny, and when used in reference to God signifies speaking impiously of his nature, attributes, and works.
but
Mark 3:28-30; Luke 12:10; Acts 7:51; 1 John 5:16

Verse 32
And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
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whosoever
11:19; 13:55; Luke 7:34; 23:34; John 7:12,52; Acts 3:14,15,19; Acts 26:9-11; 1 Timothy 1:13,15
but
John 7:39; Hebrews 6:4-6; 10:26-29
it shall not
Job 36:13; Mark 3:29; Luke 16:23-26

[kimmytree]

no, no offence taken.
yes, we agree on that. and i see your resoning. but it plainly states that if you have one or more god before you that you are destined for hell. it's the only unforgivable sin.

Yes, I'm aware the Bible clearly states that. But who's to say that's not something meant to be taken literally? You cant pick and choose dear.

You mean paganism? Do you know what book of the Bible mentions that? I think it's somewhere in the Old Testament. In that case (hahah it's almost like I'm siding w/ the Jews on this one), Christianity is almost like paganism. Even though Jesus, the Holy Ghost, and God are one, they are still in a sense three different things that are worshiped; God being the Father, and Jesus being the Son / Messiah. Even though in some places the Bible says that the Father and Son are one, there are other verses that make you think the exact opposite.

Gahhhh that's alot of info you copy and pasted. I honestly dont think anyone is going to take the time to read all of that.

[cori-catastrophe]

Yes, I'm aware the Bible clearly states that. But who's to say that's not something meant to be taken literally? You cant pick and choose dear.

You mean paganism? Do you know what book of the Bible mentions that? I think it's somewhere in the Old Testament. In that case (hahah it's almost like I'm siding w/ the Jews on this one), Christianity is almost like paganism. Even though Jesus, the Holy Ghost, and God are one, they are still in a sense three different things that are worshiped; God being the Father, and Jesus being the Son / Messiah. Even though in some places the Bible says that the Father and Son are one, there are other verses that make you think the exact opposite.

Gahhhh that's alot of info you copy and pasted. I honestly dont think anyone is going to take the time to read all of that.

it's a thing called faith.
i'm not picking and choosing.
the father, son, and holy ghost are all god, only in different forms. you worship god in christianity, and if they're all god, you worship all of them.
could you please post the verses that say otherwise?
yes, i did. everyone likes historical facts.
but maybe people are just lazy. i read all of it.

[NoSex]

it's a thing called faith.

Faith is not permissible in meaningful debate, dummy.

[cori-catastrophe]

Faith is not permissible in meaningful debate, dummy.

i don't see why not. it's a debate about the chirstian religion, which faith is a majority of, dummy.

[kimmytree]

i don't see why not. it's a debate about the chirstian religion, which faith is a majority of, dummy.

Well, a debate is usually more of a logical discussion... soooo.

Anyone can have faith in anything. Heck, I could have faith that Scientology is THE religion. But without factual proof, I would have no way of proving myself. See? Faith isnt enough to prove or debate something.

[cori-catastrophe]

Well, a debate is usually more of a logical discussion... soooo.

Anyone can have faith in anything. Heck, I could have faith that Scientology is THE religion. But without factual proof, I would have no way of proving myself. See? Faith isnt enough to prove or debate something.

ayy, but you can use faith to back yourself up. i see. that's logical.

I'll edit this in a few minutes with the verses - I'm supposed to be studying right now.

Well, sometimes in the Bible it says that the Father and the Son are the same person, and then other times it gives the impression that they arent the same person at all. If Jesus really was God in human form, then why would he pray to God? If he really was God, then he was just talking to himself. And why would he do things because his father told him to do so? That doesnt make much sense, now does it?

[sorry about the double post]

where's the verses?

Did somebody say faith?

woooow. someone has too much time on their hands.

GOD HATES FAGS

ahh. i see your copying the most hated family in america. how original.

[Simba]

woooow. someone has too much time on their hands.

Actually, the FSM argument against the teaching of intelligent design wasn't half bad. Look into it. There's a reason why it's become so popular among atheists and agnostics.

[cori-catastrophe]

Actually, the FSM argument against the teaching of intelligent design wasn't half bad. Look into it. There's a reason why it's become so popular among atheists and agnostics.

because they'd rather believe in non-sense instead of god.
i really love how some atheists use excuses and try to change the subject rather than backing themselves up with facts and proof. notice i said some.
they say they don't believe in god because there's no proof because they've never met him. have they met a spaghetti monster?
i'm so confused now.

[kimmytree]

because they'd rather believe in non-sense instead of god.
i really love how some atheists use excuses and try to change the subject rather than backing themselves up with facts and proof. notice i said some.
they say they don't believe in god because there's no proof because they've never met him. have they met a spaghetti monster?
i'm so confused now.

Have you ever met God? Unless you actually have, you can neither prove or disprove he exists. In that sense, Athiesm is no more ridiculous than Christianity.

But that's why I'm Agnostic. I dont think we as humans will EVER be able to prove or disprove the existance of a God. Besides, who cares? There's so much more to life.

[cori-catastrophe]

Have you ever met God? Unless you actually have, you can neither prove or disprove he exists. In that sense, Athiesm is no more ridiculous than Christianity.

But that's why I'm Agnostic. I dont think we as humans will EVER be able to prove or disprove the existance of a God. Besides, who cares? There's so much more to life.

no one has exept the people that have died and risen.

christians have proof rather than excuses.
if we do exist, there are only two possible explanations as to how our existence came to be. either we had a beginning or we did not have a beginning. the bible says, "in the beginning god created the heaven and the earth"[genesis 1 :1].
most atheists maintain that there was no beginning. the idea is that matter has always existed in the form of either matter or energy. and all that has happened is that matter has been changed from form to form, but it has always been. that is a concise statement of the atheist's belief.

if there was no god, how did we get here?
if there was no god, how would everything in the earth be perfect?
if there was no god, how could the earth be the exact distance from the sun to be safe but still non-freezing. the perfect temperature? yes.
if there was no god, how could there be an abundent ammount of hydrogen, which is needed for everday life?
if there was no god, what would our purpose in life be?
is all this a coincidence?

http://www.allaboutcreation.org/proof-of-god.htm

[kimmytree]

^ Those are all valid points. I'm not trying to disprove the existance of God though. I'm 99% sure there IS one. But still, we can never be absolutely certain.

no one has exept the people that have died and risen.

Exactly. Have any of us died and risen? No. So how does that validate anything?

christians have proof rather than excuses.

What proof? Faith? That doesnt prove anything dear.
Btw, how is anything that's against Christianity an excuse? What, do you think all non-Christians are blind, and just being rebellious or something?

if there was no god, how did we get here? How did God get here? See, it goes both ways.

if there was no god, how would everything in the earth be perfect? How can you be so certain that the world we live in is perfect? We dont know any different. If God's creation is perfect, then he is perfect. That's what the Bible says anyways, that he indeed is perfect. Well, how did a perfect God get here? You cant answer that, no one can. But its the same argument with evolution - how we got here.

if there was no god, how could the earth be the exact distance from the sun to be safe but still non-freezing. the perfect temperature? yes. By chance. Look at how HUGE our solar system is. Scientists believe we're just a little spec. Same thing with our own Galaxy, we're just a tiny little spec compared to everything else that is out there. There's no telling how many planets are out there. Our planet just has everything needed to sustain life. Do you really think that we're the only form of life? Or, that Earth's the only planet capible of sustaining life? o_O

if there was no god, how could there be an abundent ammount of hydrogen, which is needed for everday life? See answer above.

if there was no god, what would our purpose in life be? Who knows? Ever think that Christianity, or any other religion was created by man to give a sense of purpose to life? You never know. What's the purpose in life for Christians? To worship and satisfy already perfect God?

Not to be rude or anything, but you're a Christian... and you dont even capitalize the most important part of your religion? You believe he's the perfect creator, and sent his son to die for your sins, and you cant take the time to capitalize his name? Show some respect... it's God, not god.

[cori-catastrophe]

^ Those are all valid points. I'm not trying to disprove the existance of God though. I'm 99% sure there IS one. But still, we can never be absolutely certain.
[/size]
Exactly. Have any of us died and risen? No. So how does that validate anything?
[/size]
What proof? Faith? That doesnt prove anything dear.
Btw, how is anything that's against Christianity an excuse? What, do you think all non-Christians are blind, and just being rebellious or something?

if there was no god, how did we get here? [/size]

[size=1]if there was no god, how would everything in the earth be perfect? How can you be so certain that the world we live in is perfect? We dont know any different. If God's creation is perfect, then he is perfect. That's what the Bible says anyways, that he indeed is perfect. Well, how did a perfect God get here? You cant answer that, no one can. But its the same argument with evolution - how we got here.

if there was no god, how could the earth be the exact distance from the sun to be safe but still non-freezing. the perfect temperature? yes. By chance. Look at how HUGE our solar system is. Scientists believe we're just a little spec. Same thing with our own Galaxy, we're just a tiny little spec compared to everything else that is out there. There's no telling how many planets are out there. Our planet just has everything needed to sustain life. Do you really think that we're the only form of life? Or, that Earth's the only planet capible of sustaining life? o_O

if there was no god, how could there be an abundent ammount of hydrogen, which is needed for everday life? See answer above.

if there was no god, what would our purpose in life be? Who knows? Ever think that Christianity, or any other religion was created by man to give a sense of purpose to life? You never know. What's the purpose in life for Christians? To worship and satisfy already perfect God?

Not to be rude or anything, but you're a Christian... and you dont even capitalize the most important part of your religion? You believe he's the perfect creator, and sent his son to die for your sins, and you cant take the time to capitalize his name? Show some respect... it's God, not god.

i love sarcasm.
to start, i don't capitalize his name because my caps lock button is broken and i don't feel like going out and buying another laptop, nor do i have the money to get it fixed.
what's it matter to you? you're agnostic. you don't worship him.
let's see here.
you're right. none of us have died and risen, so what was the point of asking that question in the first place if you were actually looking for an answer?
i didn't say that everyone was making exuses, did i? it's just that lots of times, people want to change the subject or make excuses when it comes to subjects like this. or when someone actually proves them wrong and they don't want to believe the facts taht are right in front of their noses.
http://www.doesgodexist.org/Phamplets/WhoC...CreatedGod.html
that explains who created god and how he got there, not here. a mistake on your part.
everything in the world is perfect. if the earth was in a different location, we'd all die within seconds. and you tell me that's just a chance of coincidence? how gullible are you?
the purpose of everyone's life, not just christians, is to worship and praise the almighty god. and to spread his news.
seriously though, if we didn't have a purpose, why would we exist? why would we be here? there would be no need for us to. it'd just be a waste.
i believe there is a god. i believe he's not silent. he speaks loud and clear to those who believe. that's the price of admission: faith. it doesn't have to be a robust, mature faith at the start, but a sincere willingness to believe is usually rewarded with increasing confidence.