The Problem of Evil, Another Theological Problem Options

[Simba]

The "problem of evil" is an argument against the existence of an omnipotent, omni-benevolent God. Basically, this proposes that an omnipotent and omni-benevolent God and evil existing in our world contradict and that because there is clearly evil in the world, God cannot exist.

The logical problem of evil argument, I personally think, does the best job of making what the problem of evil is proposing clear.

1. God exists. (premise)
2. God is omnipotent. (premise - or true by definition of the word 'God')
3. God is all-benevolent. (premise - or true by definition)
4. All-benevolent beings are opposed to all evil. (premise - or true by definition)
5. All-benevolent beings who can eliminate evil will do so immediately when they become aware of it. (premise)
6. God is opposed to all evil. (conclusion from 3 and 4)
7. God can eliminate evil completely and immediately. (conclusion from 2)

1. Whatever the end result of suffering is, God can bring it about by ways which do not include suffering. (conclusion from 2)
2. God has no reason not to eliminate evil. (conclusion from 7.1)
3. God has no reason not to act immediately. (conclusion from 5)

8. God will eliminate evil completely and immediately. (conclusion from 6, 7.2 and 7.3)
9. Evil exists, has existed, and probably will always exist. (premise)
10. Items 8 and 9 are contradictory; therefore, one or more of the premises is false: either God does not exist, or he is not both omnipotent and all-benevolent or there is a reason why He does not act immediately.

On the flip side, one of the most popular defenses is proposed by Augustine of Hippo, a Christian, which basically goes that evil is only the complete deprivation of good.

I personally think that argument is relatively weak, so I'll also throw in the free will argument (which basically states that God gave us free will as to not have us as "mindless robots") just to have the topic start out somewhat neutral.

1. Free will requires the potential to so anything one chooses. (premise, or by definition)
2. Thus, free will requires the potential to do evil.
3. Thus, removing the potential to do evil would remove free will.

Discuss.

[sweetangel2128]

Funny. I was actually having this discussion with my boyfriend today on the Yin Yang theory. They believe that Yin & Yang are the balance of Good & Evil and my boyfriend came to the conclusion that without one or the other, the world would be chaotic.

I believe in God and yes he does exist but just because he's all powerful doesn't imply that there can't be Evil. There can be because of the Devil...evil is created by the Devil not God. And since he gives all free will, if he stopped things from happening, it would no longer be free will.

[Simba]

Funny. I was actually having this discussion with my boyfriend today on the Yin Yang theory. They believe that Yin & Yang are the balance of Good & Evil and my boyfriend came to the conclusion that without one or the other, the world would be chaotic.

Well, what do you personally think about the Yin & Yang theory?

I believe in God and yes he does exist but just because he's all powerful doesn't imply that there can't be Evil.

Right-o, but it's not his all powerful-ness that implies that there can't be evil, it's his omni-benevolence that implies that there can't be evil.

There can be because of the Devil...evil is created by the Devil not God. And since he gives all free will, if he stopped things from happening, it would no longer be free will.

The "Devil" is practically irrelevant here. If the "Devil" was affecting God's creations in a way that God does not approve, He should easily be able to rid of the Devil (due to his omnipotence).

However, there can still be free will without the "Devil".

[sweetangel2128]

Well, what do you personally think about the Yin & Yang theory?Right-o, but it's not his all powerful-ness that implies that there can't be evil, it's his omni-benevolence that implies that there can't be evil.The "Devil" is practically irrelevant here. If the "Devil" was affecting God's creations in a way that God does not approve, He should easily be able to rid of the Devil (due to his omnipotence).

However, there can still be free will without the "Devil".

Personally, I really don't know much about the Yin & Yang theory until I studied it today. It is basically believed as I said to be the balance between good and evil. Other then that I can't really say.

Explain to me what omni-benevolence is?

No, because if God were to rid of the Devil no one would have a choice in following God or the Devil because he wouldn't exist therefore free will wouldn't really exist, we'd all be taught to follow God but if the Devil was destroyed there would be no evil in our world because it's the devil who created evil in the first place so if he didn't exist, everything would be good and like I said before everyone would follow God but since he gave us free will, we can choose evil over good if we wanted to.

How come no one else is responding to this? LOL.

[Simba]

Explain to me what omni-benevolence is?

Omni-benevolence is the property of being absolutely, and perfectly good.

Evil: In religion and ethics, evil refers to the morally objectionable aspects of the behaviour and reasoning of human beings — those which are deliberately void of conscience, and show a wanton penchant for destruction. Evil is sometimes defined as the absence of a good which could and should be present; the absence of which is a void in what should be.

So, I guess "good" and "evil" will have to be defined here.

Well, I think it would be wise to give Augustine a little credit. He was a philosopher and theologian. Was he not? No, seriously. I could be wrong. I don't know much about him.

Yeah, Augustine was a philosopher and theologian, and mostly known as a saint.

Firstly, God exists out of time. He dwells in eternity. What is eternity? Anything not bound by time and space, really. So, we have a time line for example. Eternity can't be measure, but for the sake of our own sanity, I'll just put a timeline.

|ETERNITY--------------------------------------|TIME-AND-SPACE|-ETERNITY--------------|

When God is confronted with evil in the Bible, it cannot be present for long. The devil is evil, because he is prideful. He was the most beautiful angel in Heaven, and he thought he was as good as God. What does this tell us. Angels at least had free will. So, the presence of free will determines that evil must be present also.

No, because if God were to rid of the Devil no one would have a choice in following God or the Devil because he wouldn't exist therefore free will wouldn't really exist, we'd all be taught to follow God but if the Devil was destroyed there would be no evil in our world because it's the devil who created evil in the first place so if he didn't exist, everything would be good and like I said before everyone would follow God but since he gave us free will, we can choose evil over good if we wanted to.

So, I suppose you're saying God's choice of giving us free will would be the reason He does not act immediately in ridding evil? (Which would answer the logical problem of evil.)

[sweetangel2128]

So, I suppose you're saying God's choice of giving us free will would be the reason He does not act immediately in ridding evil? (Which would answer the logical problem of evil.)

Well, that's what I guess. I mean it makes total sense because afterall he is powerful and can do anything with snap of his fingers but he chooses not to. But like I said if the Devil didn't exist, evil wouldn't exist because the Devil is what created Evil from the beginning.

[Simba]

Well, that's what I guess. I mean it makes total sense because afterall he is powerful and can do anything with snap of his fingers but he chooses not to. But like I said if the Devil didn't exist, evil wouldn't exist because the Devil is what created Evil from the beginning.

There doesn't need to be a Devil in order for there to be evil. Evil (here, I'll go with the definition most regarded to by humans, which could be translated to suffering) pretty much comes with the free will bundle.

By the "Devil" I assume you would follow the story that Jake described, saying that the Devil was prideful and such?

[sweetangel2128]

There doesn't need to be a Devil in order for there to be evil. Evil (here, I'll go with the definition most regarded to by humans, which could be translated to suffering) pretty much comes with the free will bundle.

By the "Devil" I assume you would follow the story that Jake described, saying that the Devil was prideful and such?

I follow the story of the Bible and what it says about the Devil. The serpent tricked Eve into eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil so by eating that she brought sin into our world but the Devil was the one who created evil like I said in the first place. If the Devil hadn't of existed they wouldn't of eaten from the tree, sin wouldn't exist and neither would evil.

[Simba]

I follow the story of the Bible and what it says about the Devil. The serpent tricked Eve into eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil so by eating that she brought sin into our world but the Devil was the one who created evil like I said in the first place. If the Devil hadn't of existed they wouldn't of eaten from the tree, sin wouldn't exist and neither would evil.

You didn't answer my question. Do you or do you not believe that...

The devil is evil, because he is prideful. He was the most beautiful angel in Heaven, and he thought he was as good as God. What does this tell us. Angels at least had free will. So, the presence of free will determines that evil must be present also.

What I'm trying to get at is that if you follow that the Devil was once the beautiful angel in Heaven and became prideful and thought of himself equivalent to God (showing that angels at least had free will), then "evil" would have originated from free will, not from the Devil.

[sweetangel2128]

You didn't answer my question. Do you or do you not believe that...
What I'm trying to get at is that if you follow that the Devil was once the beautiful angel in Heaven and became prideful and thought of himself equivalent to God (showing that angels at least had free will), then "evil" would have originated from free will, not from the Devil.

Oh okay I get what your saying now but I honestly do not know how to answer that since I always believed it's the Devil that caused evil. Yes, he was a beautiful angel, he wanted God's power and tried to throw God off his own throne but was banished from Heaven and since that happend he's been the cause of evil. So in a sense yes we had free will but evil wasn't created until lucifer was casted out of Heaven.

Ps: other angels were banished also not just the devil but the devil is the one that is talked about the most because he's the one that thought he was higher than God and tried to take over.